Milk before meat, the mormons may have gotten it right!

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Tsuzuki said:
Who is “you guys”?

The natural man is lead.

Thank you. I believe I am making some headway.
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You guys are you and zerinus

I also am interested in the issues I think you are seeking after – how we are transformed even physically by sanctification. Maybe we should talk more about this.

To the others, I meant no disrespect to the church or to your beliefs, I know that is hard to believe, but my critque was aimed at Aquinas’ PHILOSOPHY. He was a brilliant, brilliant guy without question but stuck with the tools of his age. Logic has made advances since Aristotle

There are many problems philosophically in postulating the existence of a world we cannot experience in any way, or even talk about, so Occam’s razor has sliced it away.

The only philosophers who take him seriously today are Catholic, and at Catholic universities, as the other posts indicated. And I think there are other ways to account philosphically for the transformation that sanctification causes.

I actually think as zerinus has pointed out, that in a sense Mormons also believe in the real presence, in the sense that Jesus is PRESENT when we partake of the sacrament; we just do not believe that the bread literally becomes his flesh.

But I certainly don’t want to speak for zerinus. He is more than capable of speaking I think brilliantly for himself
 
mfbukowski said:
You guys are you and zerinus

I also am interested in the issues I think you are seeking after – how we are transformed even physically by sanctification. Maybe we should talk more about this.

To the others, I meant no disrespect to the church or to your beliefs, I know that is hard to believe, but my critque was aimed at Aquinas’ PHILOSOPHY. He was a brilliant, brilliant guy without question but stuck with the tools of his age. Logic has made advances since Aristotle

There are many problems philosophically in postulating the existence of a world we cannot experience in any way, or even talk about, so Occam’s razor has sliced it away.

The only philosophers who take him seriously today are Catholic, and at Catholic universities, as the other posts indicated. And I think there are other ways to account philosphically for the transformation that sanctification causes.

I actually think as zerinus has pointed out, that in a sense Mormons also believe in the real presence, in the sense that Jesus is PRESENT when we partake of the sacrament; we just do not believe that the bread literally becomes his flesh.

But I certainly don’t want to speak for zerinus. He is more than capable of speaking I think brilliantly for himself
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Whatever, I learned about Aquinas in Philosophy 101 at a huge State University with 30,000 students. I guess you have access to all university syllabi now.
 
mfbukowski said:
You guys are you and zerinus

I also am interested in the issues I think you are seeking after – how we are transformed even physically by sanctification. Maybe we should talk more about this.

To the others, I meant no disrespect to the church or to your beliefs, I know that is hard to believe, but my critque was aimed at Aquinas’ PHILOSOPHY. He was a brilliant, brilliant guy without question but stuck with the tools of his age. Logic has made advances since Aristotle

There are many problems philosophically in postulating the existence of a world we cannot experience in any way, or even talk about, so Occam’s razor has sliced it away.

The only philosophers who take him seriously today are Catholic, and at Catholic universities, as the other posts indicated. And I think there are other ways to account philosphically for the transformation that sanctification causes.

I actually think as zerinus has pointed out, that in a sense Mormons also believe in the real presence, in the sense that Jesus is PRESENT when we partake of the sacrament; we just do not believe that the bread literally becomes his flesh.

But I certainly don’t want to speak for zerinus. He is more than capable of speaking I think brilliantly for himself
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If logic has advanced since Aristotle so much, why is it still taught?
 
Here we are.

Mad Hatter syndrome is a result of brain damage due to mercury poisoning of felt-hat makers who were regularly exposed to mercuric nitrate during the last century. They were known as “mad hatters” because of the emotional problems they suffered from: sudden anger, hallucinations, delusions, loss of memory, and mania (Siblerud 1989).wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem4400/sjbr/Garrett.htm
 
I first heard of Occam’s Razor at a state university. I never heard about it in four years at a Catholic college.
 
Jerusha said:
I first heard of Occam’s Razor at a state university. I never heard about it in four years at a Catholic college.
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i am surprised since william of ockham was a franciscan. maybe you went to a jesuit school? 😃
 
Really, I went to a Franciscan college and never heard of him there. Remember the chaos of 1969-1972? :rolleyes:
 
thecourt said:
Why do you love picking on a church you do not like?

I could say things about Catholicims that I do not like, that prevent me from ever becoming a Catholic.
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It is out of love of your soul, that we attempt to lead you into all truth. Christ prophesied about all of the false prophets who would follow Him.

Consider: It is easy to join LDS and hard to leave. It is difficult to join the Catholic Church and easy to leave. Which reflects God’s gift of free will to us better? Please ponder this, as the LDS organization has changed too profoundly in its core beliefs to be an accurate reflection of the eternal, unchanging God.
 
Jerusha said:
Really, I went to a Franciscan college and never heard of him there. Remember the chaos of 1969-1972? :rolleyes:
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Which is the era the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen witnessed, and commented if Catholic parents wanted their children to** lose** the faith to send them to a “Catholic University” and make sure they took lots of theology courses. 😦
 
PaulDupre said:
Because Joseph Smith did not develop his polytheistic theology until several years after these were written.

Also, the Mormons like to have statements like this to fall back on so that they can deny their polytheism to unsuspecting potential converts. Many Mormon converts report never knowing about the multiple LDS ‘gods’ until well after they were baptized into the cult.
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Milk before meat!
 
Lion_of_Narnia said:
Which is the era the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen witnessed, and commented if Catholic parents wanted their children to** lose** the faith to send them to a “Catholic University” and make sure they took lots of theology courses. 😦
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So for Catholics thinking can be dangerous? Or is it just education?
 
mfbukowski said:
You guys got it right. It really doesn’t mean anything.

It is supposed to mean the “stuff” you can’t see that is “reality”. All we really see on this theory is “appearances”

Aquinas argued for example in his theory of tranSUBSTANtiation that the underlying substance of flesh and blood took on the appearance of bread and wine. Just like turning lead into gold for the alchemists.

But no philosopher has taken anything like this seriously for at least 800 years. That’s the “hocus pocus” I was talking about earlier. It is a corruption of “hoc est enim corpus meum” or “for this is my body”

So supposedly the trinity is composed of three persons with the same substance. I think they say 3 whos with one what or something like that. Good luck trying to figure it out.
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This from a guy whose religion teaches that when you get baptized into the Mormon Church, God changes your gentile blood into Israelite blood. :rolleyes:
 
mfbukowski said:
So for Catholics thinking can be dangerous? Or is it just education?
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Neither. The education system in the West is based on Catholic schools in the Middle Ages. Catholics have always encouraged education. The issue that he was addressing is the number of anti-Catholic people teaching in Catholic Schools. People like some modern Catholic Politicians who hold that the faith is not binding on them. The Catholic CHurch had a problem of liberalism infecting some schools.
 
scipio337 said:
Argumentum ad logicam.

Whether he “wrote” or “translated” (or transliterated) the BOM, he would still need writing material.

According to Oliver Cowdery, Crwdery himself transcribed what Smith said.

Ensign article about the process HERE

To me, it is more concerning he “translated” those plates by not even looking at them, with his head in a hat, gazing at a stone that he also used for “money-digging” and the failed Book of Abraham translation (which actually wasn’t a translation).

Hocus pocus, anyone?
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But try writing a book with your head in a hat and see just how successful you will be. And remember, keep a scribe or two nearby to record your book by feathered pen.

The hat trick can be quite faith promoting.
 
The only rising faith in Britain is Islam. The Church of England is also suffering from secularism. Mormons come here to defend their faith and not to do missionary work. If the catholics on this forum would not write strange things about mormonism and mormons, most mormons who post here would disappear from the forum.
 
Various Christian faiths interpret the scriptures differently. This is why there are so many sects of christianity out there. However, on this forum, critics of mormonism were disparaging the mormon church for giving their investigators and new converts ‘milk’ and not ‘meat’ without referencing the scripture in the New Testament. Thus, some people reading those threads did not have a clue that the term is in the New Testament and that mormons are only following the counsel of Paul if this does happen.
 
why_me said:
The only rising faith in Britain is Islam. The Church of England is also suffering from secularism. Mormons come here to defend their faith and not to do missionary work. If the catholics on this forum would not write strange things about mormonism and mormons, most mormons who post here would disappear from the forum.
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Yep. I would be gone.
 
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