Michael Voris & 'Church Militant' on Purgatory

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

umm, no. This is not an example of the Church “pushing” private revelation but rather a Pope showing how certain revelations impact his spiritual life. VERY different.

The church never has, and never will, state that a person must practice ANY private revelation for salvation.

 

[Techno2000]

The church never has, and never will, state that a person must practice ANY private revelation for salvation.

Ture, but if you go to Mass on Sunday, April 8 ( Divine Mercy Sunday) this year and go to confession you will be helped in your salvation.

 

[Gorgias]

If you say the Rosary you are doing something that came from Private revelation.

Absolutely. But… you wouldn’t claim that the rosary is what determines the Deposit of the Faith, right? That seems to be @1Lord1Faith’s claim.

 

[Gorgias]

I am aware, thanks for that. Have fun behind your wall.

My ‘wall’ is the teachings of the Church. Thanks… I do have fun inside the Church’s teachings, and also enjoy reminding folks that the things that the Church doesn’t teach are, in fact, not things that the Church holds as necessary to the faith.

 

[Gorgias]

if you go to Mass on Sunday, April 8 ( Divine Mercy Sunday) this year and go to confession you will be helped in your salvation.

Umm… no? Divine Mercy Sunday is helpful; but Divine Mercy doesn’t save sinners. (It just helps those who are already in a state of grace avoid the temporal punishment due to sin, and – with luck – convinces those who are in a state of mortal sin to make recourse to the sacraments to be absolved of their sin. Of course, one doesn’t need Divine Mercy Sunday to go to confession. )

 

[Gorgias]

The church itself is “pushing” private revelation.

Let’s be fair. The Church doesn’t “push” private revelation. On the other hand, there are private revelations that the Church endorses… and there are definitely things that are claimed to be private revelation that the Church doesn’t endorse!

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t know why there is so much resistance to private revelation, I find them fascinating and enlightening .

Good on you, then!

However, the very nature of ‘private revelation’ is such is that it’s not necessary for salvation. For those who accept the private revelation(s) that the Church endorses – great! For those who do not accept the private revelation that the Church endorses – still good, 'cause they can be saved without them! On the other hand, for those who claim that the private revelations that the Church doesn’t endorse are necessary (or even praiseworthy) to accept… no!

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Salvation? No. Your Salvation is through Jesus. You can be helped with removing temporal punishment due to sins…but that’s not salvation.

 

[Techno2000]

Absolutely. But… you wouldn’t claim that the rosary is what determines the Deposit of the Faith, right? That seems to be @1Lord1Faith’s claim.

Yes, that is right.

 

[Techno2000]

Umm… no? Divine Mercy Sunday is helpful; but Divine Mercy doesn’t save sinners. (It just helps those who are already in a state of grace avoid the temporal punishment due to sin, and – with luck – convinces those who are in a state of mortal sin to make recourse to the sacraments to be absolved of their sin. Of course, one doesn’t need Divine Mercy Sunday to go to confession. )

All I’m saying is that private revelation is fully incorporated in the Catholic church… that’s it.

 

[Techno2000]

Salvation? No. Your Salvation is through Jesus. You can be helped with removing temporal punishment due to sins…but that’s not salvation.

Yes, I know that… thanks.

 

[Gorgias]

All I’m saying is that private revelation is fully incorporated in the Catholic church… that’s it.

No: private revelation that is endorsed by the Church is incorporated into the life of the Church, and only as praiseworthy, not necessary. Big difference, there.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

All I’m saying is that private revelation is fully incorporated in the Catholic church… that’s it.

No: private revelation that is endorsed by the Church is incorporated into the life of the Church, and only as praiseworthy, not necessary. Big difference, there.

Ok , I can go with that … thanks

 

[TMC]

No one who is interested in learning the Catholic faith should listen to Voris. His own bishop asked him to stop referring to his programs as Catholic, which pretty much tells you what you need to know.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Gorgias:

Techno2000:

All I’m saying is that private revelation is fully incorporated in the Catholic church… that’s it.

No: private revelation that is endorsed by the Church is incorporated into the life of the Church, and only as praiseworthy, not necessary. Big difference, there.

Ok , I can go with that … thanks

Wow, you just had to correct Techno2000 didn’t you @Gorgias, even though you probably knew full well what he was saying.

 

[Bookworm77]

No one who is interested in learning the Catholic faith should listen to Voris. His own bishop asked him to stop referring to his programs as Catholic, which pretty much tells you what you need to know.

Good concrete information, thanks!
So Captain Voris is out on a limb then…

This topic seems to have “gone viral” LOL
It seems that the can of worms has indeed been opened.

Peace and God bless you all.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Umm… no? Divine Mercy Sunday is helpful; but Divine Mercy doesn’t save sinners

Salvation? No. Your Salvation is through Jesus. You can be helped with removing temporal punishment due to sins…but that’s not salvation.

I can’t believe you two are implying that Techno2000 doesn’t know that the goal post of salvation is Jesus. What on earth makes you two think that others’ private revelation doesn’t bring people to Jesus, thus playing an integral role in their salvation. Those views are so myopic, and smack of a converts inability to let go of their “salvation comes through Jesus alone” attitude.

I’ve never encountered such disdain and push back on private revelations before. A hubristic attitude of espousing private revelation as irrelevant to all but the receiver.

I’ll just remind you of one thing. JPll and many of the world’s bishops consecrated the world and specifically Russia based on a private revelation. How many souls do you think were saved because of it, or was it irrelevant to all but Sr. Lucia.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I can’t believe you two are implying that Techno2000 doesn’t know that the goal post of salvation is Jesus. What on earth makes you two think that others’ private revelation doesn’t bring people to Jesus, thus playing an integral role in their salvation. Those views are so myopic, and smack of a converts inability to let go of their “salvation comes through Jesus alone” attitude.

I’ve never encountered such disdain and push back on private revelations before. A hubristic attitude of espousing private revelation as irrelevant to all but the receiver.

I’ll just remind you of one thing. JPll and many of the world’s bishops consecrated the world and specifically Russia based on a private revelation. How many souls do you think were saved because of it, or was it irrelevant to all but Sr. Lucia.

I don’t see where Techno or I said that private revelation isn’t helpful, or even integral to the faith life of some.

Lashing out at us doesn’t change the fact that private revelation isn’t necessary for salvation. That’s all we are saying.

It’s not myopic at all to acknowledge that the private revelation practices of the faith are option and for some, it really helps take the pressure off. Like I mentioned, there have been quite a few Facebook/twitter messages that make those who don’t care to participate in the 100th anniversary of Fatima into some sort of social pariahs.

I can’t speak for Techo but I can say for myself I think that it’s wonderful that the Pope found comfort and heeded private revelation. However, I am glad that is an equally valid option for me to say “that’s not for me”

That’s all I’m saying. I WANT the freedom to reject private revelation and the Church respects that. It really sounds like you do not want to give me the kind of choice that the Church itself does.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

It’s not myopic at all to acknowledge that the private revelation practices of the faith are option and for some, it really helps take the pressure off. Like I mentioned, there have been quite a few Facebook/twitter messages that make those who don’t care to participate in the 100th anniversary of Fatima into some sort of social pariahs.

Don’t dump your Facebook and Twitter baggage on other people.

That’s all I’m saying. I WANT the freedom to reject private revelation and the Church respects that. It really sounds like you do not want to give me the kind of choice that the Church itself does.

Maybe you should read through this thread again. You and @Gorgias jumped at the opportunity to take swings at mine and @Techno2000 posts about private revelation, which had nothing to do with pushing you or anyone else to accept it or else.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Don’t dump your Facebook and Twitter baggage on other people.

Look, it’s out there. People ARE pushing it too far. What about that don’t you want to accept? It isn’t just my facebook…the post has been shared thousands of times…that’s thousands of facebooks and hundreds of people who are being falsely shamed for not being into private revelation.

Maybe you should read through this thread again. You and @Gorgias jumped at the opportunity to take swings at mine and @Techno2000 posts about private revelation, which had nothing to do with pushing you or anyone else to accept it or else.

Many of your statements were very open to interpretation. It took you half a page to concede what is a basic tenet of the church–that the Bible is public revelation, which you did grudgingly.

This is rather concerning. Being able to discern the difference between public and private revelation is key to understanding what is key to the Catholic faith and what is supplemental to it. You have regularly confused what is doctrine and what is private and up to people to determine whether or not they believe.