Miracles of the Saints - Protestant reaction?

[Zooey]

I’m assuming you must be very young and that you assume the internet has always been around, making it easy for even marginal (most of us) Catholics to get this type of information.

How long has the Shroud of Turin been around? I’ve only known about it for 15 years. Has the Church done everything possible to scientifically prove or disprove that the shroud is what it is believed to be? You betcha. Has the shroud been scientifically proven (or disproven) to be Jesus’ burial cloth? Nope. Has the Church declared one way or the other? Nope.

How long has stigmata been around? Catholics hardly have a lock on this one, but I’ve only known about it for 5 years.

The Catholic Church is the most sceptical of all concerning these things. We’re still anxiously waiting for a pronouncement on the Blessed Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich on Ebay.

Here’s a comparison for ya:
How many Evangelicals know the Rev. Billy Graham has an honorary degree from Belmont Abbey (Catholic monastary and college)??

I would think that if this was true (and it is) at minimal all evangelicals would know and that all (not just plenty, google it and see) of evangelicals would bash Rev. Graham for accepting a degree from a Catholic monastary/college.

See what happens when we assume?

And don’t get me started on Juan Diedo’s cloak.

I actually think that this is the most believeable of all the apparitions, miracles, whatever. Why? Because it converted the Aztecs from a brutal bloodthirsty paganism to Christianity.
Now there is a miracle!! I don’t understand all about it–does anyone??–but I believe in it, without reservation, because I can see the fruits that followed it!!

 

[MariaG]

Yup we had a thread awhile back about protestant miracles, there are plenty.

1. Protestant miracles are usually instant healings (Blind see, deaf hear etc.) or ressurections from the dead.
2. What I call object Miracles (statues crying, Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are rarely seen in the protestant faith while I seem to hear more about them than healings among Catholics.
3. Less protestant miracles are formally Documented because Protestants don’t have a central authority like Catholics do and the pRotestants aren’t prone to reporting them to the Catholics.

I believe 1. and 2. are true because of what one teacher I heard called “God in a Box” syndrome.

God is undefinable in human terms, yet in order for us to follow Him and discern His will for us, we all must rely on what information we have and our faith. God is a respector of persons. If someone is bent on believing that He does not exist, it’s extremely rare to hear that God just one day manifests Himself to that person in a completely undeniable way. In the same way, a He is not going to Change the communion of a protestant who believes it a sacred symbol into physical flesh and blood.

All of us have to put God in a box so that the bits of information about Him we have will be useful in our lives. Otherwise the information would be too infinate and complicated for us to comprehend. Each person has their own box they put God in, it’s size is based on what amount Faith they have. The miracles we see and experience and believe are only the sorts that fit in our boxes. It is the way we are made.

The teacher I heard use the “God in a Box” phrase used to say “So let Him OUT!” I’m not prepared to do that. I don’t think I could handle it all. But I pray daily God will increse my Faith so the box I have will get larger. We have a Big and awesome God!

This is so true. The people who come here who refuse to believe that God can heal through objects, even though we can see in scripture that this was done, just don’t want to let God out of the box.

Conversely, you are also correct. Catholics are so “concrete” and used to seeing God do miracles through things that, in general, that is what is expected and what is seen. God is also put in a box.

Most people never recognize this of themselves. I pray that since you do see it, God will help you “box” to grow in order to let Him out And maybe go to more classes by that teacher .

Maria

 

[Syele]

Most people never recognize this of themselves. I pray that since you do see it, God will help you “box” to grow in order to let Him out And maybe go to more classes by that teacher .

Maria

Thanks Maria. But I don’t think it’s possible to completely let God out of the Box unless you* fully* Comprehend all of that that is God and have *Complete faith in Him for all things. *not till after we die I suppose. But I much appreciate prayers there… we can all use more faith!

And as for that teacher… he leads siminars around the country… there is one I have not yet attended but it would cost alot for me to go.

 

[MariaG]

Thanks Maria. But I don’t think it’s possible to completely let God out of the Box unless you* fully* Comprehend all of that that is God and have *Complete faith in Him for all things. *not till after we die I suppose. But I much appreciate prayers there… we can all use more faith!

And as for that teacher… he leads siminars around the country… there is one I have not yet attended but it would cost alot for me to go.

You may be correct. So I’ll pray that God helps your faith to grow to a point where your box is VERY big

And maybe bless you with a cost free way to attend that seminar

God Bless,
Maria

 

[awantz]

The only miracle you mentioned that I am aware of is the Eucharist and it doesn’t contradict my practice. I believe it happened and I wish I was around to see it. I think that would have been an awsome experience. I think it was/is very important. I’ve used this miracle in other forums. As for the other miracles, I can’t say anything, because I don’t know anything about them.

 

[Mystophilus]

Why is that so the the mainstream protestant don’t believes in miracles?? So does it really take someone especially those non believers where miracle does happened on them for these group of protestant to see then they believes God does perform it??

The problem lies with science. The great advances in science in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries led to the development of a belief in ‘rationalism’, and a disbelief in things which could not be demonstrated in an experiment or at least expressed in theoretical terms based upon previous experimentation. In other words, the West became increasingly sceptical of what it could not see.

This flowed over into Christianity. Scientists were not there to record miracles happening: people just heard stories about them, and knew that other people could have been inventing those stories. Because no one could prove that miracles were happening, people stopped believing in them.

What it would take, then, for these people to believe in miracles would be miracles happening to themselves.

 

[glimmer]

What it would take, then, for these people to believe in miracles would be miracles happening to themselves.

Some people only believe in what they CAN’T see. They can explain away miracles, but believe in a distant God. Wow.

I heard a recording once of somebody’s grandfather who was a Baptist preacher that didn’t believe in miracles. He’d had an accident years ago and it damaged his vocal chords. He had to talk in a throaty whisper for all his life. Then he was up in the pulpit one morning preaching against miracles when suddenly his voice began doing some odd things and it was restored. I heard this on tape as it happened. It was one of his own grandkids who was in this church where I heard it. And this man, preaching, said, “I–I–I don’t know what to say…”

Some people really do believe, but in a limited way. I think it’s not the miracle that is so important, but God uses these situations in our lives as a door to reveal Himself to us. That’s what it’s about–making Himself known in a fuller way to a believer who struggles with doubts.