Michigan court says companies don’t have to serve customers who are gay

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

signit

New member
article
Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel plans to fight a court determination that businesses may, under state law, choose not to serve customers who are gay.

State Court of Claims Judge Christopher M. Murray in a summary judgement this week ruled that Michigan’s definitive anti-discrimination law, the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act of 1976 (ELCRA), doesn’t include protections for sexual orientation. The same ruling found that it does, however, protect based on sexual identity.

[edit]

What Murray’s ruling didn’t address is how religious freedoms might impact a business’ right to discriminate against transgender customers.

Kallman said religious beliefs are at the heart of the discrimination incidents.
Click to expand...
The decision in full:

decision
 
Last edited:
puer.dei said:
I hope they’ll put up signs to that effect, so that reasonable people will know not to patronize them.
Click to expand...
Sign in the window or not, I’m sure businesses with such a policy will be quickly identified and the word will get around.
 
Zacc said:
Hopefully they will never endorse the treatment of Matthew Shepard
Click to expand...
I don’t know of a single person that thinks Matthew Shepard was treated well, much less anyone that endorses such treatment. And I’m quite certain nobody would defend the “right” to treat anyone like he was treated.

This kind of inflammatory comparison is why it is so difficult to have reasonable discussions. It is either full on evil, horrendous acts or complete acceptance. The fact that nobody wants to even be in the middle ground is why we are at such odds today.
 
Suudy said:
I don’t know of a single person that thinks Matthew Shepard was treated well, much less anyone that endorses such treatment.
Click to expand...
Except those who commit such acts, and those who do not raise their voice in condemnation. And those, who say: “There are good people… on both sides!” There are no “good people” among the skinheads.
First they came for the Jews… but I did not say anything, because I was not a Jew…
Click to expand...
Continue, if you remember.
 
So not allowing a same sex wedding on religious grounds is morally equivalent to killing Matthew Shepard? Is that your point?

@Suudy is correct…these kinds of equivalencies make reasoned discussion impossible.
 
I had a discussion some years ago on this forum about Michigan. If I recall correctly, someone tried to sue a cake maker there. But since there is no protection based on someone’s sexualuality the case was dismissed fairly quickly.
 
Zacc said:
Except those who commit such acts, and those who do not raise their voice in condemnation. And those, who say: “There are good people… on both sides!” There are no “good people” among the skinheads.
Click to expand...
And nobody said anything of this nature either.

In fact, we should not forget, Spencer who organized the Charlottesville event endorsed Biden.
 
Last edited:
The court ruling highlighted a loophole that allows businesses to discriminate against sexual orientation but not gender identity. The Michigan AG is challenging the ruling and hopefully will get that loophole closed.
 
No…that is the leap that Zacc took…I was seeking clarification.

the OP is about a case where a business didn’t want to rent their facilities for a same sex wedding, then Zacc brings up Matthew Shepard.

Did you see Zacc’s post?
 
Good. Businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason unless they provide a necessary life sustaining service and there’s not another option readily available.
 
Any reason at all, though?

If a Catholic couple owns a pizza place and a couple sits down and expects to be served, and the owners know they go to another church, should they be allowed to say, “Sorry, we don’t serve non-Catholics here!”?
 
So, you’re ok with businesses deciding they don’t want to deal with Catholics ? Banks can refuse loans. Jewish delis can refuse all Christians. Large department stores don’t have to sell to you? Apple won’t sell you iPhones.

Please think this through a bit more. It sounds like a fine plan when you get to decide but looks a bit different when you’re the one being excluded. I much prefer that any public facing business must serve all the public. No one should be forced to provide a service they don’t already provide but must provide that which is part of their business to everyone.
 
Pattylt said:
So, you’re ok with businesses deciding they don’t want to deal with Catholics ? Banks can refuse loans. Jewish delis can refuse all Christians. Large department stores don’t have to sell to you? Apple won’t sell you iPhones.
Click to expand...
  1. How does a business know my religion?
  2. If a business chooses not to work with a sector of the population, their custom will go elsewhere and the business will close. It is a somewhat self-correcting situation.
 
MikeInVA said:
How does a business know my religion?
Click to expand...
A motel in Georgia knew we were Jewish by our last name when we tried to get…and were refused…a room for the night. Sometimes it’s very easy to guess a religion…is the wife dressed in a chador? Is their last name Finkelstein? Are they wearing a cross? Can they ask?

I wouldn’t assume that discriminatory businesses will go out of business due to lack of customers, either. Many may support them specifically for their discrimination. Chick a Filet had a booming business when the gay community publicly refused to go there and christians showed up in support.

More importantly, do you want to have to worry about doing business with a company at all? I’d much rather just be able to walk into any business and assume I’ll get good service. It’s so much better this way even if some people would prefer I’m not served.
 
Last edited:
Pattylt said:
I wouldn’t assume that discriminatory businesses will go out of business due to lack of customers, either. Many may support them specifically for their discrimination. Chick a Filet had a booming business when the gay community publicly refused to go there and christians showed up in support.
Click to expand...
Chick Fil A never denied service to anyone. People boycotted because of the Christian beliefs of the owners. I am very disappointed with their abandonment of those values in the last year.
Pattylt said:
More importantly, do you want to have to worry about doing business with a company at all?
Click to expand...
Would you really want to have stayed in a hotel where the staff was antisemitic? Since companies today seem to be going out of their way to show their wokeness, I am constantly reevaluating if I really need their products.
 
Last edited:
Yes they should be legally allowed.

As Catholics I don’t think that would be appropriate it though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top