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MikeWM
Guest
Almost certainly not. Dirty bombs would have a large economic impact, but the damage to life and limb would be very little different from a normal bomb. They are over-hyped.
Mike
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Mike
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
The violence that followed the fall of the Roman Empire set civilization back immensely. The later Viking incursions destroyed seats of learning all along the Atlantic and Medeterranian coasts.
Barbarism is where the strong are able to prey on the weaker without hinderance – and that’s what happened in New Orleans.
Unfortunately the mayor and governor failed to do that.
Arba Sicula:
Does the phrase “Dark Ages” mean anything to you?
The violence that followed the fall of the Roman Empire set civilization back immensely. The later Viking incursions destroyed seats of learning all along the Atlantic and Medeterranian coasts.
Barbarism is where the strong are able to prey on the weaker without hinderance – and that’s what happened in New Orleans.
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cainem
Guest
perhaps barbaric was to strong a word, but the thing is it was an extremely dangerous place by the reports we were seeing/getting, crates of beer dvd players getting taking, pot shots at helicopters, cops turning in their badges also the remaining cops being outgunned, also reports of rape gangs and those who made provision for the hurricane being robbed, does any one know if the decent majority ever set up an ad hoc security group at the centre to fend off the criminal element? after all surely the gangs could not be that well organised against several hundred determined people at the centre?
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
vern humphrey:
Your definition of barbarism seems to be uniquely your own. My definition calls barbarism the lack of the rule of law and culture and the complete dominance of brutality.
Sorry, but the violence in New Orleans did not set civilization in the South back the way the violence following Rome’s fall set civilization back. The incursions of the gangs did not destroy the seats of learning all along the Gulf Coast the way the Viking raids did.
Your definition of barbarism seems to be uniquely your own. My definition calls barbarism the lack of the rule of law and culture and the complete dominance of brutality.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
I’m sure there was no such group, but I saw some photos of store and restaurant owners guarding their property with shotguns.
Given that water was rising and that different sections of the city suffered differing damage, I don’t think that there were ever more than a few people who stood together at any one place for that purpose. Better to save your life than your property seemed to predominate as a state of mind.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
Because it occurred only in New Orleans, and because law and order was restored.
Arba Sicula:
And for a while there, that would describe large sections of New Orleans.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
vern humphrey:
Which proves my point that there was no areawide breakdown in the rule of law and culture and the complete dominance of brutality. There was and is no reason to call on Chicken Little.
You may think so.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
By “Chicken Little” do you mean the National Guard?
Arba Sicula:
So do my family members in Baton Rouge, Morgan City and Lafayette.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
vern humphrey:
I’m very sorry to hear that they experienced looting, etc. in those towns as well. I was under the impression that the disorder was restricted to NO. So, it was more widespread than I thought.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
They have some hair-raising stories to tell.
They are working as volunteers either in New Orleans, or with evacuees in their home towns. We currently have about 360 evacuees here in Mountain View, Arkansas (population 2,800.)
They have some hair-raising stories to tell.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
vern humphrey:
I don’t know how many Mayor Bloomberg invited to come here. I understand that the refugees are being dispersed primarily in their own states, Texas, and your state. I do remember that Fort Chapee (sp?) in Arkansas was used to house Vietnamese refugees a few decades ago.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
It has been used for refugees many times – including Viet Namese after the fall of Saigon, and Mariel Boat Lift people. But the government apparently likes to let those who can travel on their own seek their own towns, and is willing to pick up the tab for lodging and food.
Fort Chaffee, named for Major General Adna R. Chaffee.
It has been used for refugees many times – including Viet Namese after the fall of Saigon, and Mariel Boat Lift people. But the government apparently likes to let those who can travel on their own seek their own towns, and is willing to pick up the tab for lodging and food.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
vern humphrey:
Freedom of choice - good!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Arba Sicula:
On the other hand, if that happens, it will reduce the cost of rebuilding New Orleans and result in fewer people living below sea level.
Very good, indeed – depending on how you look at it. The government of Louisiana is afraid those people will find jobs and never come home.
On the other hand, if that happens, it will reduce the cost of rebuilding New Orleans and result in fewer people living below sea level.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
vern humphrey:
Most of the locals or their families moved into that area some time between 1880 and 1920. (We joke that the kids have to go off to college to find a spouse that’s not a relative!
) That isn’t the case for most people. The average American moves every 7 years. This is more like the area I live in now. But we know our closest neighbors well enough to be willing to give at least 2-3 of them keys to our house and codes to our alarm, should disaster strike while we’re away from home. We also borrow back and forth, whether for dinner party or ice storm emergencies. Based on the last few ice storms (we usually have at least one power outage every winter), the neighbors are pretty well set, although it would be tighter if an earthquake hit during the winter and wiped out our natural gas.
Although wood stoves and fireplaces are popular, the local population density is such that they aren’t encouraged as a primary heat source, for the sake of air quality. This makes your basement with optional wood heat a great idea. Someone in our area could use that idea to have a wood-fired heat source that carries a lot of wallop and combine it with a cleaner alternative like gas that they could use most of the time.
This sounds very much like my parents’ house, with the exception of the basement, which the height of the water table in winter prohibits. They have their house on a high spot and on a high foundation, but they’ve had water two stairsteps below their ground floor at least three times in the last 50 years. (The spread of the local land would require a LOT of water to get higher than that.) They have only relatives for close neighbors, but I think they know a hundred or so fellow parishioners within a five-mile radius well enough to ask for meaningful emergency help, and as most of them are other logging and farm families with a smattering of nurses, they are a useful group to be on good-neighbor terms with.
Most of the locals or their families moved into that area some time between 1880 and 1920. (We joke that the kids have to go off to college to find a spouse that’s not a relative!
) That isn’t the case for most people. The average American moves every 7 years. This is more like the area I live in now. But we know our closest neighbors well enough to be willing to give at least 2-3 of them keys to our house and codes to our alarm, should disaster strike while we’re away from home. We also borrow back and forth, whether for dinner party or ice storm emergencies. Based on the last few ice storms (we usually have at least one power outage every winter), the neighbors are pretty well set, although it would be tighter if an earthquake hit during the winter and wiped out our natural gas.Although wood stoves and fireplaces are popular, the local population density is such that they aren’t encouraged as a primary heat source, for the sake of air quality. This makes your basement with optional wood heat a great idea. Someone in our area could use that idea to have a wood-fired heat source that carries a lot of wallop and combine it with a cleaner alternative like gas that they could use most of the time.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I used to live in Virginia, right on Chesapeake Bay (or rather on a tidal stream attached to the Bay.) This was a low, swampy area, and I would buy a pickup full of cat litter each summer and store it on a “loft” in my garage.This sounds very much like my parents’ house, with the exception of the basement, which the height of the water table in winter prohibits. They have their house on a high spot and on a high foundation, but they’ve had water two stairsteps below their ground floor at least three times in the last 50 years. (The spread of the local land would require a LOT of water to get higher than that.) They have only relatives for close neighbors, but I think they know a hundred or so fellow parishioners within a five-mile radius well enough to ask for meaningful emergency help, and as most of them are other logging and farm families with a smattering of nurses, they are a useful group to be on good-neighbor terms with.
Most of the locals or their families moved into that area some time between 1880 and 1920. (We joke that the kids have to go off to college to find a spouse that’s not a relative!
Although wood stoves and fireplaces are popular, the local population density is such that they aren’t encouraged as a primary heat source, for the sake of air quality. This makes your basement with optional wood heat a great idea. Someone in our area could use that idea to have a wood-fired heat source that carries a lot of wallop and combine it with a cleaner alternative like gas that they could use most of the time.
When storms came, I would put the cat litter bags into plastic trash bags (to make them doubly water-proof) and sandbag those areas where the water usually came up.
After hurricane season, the cats had a field day.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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KathleenElsie
Guest
We are each required to do what we can to provide for ourselves. Our home is also off the road and we have been without power in the winter for two or more weeks at a time. So we make sure we have the ability to heat, cook and feed ourselves for 30 days without asking for others to help. There are more populated areas near us that need to go on line first. The more populated areas need to be provided for first for everyone’s safety.
We keep food for the people and animals. Six months at the least. Water is stored and most of the emergency supplies are canned or dried. A generator (we just got it this month) is now available and if necessary we can hand pump our water.
We are not survivalists just realists. We are a large Catholic family that lives in the country and works in town. But, like many other people that have seen what others are willing to take from those that have provided for themselves, we are able to protect ourselves and the supplies that we have. To do otherwise would be foolish.
We have also helped others to find the resources to do the same. Just as a good friend showed us how to care for ourselves. Teaching someone to take care of their own family needs is better then supplying them with just enough to get along with. We have helped people learn to garden, can food, dehydrate food and make their homes more secure for the winter or hard times.
If we all did what we could there would be no need to “loot” for needs. The need for welfare would diminish and everyone would be better off.
There is a second harvest here that our church and others donate time and goods for others. Charity for those that cannot care for themselves is a good thing.
Charity for the sake of charity is not a good thing IMHO. It makes people angry and dependent for no reason except to make others feel good about themselves.
We keep food for the people and animals. Six months at the least. Water is stored and most of the emergency supplies are canned or dried. A generator (we just got it this month) is now available and if necessary we can hand pump our water.
We are not survivalists just realists. We are a large Catholic family that lives in the country and works in town. But, like many other people that have seen what others are willing to take from those that have provided for themselves, we are able to protect ourselves and the supplies that we have. To do otherwise would be foolish.
We have also helped others to find the resources to do the same. Just as a good friend showed us how to care for ourselves. Teaching someone to take care of their own family needs is better then supplying them with just enough to get along with. We have helped people learn to garden, can food, dehydrate food and make their homes more secure for the winter or hard times.
If we all did what we could there would be no need to “loot” for needs. The need for welfare would diminish and everyone would be better off.
There is a second harvest here that our church and others donate time and goods for others. Charity for those that cannot care for themselves is a good thing.
Charity for the sake of charity is not a good thing IMHO. It makes people angry and dependent for no reason except to make others feel good about themselves.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Same here. There are two lines, however, and one of them serves more people and has priority. We happen to be on the other line, and we can look across the valley and see lights on in a neighbor’s house for days before our power comes back on.
One of my neighbors on the same side we’re on has a doll he sticks pins in when that happens.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
We’re lucky – we have Rural Water, so ours flows from a tank on top of the mountain. It would be weeks before we had to worry about water. Now, hot water is something else.
Other that our kids are all grown, it’s the same here. City people just don’t understand what it means to live in the country – you have to be self-reliant, and at the same time form tight-knit communities that help each other.
Amen – we swap garden produce, partner on a beeve, and so on.
The problem in New Orleans was there was no tight-knit community looking out for each other. And no one in authority thought to secure the necessities of life and issue them out based on need, not on strength.
My wife is my hero – she says, "You’ll be mad at me but – " and there follows some little act of hers. Recently she admitted she had been giving gas money to a practical nurse she works with, so she can drive to another town and work on her RN degree.
Why she thinks I would be “mad” at her, I don’t know.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
Arba Sicula:
Wow, it sure sounded like one to me.
Arba Sicula:
Posting a smiley after an insult doesn’t remove the sting from the insult.
Arba Sicula:
Vern’s not touchy. He’s pretty easy going actually. And in case, even if Vern were touchy, does not detract from the insulting nature of what you said.
Arba Sicula:
Apologizing and then continuing to justify your bad behaviour and project ‘touchiness’ is unseemly to say the least and more likely not an apology at all. Please allow me to suggest a more effective way of apologizing: merely say, “Fair enough, point taken. Please accept my apology.” And then withdraw from the interchange.
Arba Sicula:
Again attributing your specific behaviour to the general customs of New Yorkers is not really an apology and in fact makes matters worse by dragging unwitting New Yorkers into the fray. New Yorkers tend to make a big thing about being tough and pushy, but I have found them generous and hospitable.
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tcay584
Guest
We can’t, plain and simple. No country can prepare for every possibility. We can’t prepare for a nuclear attack anywhere…the global consequences would be far beyond our control…or anyone else’s for that matter.
That to me is why we have to be as vigilant as possible, but at some point and time we have to trust God. He’s omniscient and omnipotent…we aren’t and never will be.
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