Minimum Wage

[Buckeyeboy]

We can in North Carolina. It’s one of many “right to work” states.

Any employee, any time for any reason - or no reason at all. That’s the law.

The term is “at will” employment and there are still MANY exceptions to it so business can not subject workers certain acts of scum employers.

Ohio Courts have categorized 2, aside from the Statutory ones, state and federal.

 

[Buckeyeboy]

I just checked, if the chart is current, NC recognizes a Public Policy exception, as Ohio does.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

When Ray Kroc met the MacDonald brothers, do you really think he envisioned an army of employees all trying to support their families making burgers, fries and shakes?

Or was McDonald’s originally set up to be run largely by high school kids working after school?

Here is the problem as I see it:

In times long past, most jobs in this country were agricultural. Everyone in the family tended to work on the farm to raise what they needed for themselves and to take the rest to market.

Then came the depression and the war, and suddenly, many jobs were available in factories. After the war, soldiers coming home from overseas migrated to those high-paying factories which were booming as a result of all the pent-up demand created by the long years of poverty and rationing.

Later, jobs started going overseas as US manufacturers discovered the benefits of cheap labor in other countries.

So, American workers are no longer needed on the farms (which are now largely mechanized) and they are no longer needed in the factories which are mostly shut down.

So, where does the blue-collar worker find employment? In the retail and service sectors where they are competing with flood of cheap labor coming across our border in record numbers.

The nation that once made steel and built skyscrapers now sells real estate and operates mobile dog grooming services.

Yes, we have the technology and bio-tech fields, but most of those jobs are going to foreigners who are willing to earn the education required for success.

Meanwhile, the not-so-great grandsons of America’s Greatest Generation just want to play video games.

What Ray Kroc, and the MacDonald’s thought is immaterial. It’s 2014, and just about everything familiar to them has changed. Now the workers want a respectable percentage of the massive profits they generate. Who could blame them?

 

[Randy_Carson]

What Ray Kroc, and the MacDonald’s thought is immaterial. It’s 2014, and just about everything familiar to them has changed. Now the workers want a respectable percentage of the massive profits they generate. Who could blame them?

You seem to forget that the profits are the reward that is rightly due to the shareholders who took the risks by investing in the company. Without a reasonable ROI, there is no incentive for owners to take those risks and create those jobs in the first place.

Fast food restaurants were never designed to provide wages to support a family, but now folks who can’t or won’t make the effort to EARN the education and skills they need to justify a better wage are demanding EQUAL OUTCOME (ie. higher wages to match what other people are getting).

And it’s only a matter of time until they get what they want because eventually, those who take will outnumber those who make, and they will simply go to the polls and vote for candidates who promise to take care of them.

At that point, we will all become poor because no one will have sufficient capital to build a steel mill or a maid service that provides jobs. Capital, to be useful, has to be accumulated in large quantities.

UNLESS, of course, we rely on the GOVERNMENT to do it - which is the long-term objective of socialists, anyway.

NOW do you see why we have open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws?

 

[Randy_Carson]

The term is “at will” employment and there are still MANY exceptions to it so business can not subject workers certain acts of scum employers.

Ohio Courts have categorized 2, aside from the Statutory ones, state and federal.

I just checked, if the chart is current, NC recognizes a Public Policy exception, as Ohio does.

Thank you.

Yes, there are a couple of exceptions, but generally speaking, I don’t have to have a reason for firing someone, and they don’t have to have a reason for not showing up.

Of course, we do have the NC Department of Labor posters next to the time clock in our office.

 

[SebastianHSZ]

Government actions cannot be compared to or merged with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Government, especially in the last decade, exists through the theft of wealth at the point of a gun and prospers through transfer payments to buy itself time. A government mandated minimum wage has no relation to the Bible nor can it be measured on a “Christian scale” of some sort.

If a Catholic wishes to offer a higher minimum wage as a matter of faith then that would fall under the framework of the question the OP asked. But we have a government that steals from the producers and pays unearned benefits to half of the population to maintain power in the hands of a specific ideology.

It would seem that a beneficiary of this theft would be a party to the ongoing theft…

On a side note, inflation and wage hikes appear to only benefit the government as the tax table and such remain the same but the dollar values increase and everything becomes more expensive to buy.

 

[Cricket2]

Government actions cannot be compared to or merged with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Government, especially in the last decade, exists through the theft of wealth at the point of a gun and prospers through transfer payments to buy itself time. A government mandated minimum wage has no relation to the Bible nor can it be measured on a “Christian scale” of some sort.

If a Catholic wishes to offer a higher minimum wage as a matter of faith then that would fall under the framework of the question the OP asked. But we have a government that steals from the producers and pays unearned benefits to half of the population to maintain power in the hands of a specific ideology.

It would seem that a beneficiary of this theft would be a party to the ongoing theft…

On a side note, inflation and wage hikes appear to only benefit the government as the tax table and such remain the same but the dollar values increase and everything becomes more expensive to buy.

I agree that we really can’t compare government actions with Biblical aspects of paying fair wages. In fact we really can’t do that with anything that constitutes a moral issue.

That said, wages have been stagnant since the late 70’s, and certainly the early 80’s. Part of this started with Nixon’s elimination of the gold standard, an act that could only serve the rich. The globalization efforts are also responsible.

Christians of all denominations have a responsibility, in my opinion, to make sure they are not guilty of paying employees (if they are one that does that) lousy wages. We simply should never find it acceptable to pay people so little that they are actually among the “working poor.”

I know of several Christians who have managed to always be fair about paying their employees above average wages, giving them benefits, and treating them with respect. It can be done, it is just a matter of how willing we are to do it. One of the qualities of these individuals is a willingness to sacrifice having large paychecks for themselves so others can be hired and get paid fairly.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

You seem to forget that the profits are the reward that is rightly due to the shareholders who took the risks by investing in the company. Without a reasonable ROI, there is no incentive for owners to take those risks and create those jobs in the first place. This is disturbing as it is a little disjointed from reality. I’d say it seeks to apologize for some insidious greed. As though capital is somehow capable of producing on it’s own. When it is known to all that nothing happens without the actions of labor.

Fast food restaurants were never designed to provide wages to support a family, but now folks who can’t or won’t make the effort to EARN the education and skills they need to justify a better wage are demanding EQUAL OUTCOME (ie. higher wages to match what other people are getting). Here you seem to be lashing out at the workers.

And it’s only a matter of time until they get what they want because eventually, those who take will outnumber those who make, and they will simply go to the polls and vote for candidates who promise to take care of them. Again it’s labor that produces.

At that point, we will all become poor because no one will have sufficient capital to build a steel mill or a maid service that provides jobs. Capital, to be useful, has to be accumulated in large quantities. I wonder if you were not paying close attention in school. Or if you suffered under an inadequate education. Because if this is not your story then something tilted has made it’s way in to your thoughts.

UNLESS, of course, we rely on the GOVERNMENT to do it - which is the long-term objective of socialists, anyway. Rhetoric

NOW do you see why we have open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Rhetoric. We do not have open borders, and our immigration laws while constantly the focus of talking heads is enforced on par with the majority of our nations laws.

Talking points do not hold up well.

ATB

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Talking points do not hold up well.

Originally Posted by Randy Carson View Post
You seem to forget that the profits are the reward that is rightly due to the shareholders who took the risks by investing in the company. Without a reasonable ROI, there is no incentive for owners to take those risks and create those jobs in the first place.* This is disturbing as it is a little disjointed from reality. I’d say it seeks to apologize for some insidious greed. As though capital is somehow capable of producing on it’s own. When it is known to all that nothing happens without the actions of labor.*

What came first Capital or labor?

You have a bunch of guys sitting around with nothing to do. (labor) They will be sitting around forever until a sharp Capitalist comes along and says, Hey…I’m going to build a factory here to make a product that I can sell and make a big profit. You guys want a job?

Labor says…Yeah sure, but we want really high wages and really short hours and all sorts of benefits.

The sharp Capitalist, knowing what labor has done to cities like Detroit…tells labor to stuff it and builds an automated factory or simply moves overseas.

It’s not greed. It is self interest and it is reality.

Fast food restaurants were never designed to provide wages to support a family, but now folks who can’t or won’t make the effort to EARN the education and skills they need to justify a better wage are demanding EQUAL OUTCOME (ie. higher wages to match what other people are getting). Here you seem to be lashing out at the workers.

He does appear to be lashing out at labor…and rightly so. Jobs are different. Some are worth more than others. Some workers do not produce as much as others. These fast food workers simply want more money for less work,

And it’s only a matter of time until they get what they want because eventually, those who take will outnumber those who make, and they will simply go to the polls and vote for candidates who promise to take care of them. Again it’s labor that produces.

Labor cannot produce unless it has something to produce. Without Capital labor just sits around.

At that point, we will all become poor because no one will have sufficient capital to build a steel mill or a maid service that provides jobs. Capital, to be useful, has to be accumulated in large quantities.* I wonder if you were not paying close attention in school. Or if you suffered under an inadequate education. Because if this is not your story then something tilted has made it’s way in to your thoughts.*

He is right.

You have labor sitting around with nothing to do and someone says Hey, let’s build a factory so we can go to work. Great idea. So they count all their pocket change and find that don’t have enough to clear the land. To be useful…you need a large quantity of Capital.

Labor does not provide Capital.

UNLESS, of course, we rely on the GOVERNMENT to do it - which is the long-term objective of socialists, anyway. Rhetoric

But he is right…

NOW do you see why we have open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Rhetoric. We do not have open borders, and our immigration laws while constantly the focus of talking heads is enforced on par with the majority of our nations laws.

He is right again and you are amplifying his statement. It is true that many of our laws are NOT being enforced for simple political reasons. And that is nothing to be proud of.

 

[jmaher2day]

Minimum wage increase questions? Who is worhty to “look” over the fence to see what “another” is making? Is it not written? If one can not substain with little, that He had given, then how can one do the same if more is given unto him? Why seek wealth of the world? Where is one’s faith, that all provisions He giveth accordingly? Is there a lack of faith? Just a qustion, is it not written? I’d say this, if one is “lacking” then “he/she” is short of somthing…Hum. Is it not writen? Maybe one can turn it around, and be thankfull for very…very…very…very…little! Jesus, had not even a pillow to lay His own head, did He not? Think!

Peace

 

[Mickey_Finn]

What came first Capital or labor? Labor, capital is itself a creation of labor.

You have a bunch of guys sitting around with nothing to do. (labor) They will be sitting around forever until a sharp Capitalist comes along and says, Hey…I’m going to build a factory here to make a product that I can sell and make a big profit. You guys want a job?

Labor says…Yeah sure, but we want really high wages and really short hours and all sorts of benefits.

The sharp Capitalist, knowing what labor has done to cities like Detroit…tells labor to stuff it and builds an automated factory or simply moves overseas.

It’s not greed. It is self interest and it is reality.

He does appear to be lashing out at labor…and rightly so. Jobs are different. Some are worth more than others. Some workers do not produce as much as others. These fast food workers simply want more money for less work,

Labor cannot produce unless it has something to produce. Without Capital labor just sits around.

He is right.

You have labor sitting around with nothing to do and someone says Hey, let’s build a factory so we can go to work. Great idea. So they count all their pocket change and find that don’t have enough to clear the land. To be useful…you need a large quantity of Capital.

Labor does not provide Capital.

But he is right…

He is right again and you are amplifying his statement. It is true that many of our laws are NOT being enforced for simple political reasons. And that is nothing to be proud of.The rest is just an expression of your own fantasy.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Originally Posted by Randy Carson View Post
You seem to forget that the profits are the reward that is rightly due to the shareholders who took the risks by investing in the company. Without a reasonable ROI, there is no incentive for owners to take those risks and create those jobs in the first place.

First, can you learn to use the quote function? It makes responding to your posts much easier.

Second, why is it “greed” for someone who invests to expect some return in exchange for taking that risk?

Fast food restaurants were never designed to provide wages to support a family, but now folks who can’t or won’t make the effort to EARN the education and skills they need to justify a better wage are demanding EQUAL OUTCOME (ie. higher wages to match what other people are getting).

Here you seem to be lashing out at the workers.

Only those who are demanding higher wages that are not justified by the work that they do. Simple example: Why stop at $15.00 an hour? Why not $50? That way, every burger flipper in the US can have a comfortable six-figure salary. Oh…you wouldn’t be able to buy lunch at a restaurant that paid its workers $50 an hour? Me, either.

And it’s only a matter of time until they get what they want because eventually, those who take will outnumber those who make, and they will simply go to the polls and vote for candidates who promise to take care of them.

Again it’s labor that produces.

No argument.

At that point, we will all become poor because no one will have sufficient capital to build a steel mill or a maid service that provides jobs. Capital, to be useful, has to be accumulated in large quantities.

I wonder if you were not paying close attention in school. Or if you suffered under an inadequate education.

See my avatar? I’m a reasonably well-educated man. You? But it’s been awhile, so refresh me on Economics 101 if you think I’m in error.

Because if this is not your story then something tilted has made it’s way in to your thoughts.

It’s called reality. Have you ever started your own company and been responsible for paying others?

UNLESS, of course, we rely on the GOVERNMENT to do it - which is the long-term objective of socialists, anyway.

Rhetoric

Are you under 30?

NOW do you see why we have open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws?

Rhetoric. We do not have open borders, and our immigration laws while constantly the focus of talking heads is enforced on par with the majority of our nations laws.

You voted for Obama, didn’t you?

Talking points do not hold up well.

As the mid-term elections are about to prove.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

First, can you learn to use the quote function? It makes responding to your posts much easier.I’m not quoting, I’m correcting.

Second, why is it “greed” for someone who invests to expect some return in exchange for taking that risk?

Only those who are demanding higher wages that are not justified by the work that they do. Simple example: Why stop at $15.00 an hour? Why not $50? That way, every burger flipper in the US can have a comfortable six-figure salary. Oh…you wouldn’t be able to buy lunch at a restaurant that paid its workers $50 an hour? Me, either. Straw man argument.

No argument.

See my avatar? I’m a reasonably well-educated man. You? But it’s been awhile, so refresh me on Economics 101 if you think I’m in error. I was referring to the tone, and lack of empathy in your post.

 

[Randy_Carson]

:nope:

Here’s a little tutorial I put together (yes, I built that - with my own labor):

How to use the Catholic Answers Forum Quote Function

If you want to respond to something that someone else posted, you can simply hit the “Quote” button on the lower right…not the “Post Reply” button on the lower left. Simply begin typing after the text that the forum automatically copies for you. That’s what I did at the beginning of this post above.

If you want to insert your comments into the middle of something you are quoting, you have to manually insert square brackets. Here is the original passage I want to comment on:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot, and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.

In order to show you what you need to do, I have to use a different set of brackets for illustrative purposes only. I’ll use { and } instead of and ] so that you can see where the brackets should be located, and I’ll insert my comments in red text. To begin a quote, you must insert {quote} at the beginning of the passage and {/quote} at the end. The / is the key to ending the quoted section. Here’s what it would look like:

{quote} Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot, {/quote} I’m inserting my comments here in red. {quote} and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put. {/quote} Hope this helps.

Remember, wherever you see the { or } you have to actually use a square bracket or ] so that the paragraph above comes out like this:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltan Cobalt View Post
What came first Capital or labor?

Labor, capital is itself a creation of labor.

Oh come on now Micky…

If that were the case ALL industry would be operated and controlled by unions.

The rest is just an expression of your own fantasy.

Your problem is that my fantasies are true…