Mike Gendron's non-sequitur

[Bonnie]

For some reason I don’t remember, I get Mike Gendron’s e-mail newsletter. Sometimes I read it. The July newsletter had a line I couldn’t resist commenting on.

Rather than speaking the truth in love with humble teachable spirits, Christians are dismissing one another with arrogant assertions, false accusations, combative disrespect and hateful misrepresentations.

My comment:

So, when are you going to apologize for the “hateful misrepresentations” you have broadcast about the Catholic Church? The picture you draw of the Catholic Church - and by extension, Catholics - is almost entirely something you have made up. Apparently you are not aware of the false statements you have made about the Catholic Church, even though I know people have pointed out these errors to you. I suspect you don’t have a “humble, teachable spirit.”

I feel sorry for you, but I feel even more sorry for the people you entice out of the Church. I will continue to pray for them and for you.

(signed)
Bonnie
Ex-Protestant, Blessed Catholic for 36 years

Gendron’s reply, in full:

Have you been born again?

So my question is: Do I just ignore his non-answer (which, I suspect, might make him think he “won”), or do I reply?

And if I reply, any suggestions as to what to say? I know others here, especially Church Militant, have had “conversations” with Mike Gendron in the past.

One problem I would have with answering his born again question, should I decide to, is that as a Protestant, I was “born again” about a half dozen times, as well as baptized by immersion. I was really born again when I became a Catholic.

 

[105lynne]

I was “born again” about a half dozen times, as well as baptized by immersion. I was really born again when I became a Catholic.

^ Perhaps this is what your reply should be… I’m curious to see what others think.

 

[lerapt78]

Gendron’s reply, in full:

So my question is: Do I just ignore his non-answer (which, I suspect, might make him think he “won”), or do I reply?

And if I reply, any suggestions as to what to say? I know others here, especially Church Militant, have had “conversations” with Mike Gendron in the past.

Good for you Bonnie, and thank you for speaking out!

At this point, I don’t think you need to answer his question. *He *is the one deflecting. I would reply to him that you would be happy to answer his question, *after *he addresses the points you’ve made. If he is writing falsehoods about the Church he should make himself accountable to his readers (especially if he is trying to reach a Catholic audience). Let it be known to others reading that he is trying to side-step your accusation and put you on the defense.

The key to an argument is to take it one step at a time.

 

[Lancer]

…Michael, so you do concur with my assessment that you have made hateful misrepresentations of the Catholic Church…Catholic faith and teachings. That is a great starting point…Thank you. Pax Christi…

 

[MarcoPolo]

Personally, I wouldn’t reply to him. That is an non sequitur, and I got the same from him in a 2007 email exchange. His breed of apologetics often involves rhetoric, dodging questions, and we know a great number of Catholics have attempted to reason with him in the past. But he does not reason in return. He exhibits symptoms of someone who has an emotional rejection of the Church rather than a reasonable one. Reasoning may not work on him. Maybe it will someday, but he does not show signs enough to warrant that in my humble opinion. One thing you can always let him know you agree with him on, is the statement: “Between the 2 of us, at least 1 of us is very wrong.”

 

[po18guy]

Personally, I wouldn’t reply to him. That is an non sequitur, and I got the same from him in a 2007 email exchange. His breed of apologetics often involves rhetoric, dodging questions, and we know a great number of Catholics have attempted to reason with him in the past. But he does not reason in return. He exhibits symptoms of someone who has an emotional rejection of the Church rather than a reasonable one. Reasoning may not work on him. Maybe it will someday, but he does not show signs enough to warrant that in my humble opinion. One thing you can always let him know you agree with him on, is the statement: “Between the 2 of us, at least 1 of us is very wrong.”

Is he baptized, does anyone know?

 

[Bonnie]

Mike Gendron was raised Catholic, so he would have been baptized as an infant.

 

[jam070406]

Who sent Mike Gendron?

 

[Farsight001]

For some reason I don’t remember, I get Mike Gendron’s e-mail newsletter. Sometimes I read it. The July newsletter had a line I couldn’t resist commenting on.

My comment:

(signed)
Bonnie
Ex-Protestant, Blessed Catholic for 36 years

Gendron’s reply, in full:

So my question is: Do I just ignore his non-answer (which, I suspect, might make him think he “won”), or do I reply?

And if I reply, any suggestions as to what to say? I know others here, especially Church Militant, have had “conversations” with Mike Gendron in the past.

One problem I would have with answering his born again question, should I decide to, is that as a Protestant, I was “born again” about a half dozen times, as well as baptized by immersion. I was really born again when I became a Catholic.

My response would simply be “I asked you a question first. Common courtesy suggests that you answer it and THEN ask a question yourself. So please, answer my question instead of changing the subject. I was talking about your misrepresentation of Catholic teaching, not the state of my soul. Please don’t change the subject.”

Changing subjects like that is a tactic that I see all the time used on Catholics, and I believe I see it all the time because it actually usually works. Stand your ground and don’t let him divert the issue.

 

[po18guy]

Who sent Mike Gendron?

From the apparent hardness of his heart, his ego sent him. Compare this with the results of those in scripture who sent themselves: Simon the sorcerer (Acts 8:9-24) and the seven sons of Sceva (Acts 19:13-16). Not good.

As well, old Mike should bone up on James 3:1.

 

[po18guy]

The correct response to Mr. Gendron’s failed diversion would be to simply reply “yes, through water and the Spirit”. However, his heart is hardened and his eyes closed to the truth. While praying for him, I am afraid that we must let him answer for his own error and the leading away of the souls that follow him.

 

[Bonnie]

My response would simply be “I asked you a question first. Common courtesy suggests that you answer it and THEN ask a question yourself. So please, answer my question instead of changing the subject. I was talking about your misrepresentation of Catholic teaching, not the state of my soul. Please don’t change the subject.”

Changing subjects like that is a tactic that I see all the time used on Catholics, and I believe I see it all the time because it actually usually works. Stand your ground and don’t let him divert the issue.

I like that! Very polite, but firm. May I use your words? And I was all prepped to go off topic in reply to his question. I believe that keeping someone on topic can also be called “holding his feet to the fire.” Sounds like fun.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Is he baptized, does anyone know?

I don’t know, but his bio claims he was a “devout Roman Catholic for over 34 years”.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t know, but his bio claims he was a “devout Roman Catholic for over 34 years”.

Who either…

1. Never believed in the Holy Eucharist - which is anti-devout, actually.
2. Knowingly walked away, John 6:66 style, from Christ, in favor of the mirror as messiah.

I wonder if this proclamation of his piety come from his former Bishop, or from himself?

 

[Bonnie]

His claim to have been a “devout Roman Catholic for over 34 years” is a little fishy. Some of those years would have been as an infant & young child - I’d be hard-pressed to call most little Catholics “devout.”

I don’t claim to have been a devout Methodist (which we attended until I was about 4 or 5), or a devout Baptist (attended to early teens), tho I did start attending the Pentecostal church on my own. So my “devoutness” would have lasted for only a few years in my teens.

He also lets one know he couldn’t have paid any attention to the Mass after Vatican II. He says on his website, "Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from heaven when he whispers over the wafer, “Hoc corpus meus est.”

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Bonnie,
John Martignoni, (someone who Gendron has debated via email) has a rather excellent answer to this question in his 2 minute apologetics section.

I saw that newsletter too and had a chuckle at it while I too had that same thought. I didn’t comment on it like you did though, so way to go You!

How should I respond to someone who asks me if I’ve been saved, or born again?
Answer with a resounding, “Yes!” Tell them that it is through Baptism that you were saved, just as the Bible says in 1 Ptr 3:20-21 and that it is through Baptism, water and the Spirit, that you are “born again,” just as the Bible says in John 3:5.

You see, many Protestants believe that they are saved by making one single act of faith at one single point in time in their lives. Nowhere does Scripture say such a thing. As Catholics, however, we believe that salvation is a process which begins with our Baptism and continues throughout our lifetimes, just as the Bible teaches us.
There are so many places in Scripture, which talk about how one is “saved”, but not one of them says we are saved by one act of faith at just one point in time. As I just mentioned, 1 Ptr 3:20 says we are saved by baptism. In Hebrews 12:14 it says that we will not see the Lord unless we are holy, and that we have to strive for this holiness. In Matthew 6:14-15, it says we must forgive others or we will not be forgiven. Can you attain salvation if God hasn’t forgiven you? No! So, our forgiving others is necessary for our salvation.

1 Tim 2:15 says that woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with modesty. John 6:54 says we will have eternal life by doing something…eating the flesh and drinking the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. In Matthew 19, verses 16 and 17, Jesus is asked directly what one must do to have eternal life. Did He say, accept me into your heart once and that’s it? No! Jesus said to keep the commandments and you will have life.

Yes, as Catholics we are born again. And, as Catholics we believe that we were saved, as Paul says in Rom 8:24; that we are being saved, as Paul says in 1 Cor 1:18; and that we will be saved, as Paul says in Rom 5:9-10, provided we persevere and keep our eyes on the prize. Salvation is a process, just as Catholics believe, and just as the Bible clearly teaches.

(Emphasis mine)

 

[Farsight001]

He also lets one know he couldn’t have paid any attention to the Mass after Vatican II. He says on his website, "Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from heaven when he whispers over the wafer, “Hoc corpus meus est.”

Are those even the right words?

edit in - and yes, OP, you may use my words, though I am to understand that Mr. Gendron lurks here and reads the posts about him sometimes, so he very well might take issue with you using another’s words, despite the permission given.

 

[LionHeart777]

For some reason I don’t remember, I get Mike Gendron’s e-mail newsletter. Sometimes I read it. The July newsletter had a line I couldn’t resist commenting on.

My comment:

(signed)
Bonnie
Ex-Protestant, Blessed Catholic for 36 years

Gendron’s reply, in full:

So my question is: Do I just ignore his non-answer (which, I suspect, might make him think he “won”), or do I reply?

And if I reply, any suggestions as to what to say? I know others here, especially Church Militant, have had “conversations” with Mike Gendron in the past.

One problem I would have with answering his born again question, should I decide to, is that as a Protestant, I was “born again” about a half dozen times, as well as baptized by immersion. I was really born again when I became a Catholic.

Yeah! I would say so, with the true answer according to how the Church understands John 3:5, which is how the Fathers understand John 3:5.

See here (the site is actually under maintenance, when it’s back up, search in the Catholic Answers for the Born Again tract with the citations of the Fathers on St. John 3:5)

 

[Bonnie]

Are those even the right words?

Good catch!

I didn’t notice because I know no Latin, so I asked my seminary-trained, Latin teacher husband. The correct Latin for “This is my body” is: “Hoc est enim corpus meum.”

edit in - and yes, OP, you may use my words, though I am to understand that Mr. Gendron lurks here and reads the posts about him sometimes, so he very well might take issue with you using another’s words, despite the permission given.

So he does know what lies he’s telling! I’ll just change the wording a wee bit.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

For some reason I don’t remember, I get Mike Gendron’s e-mail newsletter. Sometimes I read it. The July newsletter had a line I couldn’t resist commenting on.

My comment:

(signed)
Bonnie
Ex-Protestant, Blessed Catholic for 36 years

Gendron’s reply, in full:

So my question is: Do I just ignore his non-answer (which, I suspect, might make him think he “won”), or do I reply?

And if I reply, any suggestions as to what to say? I know others here, especially Church Militant, have had “conversations” with Mike Gendron in the past.

One problem I would have with answering his born again question, should I decide to, is that as a Protestant, I was “born again” about a half dozen times, as well as baptized by immersion. I was really born again when I became a Catholic.

My answer would be: “Yes. Now answer my question.”