Missing Mass Conflict!

[surfinpure]

I’m a bit disappointed that you actually questioned whether or not I wanted to be a Catholic. I give my imperfect best, and sometimes, sadly less than that.

To question me personally because of something I do not know…is a knee jerk judgment on your part.

I am not alone in questioning…it is what people do and questions should not be treated with disdain or incredulity.

If everyone who had trouble accepting the Church’s teachings left the Church…it would be one lonely place indeed.

I apologize for questioning your desire to be Catholic, especially without clarifying. I meant it as a rhetorical question only, to illustrate that to be Catholic is to subject oneself to the Magisterium. I believe there is a big difference between asking questions, in order to better understand a Church teaching, and questioning the authority and wisdom of the Church to create a teaching. Yes, many Catholics question Church teaching. Some do it out of sheer ignorance and mean no harm, but many of them do it in a disrespectful, inappropriate way that says they don’t believe the Church has the authority to teach at all. Do you see the distinction I am trying to make?

 

[onetimeposter]

I agree more catechsis is needed. What I am not getting is why folks think missing mass is no big deal? The same holds true for fornication or contraception or any other serious sin.

In some of your posts you were asking why a, previously, faithful man should send himself to hell for missing one mass as if it were no big deal. My question is why on earth would we think it is not a big deal?

I think because the man made one mistake…I just can’t comprehend why an all good and all loving God would refuse his entry into paradise.

 

[fix]

I think because the man made one mistake…I just can’t comprehend why an all good and all loving God would refuse his entry into paradise.

Honestly, mortal sin is never a simple mistake. It is a willful choice to say no to God in a serious matter.

 

[onetimeposter]

I apologize for questioning your desire to be Catholic, especially without clarifying. I meant it as a rhetorical question only, to illustrate that to be Catholic is to subject oneself to the Magisterium. I believe there is a big difference between asking questions, in order to better understand a Church teaching, and questioning the authority and wisdom of the Church to create a teaching. Yes, many Catholics question Church teaching. Some do it out of sheer ignorance and mean no harm, but many of them do it in a disrespectful, inappropriate way that says they don’t believe the Church has the authority to teach at all. Do you see the distinction I am trying to make?

I totally accept your apology. If I came across harshly in my posts, unfortunately that is my way when I am writing about a confusion or question…I am trying to tone things down.

I also see the distinction that your making.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list.

**What is a mortal sin and what is a venial sin is NOT an executive decision. **

 

[onetimeposter]

Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list.

**What is a mortal sin and what is a venial sin is NOT an executive decision. **

Well, someone wrote and came up with these lists after interpreting scripture…the Church. This consensus was probably done by executive decision or committee? No?

saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html

 

[tessi]

I think the Church can change it from a mortal sin to a venial sin, afterall, the Church made the decision that it is to be a mortal sin, so if they made the rule, the can change the rule.

Without the Mass, there’s no meaning for the existance of the Catholic Church. If you do not recognize what God did, then what good can you do?
Declaring missing Mass venial sin is not a decision of the Church, it’s the decision of God who asks us to recognize that from Him we receive all the good.
Most people don’t go to Mass because they think men are more important than God, maybe it’s not their fault, they were taught like that.

 

[kage_ar]

Perhaps some study on sin would help?

There is NO LIST of what is and what is not a mortal sin. Does not exist, anywhere.

What we do know is what is and what is not GRAVE MATTER.

In order to sin to be a mortal sin, it has to meet three conditions - all three of them, not two or one, but all three conditions.

It must be grave matter.

The person must know it is grave matter.

The person must do it with intent.

No one committs a mortal sin “by accident”. No one commits a mortal sin out of true ignorance.

You know it is serious and you do it on purpose.

God does not send any person to hell. People choose to go to hell by choosing to reject God, mortal sin is rejecting God - saying “God, I know that this is a serious thing and that you said I am not to do it. I am gonna do it anyway.”

THAT is what mortal sin is.

Back to your original point, the Priest has no idea who has or has not been to confession. A penitant does not swipe the card so the big Church database shows that they have been to confession. The person could be a visitor, the person could have gone to confession with another priest - it would be a miracle if the Priest could stand there and read the hearts of every person who approaches for Communion.

The Church expects parents to teach their children the faith. These children as they grow are expected to continue to learn as adults, and as people who know the faith, they are expected to be honest when presenting themselves for communion.

 

[jmcrae]

I have trouble believing this following:

A Roman Catholic man attends Mass weekly, takes his obligation seriously and he always brings his family to Mass.

One weekend, he takes his family on a vacation and decides that for the first time in 14 years, they can skip Mass because of the vacation, even though their is a Catholic Church in the city where they are vacationing. He decides that missing Mass is Ok this one time.

First, if he understands the teachings of the Church about the Mass, he would not do this, unless he were temporarily under mental stress of some kind, which would reduce his culpability for the sin - thus making it a venial sin; not mortal.

This man is well aware of the teachings of the Church regarding missing Mass being a Mortal sin. He has a very active Church life.

Which is why it would be unlikely for him to want to miss Mass while he is on vacation - in fact, he would probably have already checked out the parish priest of the vacation-area church on-line and has a story all set to tell him at the coffee hour about someone the priest knows, in the man’s own home town. Because he is oriented in his heart toward the things of God, it does not even occur to him not to attend Mass; he is, in fact, looking forward to meeting the people at the church there. His wife is probably looking forward to trading recipes with the CWL ladies at that parish, and the children packed their Sunday clothes without being told, because they already knew they were going to Mass on Sunday.

The Man gets hit by a car the following Monday and dies instantly. He didn’t go to Mass that weekend for the reason listed above and because he died while in a state of Mortal Sin ( according the rules of the Church) God doesn’t accept him in heaven and he is condemned to Hell for all of eternity.

If the man was oriented to place God and His Church first in his life at all times, then it is extremely unlikely that he would have missed Mass other than for reasons of either temporary insanity or lack of access to the Mass - thus, he would most likely spend some time in Purgatory and then he would go to Heaven.

Where as:

A Catholic man raises a family and never ever ever brings them to Mass and he is very ignorant about the rules of the Church. He doesn’t know many of the teachings of the Church and has no idea that missing Mass is a Mortal sin. He takes his family to Xmas Mass only and he went to confession once when he was a youngster.

This man dies suddenly and because of his ignorance…he gets to go to heaven?

Only if his heart was honestly oriented toward the things of God, and that his limited understanding of Church teachings was not his own fault (invincible ignorance means that there was absolutely no way for him to find out the teachings of the Church) because it is also a mortal sin to neglect to educate ourselves about the teachings of the Church - so, if he didn’t go to Hell for missing Mass, then he most likely would go to Hell for neglecting to educate himself about the faith.

So the learned man is condemned to Hell and the ignorant man gets paradise?

It is extremely unlikely.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Well, someone wrote and came up with these lists after interpreting scripture…the Church. This consensus was probably done by executive decision or committee? No?

No.

 

[Princess18]

There have been many posts about this in the Ask An Apologist forum. This one addresses your question almost identically - the one about missing Mass just once and going to hell.

Does missing Mass send you to hell?

 

[prodigal-sun]

I will speak only of Canada. As you may or may not know, the Catholic population in Canada is around 43%.

It is my understanding that only 25% of Catholics attend Mass regularly. The other 75% attend at varying frequencies and obviously there are some that don’t attend at all.

The Church has declared that missing Mass on Sunday ( Saturday) is a mortal sin.

I feel that this decision only affects the 25% who attend weekly Mass and take these types of things very seriously.

The other 75%, obviously aren’t that worried about it, as there are not lineups outside the Church’s with people waiting for confession.

At Christmas, the other 75% show up for Christmas Mass and again, there aren’t thousands of people lined up at the confessional for their yearly confession.

So, again, these 75% ( or so, this isn’t really about the numbers) aren’t concerned about the 51 weeks of missing Mass and 51 weeks of mortal sin in that regard.

So, if the 25% who attend Mass, miss Mass, they commit mortal sin and then likely go to confession. The other 75% could care less and the Church, doesn’t seem to be doing anything about it, as everyone gets communion at Christmas time and the 15,000 people who show up, certainly were not all at confession…**so how concerned is the Church really about people missing Mass?**How concerned… Very! as they are with all sin that seperates them from God. It is a concern for the Church because it is a concern for God.
The regular Mass goers are going regardless if it is a Mortal sin or not a Mortal sin.

The other 75% seemingly, don’t care either way. Correct, seemingly they do not care either way. But I certaintly pray that their eyes & heart open to their mistake.

Is the Church really concerned about this? As I mentioned above, Yes she is very concerned. **If so, why does everyone get communion at Christmas…it is obvious that the majority of Christmas worshipers do not attend weekly Mass.**because we are responsible for our own action for one thing. We do not cause the preist to commit sacriledge when we recieve the host unworthily it is on our shoulders this sin rests. The church nor any of its congregants can pass judgement on the state of a persons soul. Can you?

**Why doesn’t the Church get rid of this rule and throw it into the venial sin list. **

Because it would still be a mortal sin, and the church would be in error for teaching a sin to be venial when in actuality it is Mortal.

 

[onetimeposter]

First, if he understands the teachings of the Church about the Mass, he would not do this, unless he were temporarily under mental stress of some kind, which would reduce his culpability for the sin - thus making it a venial sin; not mortal.

Which is why it would be unlikely for him to want to miss Mass while he is on vacation - in fact, he would probably have already checked out the parish priest of the vacation-area church on-line and has a story all set to tell him at the coffee hour about someone the priest knows, in the man’s own home town. Because he is oriented in his heart toward the things of God, it does not even occur to him not to attend Mass; he is, in fact, looking forward to meeting the people at the church there. His wife is probably looking forward to trading recipes with the CWL ladies at that parish, and the children packed their Sunday clothes without being told, because they already knew they were going to Mass on Sunday.

If the man was oriented to place God and His Church first in his life at all times, then it is extremely unlikely that he would have missed Mass other than for reasons of either temporary insanity or lack of access to the Mass - thus, he would most likely spend some time in Purgatory and then he would go to Heaven.

Only if his heart was honestly oriented toward the things of God, and that his limited understanding of Church teachings was not his own fault (invincible ignorance means that there was absolutely no way for him to find out the teachings of the Church) because it is also a mortal sin to neglect to educate ourselves about the teachings of the Church - so, if he didn’t go to Hell for missing Mass, then he most likely would go to Hell for neglecting to educate himself about the faith.

It is extremely unlikely.

Your the first person I’ve ever seen pick apart a fictitious story to illustrate a point.

 

[onetimeposter]

There have been many posts about this in the Ask An Apologist forum. This one addresses your question almost identically - the one about missing Mass just once and going to hell.

Does missing Mass send you to hell?

Thank you…it answers the question. I wonder who made all of those decisions about missing mass in the first place?

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you…it answers the question. I wonder who made all of those decisions about missing mass in the first place?

God did.

 

[jmcrae]

Your the first person I’ve ever seen pick apart a fictitious story to illustrate a point.

Fictitious people go neither to Heaven, nor to Hell. I was trying to make it a bit more realistic.

 

[onetimeposter]

God did.

Where is it written that God proclaimed that missing mass condemns a man to hell or at the very least is a grave sin?

A cynical person may wonder if that is a means to get someone to Church every week…no?

 

[onetimeposter]

Fictitious people go neither to Heaven, nor to Hell. I was trying to make it a bit more realistic.

Yeah, I suppose there hasn’t been one devout Catholic in the history of the world that uncharacteristically chose to miss mass and then died the next day.

 

[jmcrae]

Where is it written that God proclaimed that missing mass condemns a man to hell or at the very least is a grave sin?

Exodus 20, compare with Hebrews 10:19-39.

A cynical person may wonder if that is a means to get someone to Church every week…no?

God likes us to go to Church every week - and yes, this would be His way of making sure we do so.

Do you have some kind of problem with that?

 

[jmcrae]

Yeah, I suppose there hasn’t been one devout Catholic in the history of the world that uncharacteristically chose to miss mass and then died the next day.

Well, I doubt it. Do you actually know of anyone to whom this happened?