Miserable with NFP!

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PM; Ideally you can find a middle ground within Catholicism. I will pray for you.

One of my best friends is Catholic. I quite respect the Catholic church. If I appear not to I apologize and ask for forgiveness. But I see a hurting desperate man, and I feel overwhelming sympathy for him.
 
PM,

PLEASE PLEASE read my past posts… you haven’;t tried the one method that is actually designed to help health issues…

Your complaint about constant muccuss could be an actual health issues…that CAN Be cleared up.

you also said: "It might be a viable option for a married couple like us. I mean add some non-abortive barrier type methods (maybe even two) to the current NFP mix, may increase the number of days we could be intimate, and may increase our changes and a healthy sex life. Who knows…"

sorry, but using contraception would NOT be a healthy sex life. You may think it was healthy before when you used it, but there were severe spiritual and emotional underworkings that happened you might not understand right now. Gambling your soul so you could have more sex does not jive with a Catholic life.

and to the other poster who says that a priest doing liturgical abuse is worse than one that teaches heresy and gambles with their flock’s souls…you are wrong. 2 seperate issues, and a liturgical abuse, although wrong, has to do with the changing discipline of the faith. guiding people to sin is causing their souls to be in danger.

Is it better to divorce than to engage in constant sin? Well, if divorcing will save your soul, then yes.
 
Especially in light of the fact that he made the statements “Whose God? What God?” in his homily. That man will answer for MUCH of his theology.
 
Not off track. I made a statement. It was refuted, and I provided proof that the Barney mass was not merely liturgical abuse. If it was merely liturgical abuse I wouldn’t have said that it was worse than a priest giving permssion to a couple to use BC.

I am still looking up the source. I figure you wouldn’t like a pretestant one:D So I am trying to find something in the catholic church archives on New advent. Mostly abortion information comes up, so it is quite time consuming. Between that and housework, nursing a newborn and my other two kids it could take me a bit of time;)
 
I actually figured that as Catholics it was common knowledge. In my inquirers class as an Orthodox we go thru all the councils and such to know how we came to what we believe now. Every church has it’s people that have wacky ideas. All the protestants that are big on Martin Luther conveniently forget that he venerated the all holy Theotokos and call it “Mariology.”
 
Quinault said:
He has stated several times that the time when they can’t have relations due to fertility or his wife’s health can last for MONTHS. I can see how he would feel like it is a wall of razor wire.
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From a medical standpoint, I’m interested in this condition. Is there a name for it? How many specialists have the OP and his wife been to? Has any doctor or other medical professional suggested a treatment plan? Has the wife looked for any groups that cater to women with this condition?

My FMIL suffered from a condition that caused late term miscarriages for almost 20 years before she found a specialist that correctly diagnosed her, treated her and allowed her to carry to term a healthy boy.

It would seem in light of the OP’s posts, that the issues causing him unhappiness extend well past NFP methods. The OP would do well to search out many experts, varied experts, on several topics. Armed with information and guidance, he may indeed find his marriage restored.

Some basic resources:

www.christopherwest.com (OP: taking your wife to one of his seminars can be an excuse for a romantic evening together).

www.marriagebuilders.com (This is a secular professional with clear-cut guidance for promoting and maintaining intimacy in marriage.)

www.foccus.com (Although used frequently for engaged couples, this site also offers countless resources for married couples).

www.retrouvaille.org (Marriage enrichment retreats that can blossom new romance and intimacy)

www.pairsvirginia.com (This program is scientifically based, with studies in marriage and psychology the foundation for its teachings)

Perhaps contacting Catholic Family Services or your local archdiocese will help as well.

Also, look around for any hospitals or practicing medical professionals who offer NFP certification. There are still 3 more methods you can learn about that might be more to your liking.

It is very common for people to reach points in their marriage where they feel disillusioned, cheated or let down. Romance comes and goes, and hardships that you may not have prepared for can pop up without warning. Building a strong foundation with your wife and daily committing yourself to your marriage is really all that will keep your relationship going.

OP, if you are interested in any of the programs I listed, or any of the books/materials on those sites, message me and I will buy you a set of tickets or a book.
 
And I am sure I will come across similar holes in some orthodox belivers knowledge. It isn’t a slam. I really thought that the average Catholic already knew about it.:confused:
 
Quinault said:
And I am sure I will come across similar holes in some orthodox belivers knowledge. It isn’t a slam. I really thought that the average Catholic already knew about it.:confused:
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There are many popular myths about the Catholic Church - interesting that I’ve yet to find anyone who can back them up. The Church is interesting, all the official teachings are available to research. Seems maybe someone told you a Catholic urban legned?
 
No I have seen it numerous times over the years both in Catholic and Protestant writings. I am not saying that NOW there is a schedule. But at one point the Catholic church DID have one. Obviously it was rendered a poor position or teaching and that is why it isn’t in use/enforced today.
 
At one point there were a few protestants that said all sex outside the confines of conception (or trying to concieve) was wrong. Every branch of the tree of Christianity has wibble wobbled on this issue at one point in time.
 
Quinault said:
No I have seen it numerous times over the years both in Catholic and Protestant writings. I am not saying that NOW there is a schedule. But at one point the Catholic church DID have one. Obviously it was rendered a poor position or teaching and that is why it isn’t in use/enforced today.
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If you cannot document, the charitable thing to do would be to retract.
 
As I am still looking it (I have said this I think about THREE TIMES NOW) I won’t retract at this point. If after further research I cannot find an online reference to place here, I wil retract.

My, are we from a fast food culture?😉
 
PM,

First of all, I want to apologize to you for calling our NFP plights “similar” in my thread “what is wrong with this marriage???”. That was before I realized that your wife is ill and that her cycles are so irregular. That definitely complicates things- much more than my DH and I are dealing with. I keep you in my prayers, and especially your wife- that answers will come and that doors that lead back to health and vibrancy will begin opening for you.

I hear your pain and frustration resonating in every word. I know the feeling of having “no way out” when you consider the options. Of wishing that your marriage could be all of the beautiful things you learned about in pre-cana classes and that the unitive aspect of sex could infuse your marriage a lot more often than it is.

It sounds like you’re afraid of endangering your wife with another pregnancy, but loving her so much that it hurts to not be intimate with her. That must be so difficult for you. And the church just seems so placidly unsympathetic about it. I think that the church should be way more vocal and proactive in this arena. First of all, they don’t say much to the huge percentage of catholics that use ABC. And second, they don’t acknowlege that a fair percentage of the small percentage of those using NFP are struggling with it and hurting in their marriages. Where is the support?

I hear both of you, the OP and PM, all the way. NFP doesn’t work for everyone.
 
LilyM said:
Do you recognise that your tubal was wrong and sinful and a heinous offence to God who gave you your body for HIS purposes rather than for your own?

Even if those purposes involve suffering for yourself - well, so did they for Jesus. Where would you be, after all, if He had chosen to stay comfortable and not suffer (far more suffering than you ever have borne or ever will bear) for your sake?

If you are not truly repentant, and it seems you aren’t, then your priest was wrong to give you absolution. More than that, regardless of his words you were not absolved of that sin and remain unabsolved unless truly repentant.
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Let ye without sin cast the first stone!

I think some of you guys need to take a step back with the judgement here. She had 5 children which nearly bankrupt her family and thus she made the decision, at the urging of other “good Catholics” to have the tubal. Remember that for something to be a mortal sin one must be fully aware and in a sound state of mind… I’m not sure considering the circumstances her act falls into the MS category at all. We all have our moments of failure, Praise the Lord that Christ’s mercy is infinte… as should be ours 🙂

My wife and are in the RCIA process right now and do our Rite of Acceptance this Sunday and then our youngest will be baptized Catholic rather than Presbyterian the next Sunday.

Coming from both a Psychological and Ministeral / Religious background that encouraged ABC, Self Stimulation etc… NFP and the Church’s teachings are a drastic change. However the Theology of the Body makes sense and we, as a couple are working on implementing NFP… it’s not easy, and it’s not going to be easy but I believe we can make it with His help. I also believe there will be times in which we will fail as well… once again, Praise the Lord for Christ’s infinite mercy.

Before the Lord opened my eyes and showed me the answers to some Theological problems I had struggled with for years (which are answered in the Church’s teachings) I had planned to get a visctomy after our 3 or 4th child. Almost all of my male friends have had one to keep their wife from having to go on the pill. Some of these men are ministers, others are some of the most Godly men I know. They are all protestants though and none of their churches teach anything else…or actually even suggest that ABC or sterilization might be a sin.

Thus I go back to the requirements for a mortal sin. One must know that it’s a mortal sin, and still proceed with it. This excludes my friends I guess… but not me unless I had some kind of a meltdown or something (j/k).

The thing is, and maybe this will help the original poster, I have 3 wonderful sons… who DEFINITELY take up almost all our time. We like you have very little time together. If my mother wasn’t in town to take them every so often it might be over a month before we could find the time to renew our marraige convenant 🙂 and this from a couple who… well lets just say enjoy renewing that covenant often.

It would be great to be able to go back to old times, NFP may space those times out farther or keep them similar with our schedules but… God has blessed us with 3 wonderful children after years of trying with no success (I believe in part to orthotricycline an ABC). I didn’t think we could afford 3… and we really can’t but we are making it. While we aren’t sure how, and do fail by using an ABC from time to time, if we aren’t at least trying to follow God’s will we are just snubbing our nose rather than showing how thankful we truly are for our sons.

Sincerely,
Joe
 
kittery said:
It sounds like you’re afraid of endangering your wife with another pregnancy, but loving her so much that it hurts to not be intimate with her. That must be so difficult for you. And the church just seems so placidly unsympathetic about it. I think that the church should be way more vocal and proactive in this arena. First of all, they don’t say much to the huge percentage of catholics that use ABC. And second, they don’t acknowlege that a fair percentage of the small percentage of those using NFP are struggling with it and hurting in their marriages. Where is the support?

I hear both of you, the OP and PM, all the way. NFP doesn’t work for everyone.
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I think you make an incredible point, Kittery…
The church gives couples one impression during pre-cana (expressing the glories of NFP), and another once they’re married and living as a regular parishioner. There is no continuing support for NFP (at least that I’ve seen in my parish).
We have been blessed to have been self motivated in many ways and go after NFP education on my own… and have been able to implement it well on my own. That doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone.
I guess my personal push for NFP is in response to that lack of interest by the church… I want to stand up and BE that support for others who are struggling. Maybe I should become a teacher and actually DO something with this desire.

I guess I didn’t realize that NFP is not easy for everyone and I apologize. I wish the church was stronger in this area so we could support each other.
 
:byzsoc:
agapewolf said:
Is it better to divorce than to engage in constant sin? Well, if divorcing will save your soul, then yes.
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This is the saddest thing I have ever seen or heard. This is such a low view of marriage that I feel like crying.:byzsoc: Lord have mercy indeed!
 
Quinault said:
:byzsoc:

This is the saddest thing I have ever seen or heard. This is such a low view of marriage that I feel like crying.:byzsoc: Lord have mercy indeed!
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**
The point being made is that we were created for a specific purpose: to know and love and serve God. EVERYTHING else is secondary. If anything we do causes offense to God then we need to correct it. Being imperfect beings our methods of correction are sometimes sad (divorce is an example). But remember that divorce itself is not a sin. A tragedy, yes, but not a sin.

Malia**
 
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