Miserable with NFP!

[Good_Daughter]

TO each her own.

Exactly. I would just like to see women (and men) better educated on reproductive health and choices, including fertility awareness methods of family planning. We deserve to be fully informed before we make important decisions in this area.

I don’t think this stat included spermicide use, which is completely safe, as per the beginning of my last post.

Actually, the diaphragm used with spermicide has a method failure rate (perfect use) of 6%, according to Toni Weschler who cites Contraceptive Technology, Seventeenth Revised Edition, 1998. I believe I mentioned this in a previous post.

Each has to decide what is best for her and her partner (sorry, but a lot of these folks aren’t married…) ABC, NFP or whatever.

I’m not sure why you’re sorry some sexually active people aren’t married… I do agree each woman has to decide what’s best for her and her partner. I’m just keen on good education in all areas of life, including sex.

I suspect that the OP in this thread is in dire need of more and better education in fertility awareness/NFP. Chances are he probably won’t get it. I believe both the Church and the medical community have dropped the ball on this one.

 

[hasikelee]

NFP is not an exclusively Catholic practice, however. Many of my non Catholic friends follow NFP–more so than some of my Catholic ones.

I agree! I know more non-Catholics/non-Christians who use NFP. Fertility monitoring is science, and also very natural, which appeals to many atheists and naturalists.

 

[johnnyjoe]

Good one. Papal infallibility is my biggest reason for the lapse in my faith. Many things have been said and many have been condemned as Heretics over the years with decrees and encyclicals that are supposablly infallible or close to it.

Ask Galileo, and those who endured the hell of the inquisition. How infallible are those Popes who spoke against evils like thinking the world was not flat or that they could be free to practice religion that did not agree with Rome.

Um, you should be a bit more careful here. The Galileo Myth has long since be debunked, and you can find a good source of the debunking on Catholic Answers website - or even in CAF here.

Infallibility is not what most people think it is, and I do wish you would look to the Church’s own definitions for the term before you would rashly condemn the Dogma.

To me, the best definition is that It is just and only a negative protection from error in the area of Faith and Morals - a protection provided by the Holy Spirit. There are many Church documents that would define the Dogma with more precision and nuance, so I would encourage you to read them - starting with Catholic Answers main site, perhaps.

 

[searching06]

Well, to the OP - no, brother, you are not alone. NFP is no picnic and in spite of what most on the board say, it does and did have a very negative effect on our intimacy. There may well be other things, which I have posted before, that contribute to it all. But combined with the CCC doctrine on sex, things stink.

We have four wonderful kids, all conceived via NFP, so yes, it works, for us anyway. Even I have to admit NFP gets the blame when it is really the CCC teachings on sex that create havoc. Sorry, but I do the dishes and clean and everything else I can think, always have. Hard to do backrubs or hold hands or snuggle when intimacy is gone. Pretending doesn’t help. Cross to bear? Maybe. But I haven’t found any comfort, even in prayer, which has only become harder. Too many questions, too little understanding.
But one of those questions is are all the other Christians going to hell because they have sex and don’t use NFP?

Do hang in there, though. Some folks here seem to have found answers and/or comfort and acceptance of it all. Day at a time is all you can do, brother, day at a time; me, too.

As for LilyM’s comment to the poster who had a tubal - yours are the types of comments which make people leave the site. I have not visited for a long time for that reason. Folks come here looking for answers, suggestions, comfort. Condemnation ain’t part of the picture. “Telling the truth” as you see it needs to be tempered with the compassion Christ intended, even if the receiver doesn’t like the anwer, as in a tubal was wrong according to the Church. But then, in all of my questions and doubts, I still have to think God will have compassion on His children if the cross became too much. We all must strive, but we are not Christ and Divine. That’s the point. But no one should be given the “heinous” speech or even the “you haven’t sacrificed to the point of blood” speech either.

 

[tessi]

I really don’t get why catholic people get married.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I really don’t get why catholic people get married.

huh

 

[kage_ar]

I really don’t get why catholic people get married.

Perhaps reading scripture and the CCC would help you “get” it?

**1660 **The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman form with each other an intimate communion of life and love, has been founded and endowed with its own special laws by the Creator. By its very nature it is ordered to the good of the couple, as well as to the generation and education of children. Christ the Lord raised marriage between the baptized to the dignity of a sacrament (cf. CIC, can. 1055 § 1; cf. GS 48 § 1).

 

[searching06]

Of course you will have your ups and downs, but marriage is supposed to be the one place that you can find solace from the storms out there. Your friend and lover, your companion.

To willingly engage in something that will shake the foundation of your marraige is just not right bby me.

How many folks have already come out saying that NFP is horrible for them too?

It’s a problem. Not everyone fit into the NFP bubble. And not everyone is ready to have more kids (For whatever reason).
What happens when you have people that deosn’t work with NFP and are not ready to have kids?

You get unhappy people. You get frustrated and lonely people. You get people with too many kids that they can’t handle. Emotionally, or spiritually or financially.

The problem is that there is no alternative. The only alternative is mortal sin.

Sucks don’t it? But hey, it’s life, suck it up. Pffft.

Sorry, this frustration is not directed at you at all. I’m not sure who it’s directed at. No one really, just feeling VERY boxed in and angry right now.

PM,
I happened to check back in to the site and found this thread. You hit it on the head, exactly, but no one wants to admit it, in this post and your previous one. Been there, done that. Does not make choosing the wrong outlet OK, but a lack of sexual intimacy definitley leads one unto tempation, so to speak.
Try to find my last post in this thread, from 4/16/08. I think the beef is really with a combo of CCC and NFP, but NFP gets the blame because people are more aware of that than CCC.
Sexual intimacy IS critical to marriage; don’t give me the happy dance about anything else. I, too, felt my wife and I had a much more intense, intimate realtionship before NFP and CCC, and it wasn’t just for sex.

 

[Jennifer_J]

PM,
I happened to check back in to the site and found this thread. You hit it on the head, exactly, but no one wants to admit it, in this post and your previous one. Been there, done that. Does not make choosing the wrong outlet OK, but a lack of sexual intimacy definitley leads one unto tempation, so to speak.
Try to find my last post in this thread, from 4/16/08. I think the beef is really with a combo of CCC and NFP, but NFP gets the blame because people are more aware of that than CCC.
Sexual intimacy IS critical to marriage; don’t give me the happy dance about anything else. I, too, felt my wife and I had a much more intense, intimate realtionship before NFP and CCC, and it wasn’t just for sex.

What in the world is the CCC?

 

[searching06]

Catechism of the Catholic Church. Sorry, thought others here used that - thought here is where I got that!

 

[searching06]

I really don’t get why catholic people get married.

I’m Catholic and I got ya’. Here we are complaining and/or trying to understand and seem not to be happy - why bother with marriage and make each other miserable if following Church teaching doesn’t help? Something like that, maybe?

 

[kage_ar]

What in the world is the CCC?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[whatevergirl]

No Catholic ‘has’ to follow NFP–but there is the possibility of having many kids spaced close together, then. I think that really, when I read between the lines, through this thread and others on the matter, is that married devout Catholics don’t have a problem with NFP, as a whole or concept, but rather what is ‘not permitted’ through the CCC’s teachings. Because if people ‘get’ the whole NFP concept, and they believe in not taking artifical bc or using condoms for religious reasons, what is the issue then? The Church didn’t create biology. lol God did. Women can get pregnant in a certain window of time-- period. If you want to follow the RCC’s teachings, AND WANT TO SPACE BIRTHS OR AVOID PREGNANCY FOR WHATEVER YOUR REASONS ARE–then, you would need to abstain during the fertile times. But, I think there is more to it than that…otherwise, people wouldn’t be blaming the Catholic Church for their lack of intimacy, etc. The Church is merely standing for natural ‘birth control’ measures…not artificial ones.

It also teaches that the sex act needs to be completed through intercourse…I think that is where the problem lies more than the NFP. Because NFP is a choice that a couple makes–to space births, and really, if one is a practicing Catholic, artifical bc doesn’t even enter into his/her minds. So…is the problem really NFP, or is it in the ‘other’ things that are off the menu so to speak, when following Catholic teaching on marital sexuality? Not saying people don’t have issues with NFP…but, if two people are that worried over potentially getting pregnant…that is probably what is causing the lack of intimacy, not the two weeks out of the month one needs to abstain. I don’t know about everyone else, but going ‘without’ for say 10 days per month, should not mitigate or destroy marital intimacy. Which leads me to think there is something more under the surface–maybe there’s an elephant in the room that is being avoided, and the blame is being put on the CCC’s acceptance and encouragement of NFP for spacing births.

Just my ramblings…don’t mind me.

 

[Em_in_FL]

So…is the problem really NFP, or is it in the ‘other’ things that are off the menu so to speak, when following Catholic teaching on marital sexuality? Not saying people don’t have issues with NFP…but, if two people are that worried over potentially getting pregnant…that is probably what is causing the lack of intimacy, not the two weeks out of the month one needs to abstain.** I don’t know about everyone else, but going ‘without’ for say 10 days per month, should not mitigate or destroy marital intimacy.** Which leads me to think there is something more under the surface–maybe there’s an elephant in the room that is being avoided, and the blame is being put on the CCC’s acceptance and encouragement of NFP for spacing births.

Just my ramblings…don’t mind me.

No… your ramblings & train of thought are dead on!

So the question is… what level of marital intimacy is required for those who say the Catholic Church’s teachings are unacceptable?
At what point is sex a novelty?

I mean, on a personal level… I have a very high drive for a woman… and I can’t imagine requiring more than NFP “allows”…

 

[whatevergirl]

Hi Em!

It’s funny you say that, because I thought the same thing…I mean, is it that difficult to go without for a period of time? I think there are a couple of things that following NFP will do, however, to the marital act. If you want to avoid pregnancy, the lack of spontaneity will definitely be there. Not completely, but if you are trying to avoid pregnancy–then there will be caution in one’s foreplay. Which when you get down to it–as married people, we should be surrendering to the act, not putting our guards up. That is what NFP does NOT do–we do that. We make it harder than it needs to be, largely, because we like to have things the instance we have a desire. NFP does not mitigate intimacy. It is simply a natural process following a woman’s natural ovulation process that is allowable by the RCC to space births. I think in part, it would leave a couple open to a miracle then–even if they abstain during fertile times–artifical bc when taken as contraception, leaves nothing open for life. It’s nearly impossible to get pregnant on artifical bc.

I don’t say this with ease…nor do I diminish anyone’s feelings who struggle following NFP. I just encourage you to look deep within yourself as to where the struggle is…is it really with the Church? Is it with not being able to do sexual things outside of the RCC’s acceptable methods? Could the lack of intimacy that you are experiencing, really be more about your fear of intimacy, because it might lead to a pregnancy? Fear will always create lack. God came to give us life abundantly…It took me a long time to get that, but I never knew for how long my husband and I were not giving of ourselves fully in bed, because we had fear holding us back.

It’s just something more to ponder. I am sorry for all those who struggle with this…I will give you that it can put a bit of a dent into spontaneity, but I would like to hear from those why you feel NFP has damaged your intimacy and marriage so much?

 

[luvmykids]

Not that I am expressing this as a problem **I **have with NFP, but just reading the above post prompted me to post that maybe for a “typical” cycle it would be 10 days of abstinance, but for a lot of couples for different reasons, there is a lot more abstinence than that. For example, if I was very serious about avoiding a pregnancy, I would have to abstain for at least 15 days a cycle. That’s half a month! And on the majority of the possible days of consumation…it has to be end of the day…So sometimes that doesn’t really leave much for spontaneity or opportunity. I think that’s why the Church has taught to avoid for serious or grave reason, and to prayerfully consider it month to month.

 

[whatevergirl]

Not that I am expressing this as a problem **I **have with NFP, but just reading the above post prompted me to post that maybe for a “typical” cycle it would be 10 days of abstinance, but for a lot of couples for different reasons, there is a lot more abstinence than that. For example, if I was very serious about avoiding a pregnancy, I would have to abstain for at least 15 days a cycle. That’s half a month! And on the majority of the possible days of consumation…it has to be end of the day…So sometimes that doesn’t really leave much for spontaneity or opportunity. I think that’s why the Church has taught to avoid for serious or grave reason, and to prayerfully consider it month to month.

hi luvmykids;

Yes…agreed. I did put a caviat in my post about spontaneity…I will agree–that can put a damper on intimacy at times.

 

[Michael_Saint]

Very enlightening thread - didn’t know there were so many people who had bad experiences w/NFP.

But here is the solution to the problem (and take it with a grain of salt - I am 30, not married, a virgin):

1. Prayer and the Sacraments.
2. Bear your Cross as Christ called us to (Mark 8:34).

Yes, I know what you are thinking: “Duh!” And some of you are thinking, “yeah, yeah, more ‘cheesy’ pietistic advice”. BUT - it really is the solution to the problem.

If NFP is difficult, you need to transform your desire into love for God (that is what bearing the cross does). If NFP is difficult, the one thing that makes us able to bear those difficult situations with joy is prayer, for “Apart from me you can do nothing”.

This answer requires faith to accept - and unfortunately many of us are a little weak in that department. But if you don’t have the faith to embrace it, you will all continue to struggle.

It is the bearing of the Cross and Prayer and the Sacraments that allow me to go without sex 24-7. That’s a lot tougher than being able to do it 10 days a month, folks!

 

[Michael_Saint]

I really don’t get why catholic people get married.

Why do you say that, tessi. I really want to know, because I think you might have a good point for saying this that is worth discussing . . .

 

[Michael_Saint]

One Provocative Question:

Do you think the difficulty that many experience with NFP have to do with the fact that some couples are using NFP for reasons other than the “grave reasons” the Popes have said are necessary before one can licitly and morally use it? That it is, in a word, a way for God to express his displeasure?

Just a question - not necessarily an opinion.