Miserable with NFP!

[PennitentMan]

I don’t have the inclination to go thru every post in this (and the many others I have read) and pick out all the times it has been suggested to PM that he be celibate in marriage. But trust me, it has happened many times. He is a man searching for a life preserver and you are all throwing water in his face!

The sad truth is that there are no life preservers to be found.

I understand what they are saying, because, reading the CCC, it’s obvious that there is no way out.

Celibacy is the only Catholic solution for me. That’s part of my frustration. And of course, one catholic man is not going to change anything…and what will I change, get the Catholic Church to reverse it’s stance on contraception?

It might be a viable option for a married couple like us. I mean add some non-abortive barrier type methods (maybe even two) to the current NFP mix, may increase the number of days we could be intimate, and may increase our changes and a healthy sex life. Who knows…

My question now would be, is this teaching “ex cathera”? . As far as I know, an encyclical is not an infallible document.

So, how do we know? Was this teaching taught as infallible? I don’t think so…The last ex cathera teaching, as far as I know was the immaculate conception of Mary.

And then, EM in FL, I guess I’m starting to see myself as being a bit more pro-Non abortive ABC here…who knew…

 

[Em_in_FL]

And I can’t imagine how hard it must feel for his poor wife. When she WANTS her husband she can’t do anything. When she can “safely” have relations she has no desire to do so. They must both feel heartbroken, hurt, rejected, guilty, horrible. Is that how sex within marriage should feel?

I agree entirely.
Which is why further education and possibly a different technique may be necessary.

It is medically impossible for a woman to ovulate her entire cycle. Therefore there should be much more opportunity to embrace then they are currently taking advantage of.
The confusion lies in reading the signs properly. This is where technique and education are critical.

 

[kage_ar]

I don’t have the inclination to go thru every post in this (and the many others I have read) and pick out all the times it has been suggested to PM that he be celibate in marriage. But trust me, it has happened many times. He is a man searching for a life perserver and you are all throwing water in his face!

Married couples have promised to be open to life.

If they have a serious reason to avoid pregnancy, they can abstain or practice one of many forms of NFP. The couple should evaluate the need to TTA (Try To Avoid) every month, you do not decide one time for the rest of your life or marriage.

 

[Quinault]

The desire for a man is constant. Having seperate beds won’t change how he feels during the day. Marriage is a process of sanctification for both people. I understand that. I understand how we can be trying for each other. I understand how marriage can’t be perfect all the time. I have been wed for nearly 11 years. We dated for three years before we wed and consumated our marriage. It was and is wonderful to share that unity with my husband. And if someone were to tell me that “you did it while you were dating, why not do it now” in reference to abstanince I would be quite dumbfounded. In the Catholic church a marriage isn’t considered valid if it can’t be consumated right? So as long as you consumate it once that is all that matters? Or as along as you have sex often enough to have children it is OK?

 

[ack]

Catholic Answers wrote about your position some time ago – their take on it is here:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9202fea2.asp

My question now would be, is this teaching “ex cathera”? . As far as I know, an encyclical is not an infallible document.

So, how do we know? Was this teaching taught as infallible? I don’t think so…The last ex cathera teaching, as far as I know was the immaculate conception of Mary.

 

[Quinault]

As an aside; I imagine part of the reason that the EO church takes this on a case by case basis is because they have many married priests. I remember when the Catholic church issued schedules in which it was permissible to have sex. Woe to those that were practicing NFP and only had “safe” days when it wasn’t permissible to have sex!

 

[Em_in_FL]

Celibacy is the only Catholic solution for me.

Have you read any of my posts?
Have you asked ANY questions on how to further educate yourself on NFP?
Do you consider yourself an NFP expert? I sure don’t! There’s TONS of information out there.

Have you looked into every single NFP technique?
When was the last time you read an NFP book?

Have your wife’s doctors mentioned that she actually ovulates her entire cycle? (because this is unlikely) Have you tried to become more educated on how to read the fertility signs better?

Go ahead… give up! I really personally don’t care!
But you keep coming back here to CAF!.. maybe for a reason?

 

[kage_ar]

As an aside; I imagine part of the reason that the EO church takes this on a case by case basis is because they have many married priests. I remember when the Catholic church issued schedules in which it was permissible to have sex. Woe to those that were practicing NFP and only had “safe” days when it wasn’t permissible to have sex!

Please document from an authoratitive source the claim that the Church issued schedules in which it was permissible to have sex.

 

[PennitentMan]

No… we are saying that NFP requires LOTS of CONSTANT education. And that the particular method he is using may not be the best for him.

Instead of asking for more information and investigating further into these other options the only reply is “NFP SUCKS”…

I’m sorry… that’s not good enough. Don’t complain unless you’re willing to get some solid advice on how to help the situation.

And how do you know that we have not looked into different types of NFP?

We tried the Basal Body Temperature method, but she sleeps very irregularly. And I have also heard that the smallest thing can influence the readings, like even light in the room???

We have used the Sympto Thermal method, but temperature fluxuated too much. We observed mucus, but there are fertile mucus all over the place. There were signs of painful ovaries, like in middelsmertz(?) method, but the other signs didn’t correlate with it.

We have tried a pure billings ovulation method that also didn’t work. (we were using billings when we conceived this last time.

I didn’t reach the “NFP Sucks” stance lightly.

But this is getting me nowhere except down, so I’ll take a breather for a while…

 

[Sure]

As an aside; I imagine part of the reason that the EO church takes this on a case by case basis is because they have many married priests. I remember when the Catholic church issued schedules in which it was permissible to have sex. Woe to those that were practicing NFP and only had “safe” days when it wasn’t permissible to have sex!

When was this???

 

[Quinault]

Which is the graver sin;

Divorcing because the lack of sex causes too many problems

Using a condom in addition to NFP so that you can have sex more than twice a month and still beign Catholic

Leaving the Catholic church because there is no support and no help.

Are YOU volunterring to move in, check his wife’s temp, mucus, cerival position and recorind it correctly? It is EASY to sit a world away online and say that they are doing it wrong if it isn’t working.

 

[MCL]

A woman I used to work with was so afraid of getting pregnant that she was on the pill, used a diaphragm, and made her husband use a condom. Imagine that spontaneous love-making!

Took pill today? Check!
Diaphragm? Check!
Spermicidal gel? Check!
Condom? Check!

Let’s go!

 

[Em_in_FL]

And how do you know that we have not looked into different types of NFP?

We tried the Basal Body Temperature method, but she sleeps very irregularly. And I have also heard that the smallest thing can influence the readings, like even light in the room???

We have used the Sympto Thermal method, but temperature fluxuated too much. We observed mucus, but there are fertile mucus all over the place. There were signs of painful ovaries, like in middelsmertz(?) method, but the other signs didn’t correlate with it.

We have tried a pure billings ovulation method that also didn’t work. (we were using billings when we conceived this last time.

I didn’t reach the “NFP Sucks” stance lightly.

But this is getting me nowhere except down, so I’ll take a breather for a while…

See? Now we’re getting somewhere!
There are other options available!

I’m personally not familiar with the Creighton Method, but many here swear by it! Maybe something to consider researching?

On the sympto-thermal method… did she ever take internal mucous check? Or cervical checks?
I personally would not be successful using the sympto-thermal method if I only did external mucous checks. Internal cervical checks are critical for me to understand my cycle.

Every woman is unique and one method may not fit all…

Just something to consider!
You’ll be in my prayers.

Edited to add…
The things you mentioned may be due to an underlying fertility issue. There are underlying issues (like PCOS and thyroid problems) that can affect fertility signs (like temperature and mucous readings).
You mentioned that your wife is ill… could the illness itself be affecting these signs? A good NFP OB would be able to really help in this area!

 

[Quinault]

When was this???

It was arounf the middle ages. Give me a bit to get my reference.

 

[Quinault]

Think about this; up until 1945 it was not permissible to perform an operation to save a mothers life if she had a tubla pregnancy until AFTER the tube burst. I wonder how many women died because of that. And even then it was merely “re-interpreted” to say that surgery before the tube burst was “indirect” killing of the fetus. Who is to say that teh issue of NFP won’t be “re-interpreted”?

 

[Quinault]

I was incorrect. It was around the 8th century. I am going to have to do a bit of searching to get the actual edict/info in its entirety. I don’t want to post an article about an article about the time.

 

[PennitentMan]

Leaving the Catholic church because there is no support and no help.

So, how is Orthodoxy different from Catholicism?

Can you fill me in?
Do they have:

Real presence?
Appostolic tradition?
Chair of Peter?
Confession for forgiveness of sin?
All seven sacraments?

I’m quite curious.

Thanks!

 

[Quinault]

I can’t answer that on here. I don’t want to appear to try and draw you away from your church. There are many wonderful books that you can find thru amazon.com and various other websites. Or you can go to an orthodox chat/BB and ask more there.

If you like I can send you the link to one.

 

[Quinault]

A woman I used to work with was so afraid of getting pregnant that she was on the pill, used a diaphragm, and made her husband use a condom. Imagine that spontaneous love-making!

Took pill today? Check!
Diaphragm? Check!
Spermicidal gel? Check!
Condom? Check!

Let’s go!

That would be awful, and I have known women like that. Children are a blessing. But I see using a barrier method as more of a “please God no” rather than a paranoia. My BIL was concieved after my MIL had a tubal ligation.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I didn’t reach the “NFP Sucks” stance lightly…

I am not a huge fan of NFP either, (which is why my husband and I don’t use it anymore. The inherant difficulty in using NFP helped us decide our reasons for avoiding pregnancy weren’t worth it.)

If people have serious reasons to avoid pregnancy, NFP might become a scape goat for their real frustrations. Whatever the reasons for avoiding pregancy–from illness, to another pregnacy posing a life threatening risk, to the emotional stress of raising the existing children, to financial hardships, etc., etc. Those are what stinks, not the Church teachings. The Church does not require couples to use NFP.