Miserable with NFP!

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Quinault said:
If a priest tells a couple that it is OK for them to practice BC other than NFP, who are you to question? In the grand scheme of things a priest that allows that is better than the priest that dressed up like Barney and said the mass. If the priest gives incorrect guidance it is on HIS head before God. Who are we to tell someone NOT TO submit to their priest? Talk to your priest, follow HIS guidance and ignore everyone else that doesn’t know you and your situation. Condemnation from random strangers over the computer shouldn’t keep you from following what your appointed spiritual director tells you to do. Or you can use BC anyway, and leave the church. Destroying a marriage is never a good idea. Personally I would choose birth control over a emotional or legal divorce.
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:whistle:
 
rc8 said:
One thing that has helped me is to not expect anything during the “go times” as you call them. When I expect something, it only makes me frustrated and angry if things do not go my way. I let my wife let me know if she is in the mood. If I don’t expect anything, I can’t be disappointed.
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This is a key point IMO. Disappointment is often much more difficult to deal with and more destructive than abstinence.
 
Quinault said:
If a priest tells a couple that it is OK for them to practice BC other than NFP, who are you to question? In the grand scheme of things a priest that allows that is better than the priest that dressed up like Barney and said the mass. If the priest gives incorrect guidance it is on HIS head before God. Who are we to tell someone NOT TO submit to their priest? Talk to your priest, follow HIS guidance and ignore everyone else that doesn’t know you and your situation. Condemnation from random strangers over the computer shouldn’t keep you from following what your appointed spiritual director tells you to do. Or you can use BC anyway, and leave the church. Destroying a marriage is never a good idea. Personally I would choose birth control over a emotional or legal divorce.
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I was always taught that it is NEVER okay to use ABC or any form of mutilation of sex organs. Is this not in the Catechism?
 
Quinault said:
PM; Have you spoken with your priest about this?** When the rubber hits the road what HE says is more important than anything random strangers online say**. It is interesting. On every other subject on any other thread EVERYONE says “talk to your priest.” But somehow they DON’T when it comes to NFP issues.:confused:
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I’m Orthodox too and know perfectly well where you’re coming from - we obey discerning spiritual fathers who know us and our particular problems and gifts, and who know how to be strict or mild in different situations. It does not seem to be the case in the Catholic Church, however, so what you said may not apply.

Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure it’s an oversimplification: In the RCC, the same rules go for all and they’re in the Catechism and that’s it. So if a priest advises something that is contrary to the Catechism, you cannot obey.
 
Quinault said:
If a priest tells a couple that it is OK for them to practice BC other than NFP, who are you to question? In the grand scheme of things a priest that allows that is better than the priest that dressed up like Barney and said the mass. If the priest gives incorrect guidance it is on HIS head before God. Who are we to tell someone NOT TO submit to their priest? Talk to your priest, follow HIS guidance and ignore everyone else that doesn’t know you and your situation. Condemnation from random strangers over the computer shouldn’t keep you from following what your appointed spiritual director tells you to do. Or you can use BC anyway, and leave the church. Destroying a marriage is never a good idea. Personally I would choose birth control over a emotional or legal divorce.
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From your profile I see you are not Catholic. The Orthodox Churches do have a different teaching on ABC.

We Catholics are bound to know the teaching of the Church and to follow it, we know that individual Priests are fallible human beings and can make mistakes. We also know that individial Priests cannot override the teaching of the Church.
 
paradoxy said:
I’m Orthodox too and know perfectly well where you’re coming from - we obey discerning spiritual fathers who know us and our particular problems and gifts, and who know how to be strict or mild in different situations. It does not seem to be the case in the Catholic Church, however, so what you said may not apply.

Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure it’s an oversimplification: In the RCC, the same rules go for all and they’re in the Catechism and that’s it. So if a priest advises something that is contrary to the Catechism, you cannot obey.
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It’s not a matter of “can or cannot obey”… the teachings in birth control address very core issues of the sacrament of marriage. It’s not just a “rule” in the catechism… does that make sense?

Often times there are areas of unclarity that you should discuss with your priest… for example, a particular marriage situation (former divorce, not sure if marriage was valid, etc, etc, etc) where the legal form is in question.

But the core teachings of marriage and the sanctity of life are not open to interpretation by an individual priest…
 
paradoxy said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure it’s an oversimplification: In the RCC, the same rules go for all and they’re in the Catechism and that’s it. So if a priest advises something that is contrary to the Catechism, you cannot obey.
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I’d only expand your last few words - if the Priest advises something contrary to the Scripture other official doctrine/dogma, we cannot obey. The CCC is a handy dandy tool for having these teachings available to every Joe Catholic in the pew 🙂
 
Of course there is no moral culpability if the layperson is incorrectly advised by priest without true knowledge of the catechism and the teachings of the church…
But that priest would be in that case…
 
Mutilation of organs isn’t what I am encouraging. I am not even encouraging USING birth control. I am simply saying that we should ask our spiritual directors about this. They KNOW US. They know our situation. If as a husband you KNOW that another pregnancy will kill your wife, how can you enjoy sex? Even if you are using NFP? But you can’t be completely celebate either. She is sick enough that she can’t have another child but not so sick that she is incapable of anything else. Everytime you have sex, everytime you have a possible pregnancy you would feel like a potential murderer. You would feel like you killed your wife. You would feel like all your feelings of love, desire for sex and the desire to BE desired are wrong. God created sex to be a GOOD THING. And from what I have read NFP can, for some, make it the obvious. You are only to abstain for a short time, and only when BOTH PARTIES are willing and agree. Telling a couple that YOU DON’T KNOW from across cyber space that they should be celibate for the rest of their marriage is irresponsible, wrong and judgemental.
 
Quinault said:
Telling a couple that YOU DON’T KNOW from across cyber space that they should be celibate for the rest of their marriage is irresponsible, wrong and judgemental.
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No one on this thread has advised that.
 
Quinault said:
Telling a couple that YOU DON’T KNOW from across cyber space that they should be celibate for the rest of their marriage is irresponsible, wrong and judgemental.
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kage_ar said:
No one on this thread has advised that.
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Exactly… quite the contrary! We’re encouraging a technique that is exactly the opposite of remaining celibate!
NFP is challenging and requires lots of constant education… but it’s a viable solution!
 
NFP is not easy on us either. Me and my hubby have been downright miserable at times. But it is either that or complete and total abstinence as neither of us is willing to go against God.
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So here again it is said NFP or complete abstinence.
 
Quinault said:
even with a wink, a nod and a smile the message is clear.
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PM stated that being in bed next to his wife and breathing the smell of her hair drove him to frustration (I am paraphrasing).

During the times when they choose to TTA, perhaps putting a couple of feet of space betweenn the two of them helped the grandparents in quesiton to lessen the frustration.

Twin beds are not a 6 foot wall topped with razor wire.
 
I don’t have the inclination to go thru every post in this (and the many others I have read) and pick out all the times it has been suggested to PM that he be celibate in marriage. But trust me, it has happened many times. He is a man searching for a life perserver and you are all throwing water in his face!
 
Many, many of you have made it clear that if he practices any form of birth control it MUST be NFP. And that if that isn’t good enough for him that they should just have a celibate marriage.
 
Quinault said:
I don’t have the inclination to go thru every post in this (and the many others I have read) and pick out all the times it has been suggested to PM that he be celibate in marriage. But trust me, it has happened many times. He is a man searching for a life perserver and you are all throwing water in his face!
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No… we are saying that NFP requires LOTS of CONSTANT education. And that the particular method he is using may not be the best for him.

Instead of asking for more information and investigating further into these other options the only reply is “NFP SUCKS”…

I’m sorry… that’s not good enough. Don’t complain unless you’re willing to get some solid advice on how to help the situation.
 
kage_ar said:
PM stated that being in bed next to his wife and breathing the smell of her hair drove him to frustration (I am paraphrasing).

During the times when they choose to TTA, perhaps putting a couple of feet of space betweenn the two of them helped the grandparents in quesiton to lessen the frustration.

Twin beds are not a 6 foot wall topped with razor wire.
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He has stated several times that the time when they can’t have relations due to fertility or his wife’s health can last for MONTHS. I can see how he would feel like it is a wall of razor wire.
 
And I can’t imagine how hard it must feel for his poor wife. When she WANTS her husband she can’t do anything. When she can “safely” have relations she has no desire to do so. They must both feel heartbroken, hurt, rejected, guilty, horrible. Is that how sex within marriage should feel?
 
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