Missing Mass Q

[Lapey]

I am on vacation this week, and feel no guilt about it. And interestingly enough, I was on a long bike ride yesterday and I stopped at a local spring to fill my water bottles, when a small car with 4 nuns pulled up. I said hi and asked what community they were from as I didn’t recognize their habits (yes they were in proper habits). They were from the Marcelline order in Montreal and were filling a big jug of water. We chatted for a bit and learned that they run a private school in Westmount. The sister chatting to me mentioned that they were on vacation.

So if even nuns, traditional enough to still wear the habit, can take a vacation, so can I.

Moreover it’s the law in this country that employers grant vacation time.

I just went on vacation too, we just planned and attended a mass at a Church near where we stayed. No one said you couldn’t take vacation. Did you ask the nuns if they skipped mass while on vacation?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Well, I guess I deserved that. No matter how arogant my responce eappeared, it was stated from my experiences and training in canon law for three semesters of formation. I am wrong and you Father have put me in my place with such charity.

Good day.

Ah, so you feel its ok to place the spiritual burden of objective mortal sin upon another without just cause?
The OP was obviously worried enough about the state of their soul to ask the question. To black-and-white declare that there can be no dispensation from Sunday obligation could perhaps cause undue burden and stress upon someone worried about mortal sin.

The real answer is: talk to your pastor and see if your situation qualifies for a dispensation or commuting of the obligation.

Anything other than that is not one’s call to make…

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Correctly so…ask your priest. My husband had to get one when he was doing a Seattle to Portland bike ride. Riding Saturday day 100 miles and Sunday 100 miles. The start and end times did not give him time to get to Mass. I however did attend in one of the towns as I was driving.

I don’t believe he was under Mortal sin as he discussed it with our priest.

 

[Lapey]

Ah, so you feel its ok to place the spiritual burden of objective mortal sin upon another without just cause?
The OP was obviously worried enough about the state of their soul to ask the question. To black-and-white declare that there can be no dispensation from Sunday obligation could perhaps cause undue burden and stress upon someone worried about mortal sin.

The real answer is: talk to your pastor and see if your situation qualifies for a dispensation or commuting of the obligation.

Anything other than that is not one’s call to make…

I guess you could read that into what the OP orriginally asked, but it appears to most who responded that the OP was simply looking for an easier answer to swallow, in fact he stated that fact. Here is the quote;

"Is it morally permissible to miss Mass in order to go camping for 3 days, a week, whatever?

My gut answer is no. I cannot see any reason to miss Mass on purpose, no matter how nice camping would be. But, hoping I might get an answer that I like more, I am posting here."

I personally think his gut is correct. As far as me trying to apply guilt of mortal sin, sin is what it is. I cannot make anyone guilty of what they are not guilty.

I think you applied too much meaning to the orriginal post. By the way, we should be worried about mortal sin, shouldn’t we? Shouldn’t we look for the “black & white” answer? Gray is not good, but thats just my opinion.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I personally think his gut is correct. As far as me trying to apply guilt of mortal sin, sin is what it is. I cannot make anyone guilty of what they are not guilty.

Exactly, it is what it is. The individual can request a dispensation or to have the obligation commuted. Making up answers based on what you would like to happen are not helpful.

By the way, we should be worried about mortal sin, shouldn’t we?

Yes, we should be concerned about it. But unreasonably spreading fear of mortal sin is not helpful and can be outright dangerous, especially if the individual suffers from scrupulosity.
As previously noted, the only correct answer is: “Talk to your pastor and see if this situation qualifies as a just reason to be dispensed.” Anything else is merely forcing your own ideas upon another.

Shouldn’t we look for the “black & white” answer? Gray is not good, but thats just my opinion.

Its nice and all to look for black and white answers, but when your black and white answer is blantently incorrect, that’s where there’s a huge problem. You’re better off admiting you don’t know the answer than slamming down the wrong one.
In ministry plenty falls into the gray. And this is indeed one such case. The Bishop and/or priest could consider the fact that the camp site is too far away from a parish for it to be reasonable to expect the individual to meet their obligation and thus either commutes the obligation to another day or simply dispenses with it.

 

[choy]

but my pastor had this to say about missing mass (and i am paraphrasing)…

if you miss a meal, you feel your tummy rumble and you feal weak and sick and all you can think about is having to satisfy that hunger

what i don’t understand is that when you miss Mass, you think its okay. you should be getting a spiritual heart attack.

 

[Lapey]

Father,
“Exactly, it is what it is. The individual can request a dispensation or to have the obligation commuted. Making up answers based on what you would like to happen are not helpful.”

Gary,
I am not making up answers based on what I would like to happen, simply adding my opinion which is what the OP asked for. Your answer is opposite my answer.

Father,
“Yes, we should be concerned about it. But unreasonably spreading fear of mortal sin is not helpful and can be outright dangerous, especially if the individual suffers from scrupulosity.”

Gary,
No fear, just my opinion. It is much more dangerous to not be told the truth in matters of grave sin, whether this falls into that or not is what we are debating.

Father,
“As previously noted, the only correct answer is: “Talk to your pastor and see if this situation qualifies as a just reason to be dispensed.” Anything else is merely forcing your own ideas upon another.”

Gary,
Don’t think anyone disagreed with this. Same could be said of all who added their opinion, merely forcing your own opinion, including you because you are not his pastor.

Father,
“Its nice and all to look for black and white answers, but when your black and white answer is blatantly incorrect, that’s where there’s a huge problem.”

Gary,
No it is not blatantly incorrect, even the concordance you sited could be interpreted differently than the strict meaning you see. The authority resides with the bishop, he must grant the privilege to dispense or commute to the priest or the deacon. It is not automatic or without guideline the way you seem to see it.

Father,
"You’re better off admitting you don’t know the answer than slamming down the wrong one.

Gary,
Many think your answer is the wrong one. There is a difference between slamming something down and answering a question which the OP asked. Is it the fact that I stated my answer so confidently and it contradicted yours, or that it contradicted yours?

Father,
“In ministry plenty falls into the gray. And this is indeed one such case. The Bishop and/or priest could consider the fact that the camp site is too far away from a parish for it to be reasonable to expect the individual to meet their obligation and thus either commutes the obligation to another day or simply dispenses with it.”

Gary,
Again, no one disagrees here, except for the shade of gray. The person can most definitely petition his pastor and the bishop. But I think the OP knows the answer he will get, again his words not mine.

Gray is necessary sometimes you are correct, but not in matters of sin. Abortion is always wrong, that is it. Do you agree? Euthanasia is always wrong, isn’t it? Same sex marriage is always wrong, don’t you think?

If I were going on a trip as a part of a group event such as a mission or the like and there was no mass available that is one thing. But if I am planning the camping trip as entertainment and put myself in a position to not be able to attend mass that is totally different. I would plan the trip to allow time to meet my obligation, and most importantly, the obligation of my family; as I am responsible for their spiritual health.

Good night Father and God bless!

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Gray is necessary sometimes you are correct, but not in matters of sin. Abortion is always wrong, that is it. Do you agree? Euthanasia is always wrong, isn’t it? Same sex marriage is always wrong, don’t you think?

Do you really think that most of ministry time is spent on issues like abortion, euthanasia, and same sex marriage? Sorry, but that’s not the reality.

But if I am planning the camping trip as entertainment and put myself in a position to not be able to attend mass that is totally different. I would plan the trip to allow time to meet my obligation, and most importantly, the obligation of my family; as I am responsible for their spiritual health.

Good for you. Now try not to impose your personal habits upon others and simply allow for what the Church allows for and you’ll be fine.

Let’s look at the Catechism now:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

And what oh what is the source that the Catechism uses for its reference of the bolded part? Oh my goodness, its canon 1245.

 

[Aramis]

Where is it written that a Priest can dispense someone from their Sunday Obligation in the first place? Or even a Bishop fro that matter? But especially a Priest. Can anyone cite the source of this for me?

And I do not think the OP has reason to miss their Sunday Obligation?

Dispensations: vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_PA.HTM#7
Diocesean Bishops: vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1E.HTM

Whole section on dispensations. Juridical and Legislative power resides with diocesan bishops by virtue of their office. Most diocesan bishops allow limited dispensation of the Sunday obligation to be done by Pastors; In the Eastern Catholic Churches, this tends to, in fact, be the standard.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I have a question…it seems like there are a lot of judgments with people saying…I don’t think it’s right…taking a vacation from God…I’m not sure that’s correct. Even when a priest says that your parish priest is allowed to grant a dispensation. Are we not putting more requirements on someone then is necessarily? Didn’t Paul address this with the Jews and Gentiles? Are we not trying to judge someone’s soul?

Who are we to say that going out in the middle of nowhere and retreating away is a vacation from God? Do we know that? This situation is ENTIRELY different then just sleeping in and not wanting to go to Mass.

Geez…in May I did a 1/2 marathon in a strange city…that Saturday we had to drive down and packet pickup made it impossible to go to a Saturday night service…then the 1/2 marathon was Sunday morning. I talked with my priest and worked it out with him. I sure hope no one here is judging the state of my soul because I did that.

 

[choy]

or dispensed by their own pastor

i have a question Father
what if i travel back home to the Philippines. then say my flight would mean i would not be able to attend Mass. can i receive a dispensation from a priest there? even though right now my pastor would be the one here in Canada where i now reside?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

i have a question Father
what if i travel back home to the Philippines. then say my flight would mean i would not be able to attend Mass. can i receive a dispensation from a priest there? even though right now my pastor would be the one here in Canada where i now reside?

You could simply ask your home pastor in Canada before you leave…

 

[choy]

You could simply ask your home pastor in Canada before you leave…

but what if the flight was moved when i was already in the Philippines?

can there be a dispensation after the fact? for example the flight got grounded because of a typhoon. i got stuck in the airport. i was supposed to arrive Sunday morning with enough time to go to Mass. instead i arrived late Sunday evening missing any Mass. or does it that already fall into serious reason?

 

[Aramis]

but what if the flight was moved when i was already in the Philippines?

can there be a dispensation after the fact? for example the flight got grounded because of a typhoon. i got stuck in the airport. i was supposed to arrive Sunday morning with enough time to go to Mass. instead i arrived late Sunday evening missing any Mass. or does it that already fall into serious reason?

The obligation is automatically dispensed when circumstances beyond your control prevent your attendance.

For example, you get on a plane knowing that, if on schedule, you’ll make the noon mass. You get on, and it’s delayed 8 hours. You missed mass while stranded in timbuktu… no problem. You intended to make it, and it’s not your fault.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

but what if the flight was moved when i was already in the Philippines?

can there be a dispensation after the fact? for example the flight got grounded because of a typhoon. i got stuck in the airport. i was supposed to arrive Sunday morning with enough time to go to Mass. instead i arrived late Sunday evening missing any Mass. or does it that already fall into serious reason?

The obligation can only exist if we can actually do the task. In this case its impossible for your to get to Mass due to circumstances beyond your control. Your obligation ceases to exist since its impossible to fulfill…

 

[ProVobis]

I recall when I was younger during one of the homilies the priest mentioned that sometimes it’s okay to miss mass once in awhile to spend time with your family out at the lake and people shouldn’t be so quick to judge.

If you’re underage and your parents take you, you have no choice then.

But the argument I have is that suppose you choose to “vacation” at home? Is there justification there to miss Mass? A vacation is still a vacation, regardless of where you are. I know when I plan to go out of town, I always look for the closest EF Mass to attend. Sometimes I restrict my vacation to only those places. But then I can’t tell another person what his/her priorities should be. However, as Catholics, I would hope Mass is the first and foremost thing on everyone’s mind.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

If you’re underage and your parents take you, you have no choice then.

But the argument I have is that suppose you choose to “vacation” at home? Is there justification there to miss Mass? A vacation is still a vacation, regardless of where you are. I know when I plan to go out of town, I always look for the closest EF Mass to attend. Sometimes I restrict my vacation to only those places. But then I can’t tell another person what his/her priorities should be. However, as Catholics, I would hope Mass is the first and foremost thing on everyone’s mind.

Obviously if someone is reasonably able to attend Mass then they have the obligation. If one takes a vacation in NYC, there’s a Catholic church on every corner, the obligation still exists and its not reasonable to ask for a dispensation.
However, if an opportunity arises to get away for a weekend and there’s no Mass within a reasonable distance, a dispensing or commuting of the obligation makes perfect sense. The individual can still “keep holy” the day through other means.

I don’t think we need to nit-pick this to death. There’s obviously some subjectivity here which is why the canons don’t allow just old anyone to make the decision of whether a dispensation or commutation is just…

 

[Aramis]

To give a real world example or three:
my wife, kids, and I went camping with a group, some 50 miles from the nearest church. Of any kind. The pastor handed me a missalette, told me to do a liturgy of the word for my family (and any other Catholics going who cared to join in) and emailed me a reflection to read in lieu of a homily.

Another pastor, knowing I had the hours book, told me to simply do matins (morning prayer) in lieu of liturgy when the whole family had the flu.

One weekend, I was traveling Saturday evening and Sunday all day; the pastor transferred my obligation to Monday for that week.

There are reasons to miss mass; one’s pastor can substitute some other action.

And in some cases, like another trip, I made it to church for mass… but the parish didn’t! The sacristan posted a note: “Father is trapped by weather. He says to say an Our Father, Hail Holy Queen, and Glory Be, and enjoy the rest of the day.” The majority of the parish was called by the sacristan, but us visitors got “dispensation by remote”…

 

[ProVobis]

However, if an opportunity arises to get away for a weekend and there’s no Mass within a reasonable distance, a dispensing or commuting of the obligation makes perfect sense. The individual can still “keep holy” the day through other means.

Perhaps but even if I used sickness as a reason, I won’t go to communion until I’ve confessed that I missed Mass. I don’t know if I’m the best judge of reasonable.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Perhaps but even if I used sickness as a reason, I won’t go to communion until I’ve confessed that I missed Mass. I don’t know if I’m the best judge of reasonable.

If you’re sick then the obligation does not exist since illness is a valid “automatic dispensation” from Mass.