Misguided Loyalties and the Military

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Correct. However, the peasants were not ‘turfed off’ and taxed til their back teeth hurt so to speak until the enlightened new thinking of Luther and the magnificent princes.

😃
That’s true – things were pretty good in Ireland prior to the Reformation.
 
abu kamoon:
Our politicians invaded Iraq, primarily to steal their oil, and not for us, but for the big oil companies.
Well that depends on how you define ‘our’. If you define ‘our’ as being French, German, Russian, and certain UN bureacrats then you’re right.
abu kamoon:
Osam bin Laden seems to have been forgotten in all the money that is being made in these undeclared wars.
Forgotten by who? Which wars are undeclared?
abu kamoon:
Wars are started by politicians, who sometimes disguise themselves as religious leaders.
Good description of OBL and friends. 👍
abu kamoon:
The thing to remember is that these radical groups have been around for hundreds of years. They were content to kill each other, or Muslims that they considered heretics. It wasn’t until our politicians interjected our military into their war that we became a target of the terrorists.
Um… not. OBL needs the American/Israeli media monster in order to distract millions upon millions of underprivileged muslims from waking up to the reality that what he espouses is not Islam, but his own gnostic religion: a religion which does not offer freedom and joy but which guarantees bondage and misery.
abu kamoon:
Most of the Muslims are nice people.
Yes, they are. But what does this have to do with OBL and friends?
abu kamoon:
Our polilticians and their lap dogs in the media have demonized them just as the Nazis demonized the Jews.
Who is ‘our’? CNN is a lapdog? If so, a lapdog to which master?
abu kamoon:
It is a small number or radicals who make up the terrorists.
This is of comfort to those who died on 9/11 how exactly?
abu kamoon:
The longer we continue to occupy these nations in the Middle East, the easier it is for the terrorists to recruit new cannon fodder.
Terrorists recruit cannon fodder by means of terror. That is why they are known as ‘terrorists.’
 
Just a few questions:

Which loyalties would people say are ‘misguided’?

Who gets to say they are misguided and on what basis?
 
Just watch him when he takes questions from reporters. He mumbles a few words, and then stops. You can see that he is listening to something. He says a few more words, and then stops to listen again.

I never realized it, because I don’t watch TV. When I saw it on a Youtube video, it was obvious. Then, I started watching other press conferences where he takes questions. I have never seen anyone answer a question, and stop in the middle of the answer for a few seconds, and then continue on like this guy.

Check it our for yourself.
And this is evidence? Obviously you have not been around very long or watched many press conferences, have you?
 
And this is evidence? Obviously you have not been around very long or watched many press conferences, have you?
Some people are too busy to watch press conferences. For example, if you’re not alert and watching constantly, the Council of Foreign Relations might come up through the toilet and grab you.:whacky:
 
Ani Ibi wrote:

“Well that depends on how you define ‘our’. If you define ‘our’ as being French, German, Russian, and certain UN bureacrats then you’re right.”

By “our politicians”, I am referring to those public servants who have been elected and appointed to work for the American people.

“Forgotten by who? Which wars are undeclared?”

OBL has been forgotten, with all the money to be made in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why did they send our military (including me) to Iraq? Why weren’t letters of marque issued (as provided in our Constitution) to capture or kill OBL? Apparently even the American people have forgotten about him, with all the nonesense about Weapons of Mass Deception, and Iran getting ready to attack us. I am referring to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither have been declared by Congress, as demanded by our Constitution.

“Um… not. OBL needs the American/Israeli media monster in order to distract millions upon millions of underprivileged muslims from waking up to the reality that what he espouses is not Islam, but his own gnostic religion: a religion which does not offer freedom and joy but which guarantees bondage and misery.”

He doesn’t seem overly concerned with Switzerland, or Sweden of any other nation that is not involved in Middle Eastern wars. As soon as we adopt the traditional American foreign policy (that served us well for the first hundred years of our existence), and traded with other nations, but didn’t get involved in their wars, and didn’t subsidize them, we will be free of the terrorist threat.

“Yes, they are. But what does this have to do with OBL and friends?”

The point is, our politicians and the media have directed the righteous rage of the American people against Muslims, for the crimes of OBL.

“Who is ‘our’? CNN is a lapdog? If so, a lapdog to which master?”

I have aready explaine “our politicians” above. CNN is indeed one of the lapdogs, as is Fox News and MSNBC, the New York Times et al. The master is the Council on Foreign Relations. The benefactors of these policies are members of the CFR.

“This is of comfort to those who died on 9/11 how exactly?”

This fact is not meant to comfort. It is meant to demonstrate that Muslims in general, should not be blamed for this terrorist act.

“Terrorists recruit cannon fodder by means of terror. That is why they are known as ‘terrorists.’”

Sometimes they do, but usually they recruit through the use of propaganda. The occupation of Islamic nations, the torture and humiliation of captive at Abu Ghraib and Guantanimo, the wanton killings by Blackwater all are used to inflame the populace. OBL and his friends are not nice people, but why give him ammunition to use against us?

"
 
Obviously folks have nothing substantive to bring to bear against his policies
Are you kidding me?

I have never personally attacked Mr. Bush, I have said plenty of things about his policy, look at SolCalRC’s criticisms of his economic policies.
 
abu kamoon:
Ani Ibi wrote:

“Well that depends on how you define ‘our’. If you define ‘our’ as being French, German, Russian, and certain UN bureacrats then you’re right.”

By “our politicians”, I am referring to those public servants who have been elected and appointed to work for the American people.
Do you believe that ‘our’ elected reps are not working for the American people? If so, then on what is your belief based?
abu kamoon:
“Forgotten by who? Which wars are undeclared?”

OBL has been forgotten, with all the money to be made in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Who has forgotten OBL? What is your evidence?
abu kamoon:
Why did they send our military (including me) to Iraq?
Because Saddam Hussein violated the terms of the cease fire from GW1?
abu kamoon:
Why weren’t letters of marque issued (as provided in our Constitution) to capture or kill OBL?
Because there were other means to stop him?
abu kamoon:
Apparently even the American people have forgotten about him
Wishful thinking.
abu kamoon:
with all the nonesense about Weapons of Mass Deception
You mean the propaganda that there are no WMDs – repeated often enough that some confuse repetition with truth?
abu kamoon:
and Iran getting ready to attack us.
I guess you don’t put any store into what Iranian leaders actually say and what they actually plan for. More wishful thinking?
abu kamoon:
I am referring to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither have been declared by Congress, as demanded by our Constitution.
The Congressional Resolutions are granted by Congress.
abu kamoon:
“Um… not. OBL needs the American/Israeli media monster in order to distract millions upon millions of underprivileged muslims from waking up to the reality that what he espouses is not Islam, but his own gnostic religion: a religion which does not offer freedom and joy but which guarantees bondage and misery.”

He doesn’t seem overly concerned with Switzerland, or Sweden of any other nation that is not involved in Middle Eastern wars.
I think it is you who have forgotten OBL and what his stated purpose has been.
abu kamoon:
As soon as we adopt the traditional American foreign policy (that served us well for the first hundred years of our existence), and traded with other nations, but didn’t get involved in their wars, and didn’t subsidize them, we will be free of the terrorist threat.
Wishful thinking.
abu kamoon:
The point is, our politicians and the media have directed the righteous rage of the American people against Muslims, for the crimes of OBL.
The distinction has been CLEARLY made between OBL’s teachings and what ordinary Muslims actually believe.
abu kamoon:
I have aready explaine “our politicians” above. CNN is indeed one of the lapdogs, as is Fox News and MSNBC, the New York Times et al.
This is merely re-stating and unproven conclusion. Repetition does not make truth.
abu kamoon:
The master is the Council on Foreign Relations. The benefactors of these policies are members of the CFR.
Evidence please. Explain how this is so.
abu kamoon:
“This is of comfort to those who died on 9/11 how exactly?”

This fact is not meant to comfort.
Evidently.
abu kamoon:
It is meant to demonstrate that Muslims in general, should not be blamed for this terrorist act.
Tell that to OBL and AQ who like to take gleeful credit for terrorist acts on behalf of Muslims.

abu kamoon said:
“Terrorists recruit cannon fodder by means of terror. That is why they are known as ‘terrorists.’”

Sometimes they do, but usually they recruit through the use of propaganda.

And a critical part of terrorist propaganda is terror.
abu kamoon:
The occupation of Islamic nations, the torture and humiliation of captive at Abu Ghraib and Guantanimo, the wanton killings by Blackwater all are used to inflame the populace.
Untruths and half-truths spread among a largely uneducated population are inflammatory. This surprises you how?
abu kamoon:
OBL and his friends are not nice people, but why give him ammunition to use against us?
I would ask you the same question. 🙂
 
Are you kidding me?

I have never personally attacked Mr. Bush, I have said plenty of things about his policy, look at SolCalRC’s criticisms of his economic policies.
The lion’s share of anti-Bush sentiment which I have witnessed goes along these lines:

“Bush is a m - - - n.” This is an ad hominem attack and as such is unreasonable.
 
Ani Ibi:
Just a few questions:

Which loyalties would people say are ‘misguided’?Who gets to say they are misguided and on what basis?
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IvanKaramozov:
That’s in the OP
And I notice that many interesting things were being said in response to the OP, but these questions had lost emphasis. So I am asking people to specify on those questions. Thank you.
 
Ani Ibi wrote:

“Do you believe that ‘our’ elected reps are not working for the American people? If so, then on what is your belief based?”

No, I don’t believe that “our” elected reps are working for the American people. I think that it is rather obvious that they are working for special interests. These special interests are their benefactors. They contribute to their campaigns, and take care of them when they retire from politics (or get voted out).

Do you think that our monetary situation of inflationary federal reserve notes, rather than gold and silver as specified in the Constitution is for the benefit of the American people? The fact that our politicians have made us dependent on foreign oil, when we have plenty right here at home (a two hundred years supply on the north slope of Alaska, alone) is for the benefit of the American people? Was the invasion of Iraq for our benefit? What about the lie about “Weapons of Mass Destruction”?

What about our foreign policy that has made us subject to terrorist attack, and the loss of our civil rights at the hands of our politicians? Is that for our benefit?

What about NAFTA? What about the North American Union? I don’t hear the American people clamering for these things. It is the special interests that want them. The result is cheap labor, our manufacturing jobs going to China. Hardly for “our” benefit.

“Who has forgotten OBL? What is your evidence?”

Our politicians have forgotten him, if they ever meant to catch him. The evidence is, they still haven’t been able to get him. Apparently, they allowed he and his followers to leave Tora Bora unmolested.

" Because Saddam Hussein violated the terms of the cease fire from GW1?"

Interesting. GW1, as well as GW2 both violated the US Constitution by waging war without a formal Declaration of War by the US Congress. So, how are terms of a cease fire resulting from a war that violated our own Constitution binding on another nation? Aren’t we being selective?

“Because there were other means to stop him?”

Really? Has he been stopped? I am under the impression that he is still at large.

“Apparently even the American people have forgotten about him”

I hear the a lot more about the situation in Iraq than I do about OBL. This is because the media (lap dogs of the politicians) rarely mention OBL.

“You mean the propaganda that there are no WMDs – repeated often enough that some confuse repetition with truth?”

WMDs are like UFOs. People believe in them because they want to, not because they exist. Are we to believe that they exist, we just haven’t been able to find them?

And even if they did exist, how does that justify an attack on a sovereign nation? Doesn’t China have these weapons? China has killed over 35 million of their own people. They have supplied terrorists all over the globe. How about Pakistan? How about us?

“I guess you don’t put any store into what Iranian leaders actually say and what they actually plan for. More wishful thinking?”

Iran is NOT about to attack us, as much as our politicians, and the media tell us otherwise. China, on the other hand, has threatened to send missiles at us if we persist in treating the Republic of China on Taiwan (Free China) as a sovereign nation. It makes a lot more sense for us to work to destabilize the Communist government of China than to justify an attack on Iran.

“The Congressional Resolutions are granted by Congress.”

The Constitution does not give the Congress the authority to delegate the waging of war to the Executive Branch. It says that only Congress can declare war, not give the president the authority to do whatever he wants. Why hasn’t Congress declared war since 1941?

“I think it is you who have forgotten OBL and what his stated purpose has been.”

I know what OBL has stated. I have the book THROUGH OUR ENEMIES EYS by Michael Scheuer, and I have seen OBL’s videos with English text. He has stated that it is because of our involvement in the Middle East that the terrorists have attacked us. Where he is really off the mark is where he refers to American troops as “Crusaders” trying to destroy Islam. Rather than attacking Islam, or spreading Christianity as OBL thinks, the real motive seems to be to steal the oil for the big oil companies. The proof? This Administration pressuring the Iraqi government into passing the Iraqi Oil Bill, which will turn over something like 91% of Iraq’s oil to the big oil companies. Then watch the prices rise!

“The distinction has been CLEARLY made between OBL’s teachings and what ordinary Muslims actually believe.”

Then why do our politicians and the media continue to refer to the terrorists as “Islamofascists”? If that isn’t meant to generate hatred against Muslims, I don’t what else they could do.

“Evidence please. Explain how this is so.”

If you go on the CFR’s website and look at their membership list, this truth will become self evident. The people who write our foreign policy, those who execute it, those who benefit financially from it, those who report (propagandize) the news, those who are involved in the large banks, & c. It’s not the great unwashed masses who are running this country. It’s the special interests, probably best identified as the Council on Foreign Relations that is. Can you imagine if there were over a hundred John Birch Society members in the Bush Administration? Or the major media executives were all JBS? Or the executives of the major corporations making all that money in these undeclared wars? The membership of the John Birch Society is quite a bit larger than the CFR. Why is the CFR so over represented in government, media, business, finance & C? Because they are running the show. And for THEIR benefit.

“Tell that to OBL and AQ who like to take gleeful credit for terrorist acts on behalf of Muslims.”

Politicians have always used religion as an excuse to wage war, generate hatred and maintain their power. There is nothing new under the sun.

“Untruths and half-truths spread among a largely uneducated population are inflammatory. This surprises you how?”

It certainly doesn’t surprise me. Politicians have done this for a long time. Our own politicians do it. It’s called propaganda.
 
In the absence of evidence, I am out of here.

I have posted so much evidence on the questions resurrected yet again in this thread that it is ridiculous. Am I going to repost it? Not very likely. Look it up. Do a search for WMD, for example, and enter my name.

For some it seems that repetition equates to truth. Repetition does not make evidence. Happy Easter all. 🙂
 
In the absence of evidence, I am out of here.

I have posted so much evidence on the questions resurrected yet again in this thread that it is ridiculous. Am I going to repost it? Not very likely. Look it up. Do a search for WMD, for example, and enter my name.

For some it seems that repetition equates to truth. Repetition does not make evidence. Happy Easter all. 🙂
I take it you don’t believe the Council of Foreign Relations is hiding under your bed?😉
 
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