Michele Bachmann signed marriage pact suggesting black families were better off during slavery

[gilliam]

exnihilo,

Yes there was rampent racism in the north. No one is saying anything different are they?

I for one will not defend it. I also see no reason to try to defend southern slavery either. Slavery is a vile and horrendous institution, and racism is a vile and horrendous practice.

 

[gilliam]

I’ll just add to the fun of this conversation by stating the fact that chattel slavery in the United States was created by a black man.

I don’t really understand the point you are trying to make. Want to make it clearer and chattel slavery existed before a black man came to the contenent.

Dutch traders brought 20 Africans to Jamestown, Virginia, as early as 1619 where the trader’s black?

 

[exnihilo]

How’s this: State v. Mann, (as it would have been identified within North Carolina), is a decision in which the Supreme Court of North Carolina ruled that slaveowners had absolute authority over their slaves and could not be found guilty of committing violence against them.

You seem to be grasping for facts to make your case without considering them fully. I have to admit that I’m not familiar with either of the cases you cited. But I went to trusty wikipedia and found out more info that hurts your position:

In 1829, Elizabeth Jones, who owned a slave named Lydia, hired her out for a year to John Mann of Chowan County. Mann shot and wounded Lydia when she struggled to escape a whipping. Mann was found guilty of battery by a jury of twelve white men drawn from his community and the court (Superior Court Judge Joseph J. Daniel) imposed a five dollar fine. The North Carolina Supreme Court overruled the conviction on the grounds that slaves were the absolute property of their owners who could not be punished at common law unless the legislature authorized such punishment.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_v._Mann

So the facts are a Mann, who was borrowing a slave, shot the slave when disciplining the slave. Twelve white men, in the racist White southern courts, found him guilty of a crime. That fact works against your ‘de facto’ argument, at least in terms of the will of the people, the peers.

The judgment of the state supreme court was written by Judge Thomas Ruffin, who stated that “the power of the master must be absolute, to render the submission of the slave perfect”, but noted that slaves did have legal right of protection from persons other than their owners. Ruffin, however, made it clear that his opinion was a legal one, and that his sympathy lay with Lydia. He wrote that “the struggle, too, in the Judge’s own breast between the feelings of the man, and the duty of the magistrate is a severe one, presenting strong temptation to put aside such questions, if it be possible. It is useless however, to complain of things inherent in our political state. And it is criminal in a court to avoid any responsibility which the laws impose.”

The court case shows White juries in NC would convict Whites of hurting slaves. The judge said he sympathized with the slave. But the ruling was that masters must be able to administer discipline to maintain order.

All authority is ultimately by force. The government doesn’t ask me to pay taxes and ignore me if I dont. If I dont pay they send guys with guns to come drag me to a prison cell. If I resist they can and will use deadly force to compel my compliance.

 

[RACJ]

What has that have to do with them coming together and actually working together?

Yes one side believes in a large federal government. But the other believes in big business, which then (usually, some play it clean) leads to big business ‘contributing’ funds to get a MUCH larger voice in our democratic republic. And I have yet to see either side tell the truth, sigh politics.

Wall Street and most billionaires supported Democrats and Obama in '08. Notice how some billionaires such as Immelt, who plays ball with Obama, reaps the rewards and pays no taxes. And Soros, the evil currency-breaking tycoon, supports BHO through hundreds of different groups. 
 As a rule, I have no problem with extremely wealthy people, since THEY are the ones who create wealth, NOT big government. No guy making ten bucks an hour is going to hire me. :rolleyes: Rob

 

[Tabooo]

Let me guess, you just approve of the Democrats who disapprove of it, who turn around and agree with Democrats who do approve of it?

I truthfully don’t approve of either party, so I would ask you to kept your judgments to yourself.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I don’t really understand the point you are trying to make. Want to make it clearer and chattel slavery existed before a black man came to the contenent.

Chattel slavery has been with humanity since its inception. It is a creation of the Adversary. How’s that. Well, with exception to Paul referring to himself as a slave to Christ…but I’ll get off the topic.

 

[gilliam]

You seem to be grasping for facts to make your case without considering them fully. I have to admit that I’m not familiar with either of the cases you cited. But I went to trusty wikipedia and found out more info that hurts your position:

State v. Mann is a state supreme court case that sets precidence that the ultimate authority for a slave is his master.
The US Supreme court ended up saying something similar in Dred Scott

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Wall Street and most billionaires supported Democrats and Obama in '08. Notice how some billionaires such as Immelt, who plays ball with Obama, reaps the rewards and pays no taxes. And Soros, the evil currency-breaking tycoon, supports BHO through hundreds of different groups.
As a rule, I have no problem with extremely wealthy people, since THEY are the ones who create wealth, NOT big government. No guy making ten bucks an hour is going to hire me. Rob

I heard a guy named Bill Britt say, “Broke people can only teach broke people how to be broke people.” How are we improving society by making more people broke?

 

[exnihilo]

Yes there was rampent racism in the north. No one is saying anything different are they?

I for one will not defend it. I also see no reason to try to defend southern slavery either. Slavery is a vile and horrendous institution, and racism is a vile and horrendous practice.

This topic has touched on slavery and the war. Some claim the evil South was rightfully defeated by the righteous North who loved Blacks and considered them equal. According to the story the North wanted them to be able to live freely and equally with Whites. That narrative doesn’t make sense when you look at they myriad laws in place in the North or events surrounding the war.

But no, no one is really saying the North wasn’t racist because many spend all their effort on citing instances of southern misdeeds .

 

[Tabooo]

Wall Street and most billionaires supported Democrats and Obama in '08. Notice how some billionaires such as Immelt, who plays ball with Obama, reaps the rewards and pays no taxes. And Soros, the evil currency-breaking tycoon, supports BHO through hundreds of different groups.
As a rule, I have no problem with extremely wealthy people, since THEY are the ones who create wealth, NOT big government. No guy making ten bucks an hour is going to hire me. Rob

I saying that it seems to me that neither side seems to keep the people sovereign. I don’t approve of either of them.

 

[gilliam]

This topic has touched on slavery and the war. Some claim the evil South was rightfully defeated by the righteous North who loved Blacks and considered them equal. According to the story the North wanted them to be able to live freely and equally with Whites. That narrative doesn’t make sense when you look at they myriad laws in place in the North or events surrounding the war.
.

It is also not historically correct. It was not the prevalent view in the north. There were abolitionists in the north with that view, but they were by far the minority. A great fear in the big cities of the north was that freed blacks would take jobs from recent immigrants and other working class citizens. That is why the Democratic Party still had some sway during the war years. Even after the war, there was a lot of racism in the north.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

It is also not historically correct. It was not the prevalent view in the north. There were abolitionists in the north with that view, but they were by far the minority. A great fear in the big cities of the north was that freed blacks would take jobs from recent immigrants and other working class citizens. That is why the Democratic Party still had some sway during the war years. Even after the war, there was a lot of racism in the north.

Was? Boston is one of the most racist cities in America. Certain parts of New York are worse. Ending racism can only come about through education, not by the stroke of a pen or at the point of a bayonet.

 

[RACJ]

I saying that it seems to me that neither side seems to keep the people sovereign. I don’t approve of either of them.

There are many Republicans whom I dislike; party labels mean little to me. You don't have to love Republicans to recognize that the Democrats play by no rules, and thirst for power. For me, Sarah Palin is the independent thinker and lover of freedom whom America needs. Her husband Todd is an independent for much the same reasons that you cite, that many Republicans are only interested in their turf, and grab what they can get while in office. :onpatrol: Rob

 

[Tabooo]

There are many Republicans whom I dislike; party labels mean little to me. You don’t have to love Republicans to recognize that the Democrats play by no rules, and thirst for power. For me, Sarah Palin is the independent thinker and lover of freedom whom America needs. Her husband Todd is an independent for much the same reasons that you cite, that many Republicans are only interested in their turf, and grab what they can get while in office. npatrol: Rob

I’m glad we have similar opinions then!

 

[Darryl1958]

Trust me, I don’t agree with abortion one bit, so I’m not approving of Democrats who approve of it.

Trust me. Anyone who values their PhD over life of a fetus is not in a position to call others on their lack of compassion,

As long as the Party of Death delivers the goodies to them and their mommys, and in the meantime the Party of Death continues laws to suck the brains out of fetuses, any arguments that it is conservatives who are colblooded supporters of Rand and selfishness end up sound a little stale indeed,

You have no truck and trade with the abortion cause, Good for you.
There is no reason to snipe and sarcastically mock any of us who have your back on the issue either then.

 

[estesbob]

The assertion that there were more two parent black families under slavery is correct:

*However, as classic work by Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman *
*has shown, despite the horrors of slavery, overall, during *
*the pre-emancipation era, about two-thirds of enslaved families had two *
parents-far more than today

tnr.com/article/politics/91931/michele-bachmann-rick-santorum-slavery-families

 

[Arkadin]

Well, let’s go back to enslaving them then in order to fix their problems.

 

[SamH]

Well, let’s go back to enslaving them then in order to fix their problems.

That wasn’t the claim either. But if you can’t understand that there’s no point in trying to explain it to you.

 

[estesbob]

Well, let’s go back to enslaving them then in order to fix their problems.

It is not an either or proposition. . Stopping the slaughter of 400,000 black children a year and strengthening the black family is not contingent upon reinstituting slavery.