Miracles of the Saints - Protestant reaction?

[Frost]

I have read about countless numbers of miracles attributed to the Saints, many of which occurred after their death, such as never decaying, or having the aroma of flowers or sweetness - or how about the miracles in which the Eucharist was changed to real flesh in blood and still preserved today in Europe. These seem to be miraculous acts of God through the Saints, and yet it is not something that I hear many Protestants (I know some Protestants do hold high esteem for the Saints although the miracle of the Eurcharist would still be one that seems to contridict their practices), or anyone outside of the Cathlolic Church for that matter make reference to?

Why is this? Any ideas, or reactions from non-catholics about the importance of these miracles?

Thank you!

Peace

A good example is the viking king Olav, you can read about him and the miracles here: katolsk.no/biografi/olav/eng_12.htm

As a Protestant, I have no problem believing that God performs miracles. In the case of Olav, I think the miracles helped people to believe in God and become Christians

 

[Eden]

A good example is the viking king Olav, you can read about him and the miracles here: katolsk.no/biografi/olav/eng_12.htm

As a Protestant, I have no problem believing that God performs miracles. In the case of Olav, I think the miracles helped people to believe in God and become Christians

Thanks for the article, Frost. That was very interesting. I like the prayer at the end:

Almighty, everlasting God, you sent Olav Haraldsson to Norway to bring Christianity to the country and people. You let him build churches and install priests. At his intercession, give many Norwegians the vocation to become priests today.

Amen.

 

[MariaG]

I don’t have a problem with believing that Bernadette was telling the truth or that all this hasn’t been documented. For some reason, people keep bringing up how many people saw, and how much documentation, etc. The question is not whether it happened or whether people are healed, but what spirit was it of and how does it fit into the purposes of God? See, even Satan is beautiful and that’s why I must ask the question even of a Marian apparition.

If it truly turns people to Christ, then I am glad, though I would like to know what that actually means to individuals. Does it mean oohing and ahhing over phenomena and acting religious or does it mean they have a deeper walk and experience much repentance and transformation?

When I was 10, I saw a UFO. It knocked out a TV station and other people saw it, too. The question was not its authenticity or whether I was even crazy (at least not after it hit the papers the day after I told my parents). The real question was what was it? Was it a “flying saucer” because that’s what it represented to us? Or was it a paranormal manifestation? A black op project? I never found out, but it did not diminish the fact that it was real whatever it was.

Thank you for your thoughtful and patient response. I wish everyone were as courteous.

Quite the contrary. It has been exstensively documented. She was extensively questioned at the time also.
Here is the story here.

The Catholic Church absolutely agrees with you. Satan can fool people. There is much skepticism in the Church when visionaries come forward. One of the modern ones in fact, Medjugorje, is one such that the Church has yet to approve as a true apparition. Many think that there will never be approval of this but the Church at this time has withheld its approval or disapproval (as far as I am aware at this time).

Here is an article from EWTN on Medjugorje

This is also may be the reason that although the Church does not hide these miracles of God, neither do they tell everyone to “Go and look”.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[glimmer]

Many think that there will never be approval of this but the Church at this time has withheld its approval or disapproval (as far as I am aware at this time).

Thank you for posting this information. I will definitely take a look.

 

[wcknight]

My facetious remarks were taken way too seriously!

I was hoping some one would say something about the freezers the Italians have been using since the fifth century without electricity!!!

No, ……….I believe this is one of the greatest miracles God gave to his Church,………not the Anglicans nor Baptist nor Episcopalians nor Muslims! I would love for someone to explain why so many of these Catholic Saints have the signs for others (including you and me) that there was something special that God wanted to make sure our attention was drawn to. Whether it is the incorrupt tongue of St. Anthony of Padua (and the sermons he gave for his parishioners), the incorrupt body of St. Bernadette, or this Eucharist that is over 1300 years old, why are all these events Catholic?

Does anyone want to talk about Transubstantiation??? Given this event in Lanciano, I don’t think so!

This miracle that could only be proved with the technology we have today belies another point someone brought up. Faith requires belief in the mystery of our Lord. I believe our Lord has given us many signs, i.e. miracles, for us, but how many miracles do we really know anything about, or how much easier is it to come up with some other lame excuse for why the event is not real and say it is a sign of the devil or something? Come on,….do you really think the devil would be proclaiming the word of God?

This miracle at Lanciano is one that I never knew about until this internet thing came about. Again, why do all these events always seem to be Catholic? Is my Lord saying something to me?

aaaahhh, you could have had a V8 ???

 

[wcknight]

One of the interesting aspects about the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano is that it happened for a priest who had lost his faith in the true presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. I suspect he no longer had any doubts again after that one.

There have been several other Eucharistic miracles similar. It would be interesting to match the DNA samples to check if they all match, some from hundreds of years apart… pretty cool !!!

Someone break out the Twilight Zone music…

 

[glimmer]

Does anyone want to talk about Transubstantiation??? Given this event in Lanciano, I don’t think so!

I do. I want to know why, given such a doctrine, people didn’t take the transformed-wafer-into-flesh and eat it instead of displaying it.

 

[corvidae]

I do. I want to know why, given such a doctrine, people didn’t take the transformed-wafer-into-flesh and eat it instead of displaying it.

That is what happened at Orvieto
The priest could not find a place to properly respect the miracle, and so immediately ate it, so that it would not be disrespected. The only evidence of the miracle is bloodspots on the altar cloth and on the priests vestments, and the hundreds of people who witnessed it.

A lone Raven

 

[glimmer]

That is what happened at Orvieto
The priest could not find a place to properly respect the miracle, and so immediately ate it, so that it would not be disrespected. The only evidence of the miracle is bloodspots on the altar cloth and on the priests vestments, and the hundreds of people who witnessed it.

That must have been a site to behold! I’m afraid I would have thrown up after doing that. How did he keep it down?

 

[jmcrae]

That is what happened at Orvieto
The priest could not find a place to properly respect the miracle, and so immediately ate it, so that it would not be disrespected. The only evidence of the miracle is bloodspots on the altar cloth and on the priests vestments, and the hundreds of people who witnessed it.

A lone Raven

The same thing happened to a woman in Korea.

Somewhere in one of these piles, I have a copy of a photo that was taken of her receiving the Host when it changed into flesh and blood. (Apparently there was a tourist with a camera handy, at the time, which I thought was a handy coincidence.)

I’m not sure whether this particular miracle has been verified yet, but it’s certainly caused a lot of talk and speculation.

 

[MariaG]

That must have been a site to behold! I’m afraid I would have thrown up after doing that. How did he keep it down?

If one truly believes in the Real Presence of Christ, why would the physical change of appearance affect one in a negative manner like that? This is the Catholic belief. We truly believe that we are recieving the living body of Christ and become united with Him and all the saints.

I imagine only if one did not truly believe in the first place that it was the Real Presence, and was confronted with the physical evidence that showed that disbelief to be wrong would someone throw up. Or walk away as they did in scripture.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[az_4_faith]

Jesus, in his Ultimate Mercy and Wisdom, gives us His beautiful Body and Blood under the forms of bread and wine in the Holy Eucharist because He knew how hard His teaching would be for so many of us. He re-presents to us a bloodless sacrifice in place of the very bloody sacrifice that He made on Calvary when He offered Himself totally to the Father in atonement for our sins. He became the sinless, spotless Lamb of the Passover, the Lamb meant to be offered AND eaten for the forgiveness of sins, in the same tradition of the Passover sacrifices of the Old Testament. (It wasn’t enough for the Jews to slaughter the sacrificial lamb and spread its blood on the altars, they were to consume the lamb as well.)

The Greek word used in John’s Gospel in which our Lord told His followers to “eat my flesh and drink my blood” literally translates to “chew” or “tear” His flesh. This was not meant to be mistaken.
Unfortunately, Jesus knew many would not take Him at His Word. From time to time, He permits Eucharistic miracles to occur, for whatever reasons He deems necessary. But for the majority of us all, we’re to believe Him at His Word, without visual miracles. That’s faith and trust.

Again, we don’t have to believe or disbelieve the miracles. They add nothing to the Gospels. But they may add faith to the doubter they’re intended for. Nothing more, nothing less.

*Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, Truly present in the Holy Eucharist, I place all my trust in You . . . *

 

[wcknight]

I do. I want to know why, given such a doctrine, people didn’t take the transformed-wafer-into-flesh and eat it instead of displaying it.

Either action would be legitimate. Our belief says that we are to literally consume the Body and Blood of Christ. BUT since a physical miracle was taking place, I find it equally appropriate that evidence of such an actual transformation be preserved for the Church and its members to see and know that their faith is founded on fact and not just theory or symbolic imagery as some other denominations are.

The fact that these miracles happen in the Catholic Church and not in some other denominations points to the veracity of our claim as being the one true Chruch founded by Christ.

 

[Wildkit]

I do. I want to know why, given such a doctrine, people didn’t take the transformed-wafer-into-flesh and eat it instead of displaying it.

glimmer

You stated you wanted to talk about transubstantiation. OK. Someone may take a position that this Lanciano event might give credit to that claim that the bread and wine when consecrated by the priest becomes the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Someone may also suggest that this Catholic doctrine might be demonstrated in part through this event. Allischamers wants DNA proof, but I believe we all know the problems with that statement. Therefore, how does one rebut this Lanciano event? For that matter, how does one explain it to begin with?

 

[theguidedheart]

I was quite surprised when someone gave me some Protestant literature that proclaimed that miraculous events were the tricks of Satan. Jesus himself told us that he who is not against us is for us. The devil cannot lead us to Jesus. Yet the Protestant literture clearly condemned miracles as coming from the devil. This never made any sense to me since the miracles actual lead me closer to Jesus.

Yeah I see that as a major flaw in that sort of thinking as well - if the devil is using these miracles to deceive people, he is failing seriously, because it has only strengthened the faith in Christians for centuries, and inspired new people to take on a Christian life. These miracles have been a great leading light towards God.

Peace

 

[theguidedheart]

The same thing happened to a woman in Korea.

Somewhere in one of these piles, I have a copy of a photo that was taken of her receiving the Host when it changed into flesh and blood. (Apparently there was a tourist with a camera handy, at the time, which I thought was a handy coincidence.)

I’m not sure whether this particular miracle has been verified yet, but it’s certainly caused a lot of talk and speculation.

I think this miracle happens every once in awhile with her, it was not a one time event - there is a picture and a small article about this on the website I posted in a previous post up there…

Peace

 

[jmcrae]

I think this miracle happens every once in awhile with her, it was not a one time event - there is a picture and a small article about this on the website I posted in a previous post up there…

Peace

Oh, that’s very interesting! The pamphlet I have is in Korean, which is why I didn’t know - I don’t read Korean.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

i am exactly the same. i only know about the miracles because i’ve tried to find out more. it always seems that these miracles only happen to catholics and are therefore for catholics only. this sounds envious and that’s because it is. i recently watched ‘song of bernadette’ and it really made me think, why are protestants so utterly closed off to these things? its sad and yet incredibly confusing at the same time.

i try to keep an open mind and try to learn more via this forum and other websites. i just think it doesn’t hurt to know more whatever faith you come from.

IMO it depends what one hears about, & how - there are Protestant miracle stories: I remember just one, to the effect that the dead have been raised; specifically, in Borneo or some such place. I have no difficulty believing this.​

I think you’re right about being not “closed off” - some people are more open to these things than others; & sometimes, the stories are ill-founded. As for Eucharistic miracles, I doubt any of the mediaeval stories is about real blood - rust or some other natural secretion seems more likely. And some miracles are uncanny rather than numinous. The Lanciano event may simply be a matter of something misidentified as blood - haematology was not exactly advanced in the 700s.

If Eucharistic miracles prove a dogma, I don’t see how they can be from God. We have faith - and that is more than enough ##

 

[Syele]

IMO it depends what one hears about, & how - there are Protestant miracle stories: I remember just one, to the effect that the dead have been raised; specifically, in Borneo or some such place. I have no difficulty believing this.​

Yup we had a thread awhile back about protestant miracles, there are plenty.

1. Protestant miracles are usually instant healings (Blind see, deaf hear etc.) or ressurections from the dead.
2. What I call object Miracles (statues crying, Eucharistic miracles, etc.) are rarely seen in the protestant faith while I seem to hear more about them than healings among Catholics.
3. Less protestant miracles are formally Documented because Protestants don’t have a central authority like Catholics do and the pRotestants aren’t prone to reporting them to the Catholics.

I believe 1. and 2. are true because of what one teacher I heard called “God in a Box” syndrome.

God is undefinable in human terms, yet in order for us to follow Him and discern His will for us, we all must rely on what information we have and our faith. God is a respector of persons. If someone is bent on believing that He does not exist, it’s extremely rare to hear that God just one day manifests Himself to that person in a completely undeniable way. In the same way, a He is not going to Change the communion of a protestant who believes it a sacred symbol into physical flesh and blood.

All of us have to put God in a box so that the bits of information about Him we have will be useful in our lives. Otherwise the information would be too infinate and complicated for us to comprehend. Each person has their own box they put God in, it’s size is based on what amount Faith they have. The miracles we see and experience and believe are only the sorts that fit in our boxes. It is the way we are made.

The teacher I heard use the “God in a Box” phrase used to say “So let Him OUT!” I’m not prepared to do that. I don’t think I could handle it all. But I pray daily God will increse my Faith so the box I have will get larger. We have a Big and awesome God!

 

[Zooey]

More impressive are the medically investigated and described healings that have taken place at Lourdes.

And also the others that have occurred at the intervention of many of the Saints.

Remember two miracles are required attributable to the intervention of a deceased person before they can be declared a saint. And things such as incorruptibility (which can sometimes occur naturally in the right conditions) or phantom perfumes don’t cut it in that regard.

Yes, these are what really interests me…There seem to be miraculous healings all over the place around the saints. Now, those have no explanation–exept, of course, that miracles are for real!!