Missing the Nuns

[JReducation]

Thank you very much, Brother JR, for this open and honest glimpse into your religious order pre V2 and how things had drifted from the mind of the founders with the passage of many centuries and the efforts being made to return to the original vision and mission back those many centuries ago - and the priorities set nowadays in who does what and why. It does give an insight into the fact that while we as lay people pre V2 had religious and clergy on a pedestal and many indeed deserved it and still do, that things may not have been quite what they seemed to us as outsiders trying to look in. Things are not always as they may appear to us.

In many communities of men there were many injustices and the laity was non-the-wiser. It must also be said that by the time that the 20the century rolled around religious entering the orders thought this was the status quo. They never gave it a second thought. There was no malice intended. These men did not craft this model of religious life. They inherited it.

I think one must certainly have a vocation and certainly God’s Grace to live it to wear a tunic 24/7, washed each Wednesday. Such dedication truly astounds and moves to praise and thank God for His Graces made evident.
Next time I come across a Franciscan that happens to smell, I shall smile and praise and thank God rather than worrying about the odor which just may be the odor of holiness.
I am curious though. At what times are the tunic that is worn four times yearly worn?

TS

“The order of holiness.” LOL I love that.

We wear our good tunic on the four major holy days of our liturgical year:

Christmas
Easter
Stigmata of St. Francis (Sept 16)
Passing of our Holy Father Francis (Oct 3 and 4)

Remember, we do not follow the liturgical calendar of the Church. We have always had out own, with its own readings, prayers, missal, and customs. For example, we have three Lents, the Eastern Churches have two and the Roman Church has one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

In many communities of men there were many injustices and the laity was non-the-wiser. It must also be said that by the time that the 20the century rolled around religious entering the orders thought this was the status quo. They never gave it a second thought. There was no malice intended. These men did not craft this model of religious life. They inherited it.

“The order of holiness.” LOL I love that.

We wear our good tunic on the four major holy days of our liturgical year:

Christmas
Easter
Stigmata of St. Francis (Sept 16)
Passing of our Holy Father Francis (Oct 3 and 4)

Remember, we do not follow the liturgical calendar of the Church. We have always had out own, with its own readings, prayers, missal, and customs. For example, we have three Lents, the Eastern Churches have two and the Roman Church has one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you, Brother, on all scores. I thought that probably the Franciscans did have four major feasts when the other tunic is worn. Now I know what they are.

Three Lents! - Goodness! … indeed!

I also am aware that drifting from the vision and mission of founders had taken place slowly over many years and prior to V2 had been inherited more than effected and not only in the Franciscan Order either which is probably why Vatican2 stated what it did re religious life. But important to state these things for the benefit of all readers. Most of us are lay people probably having our information updated and possibly very needily if we are prepared to listen and put our concepts on the line in the interests of truth and to hear what is shared.

What has been highlighted, I thought, was that lay people were only aware of appearances or the religious habit etc. and what it stood for for them, not what was actually happening within the actual religious order. We saw the habit and the ideal only. Hence it is important today with all the changes in religious life that we are prepared to listen to what religious have to say - really hear, I mean. Lamenting the loss in the main (although signs things are now changing again, the pendulum swings) of religious habit and priestly collar etc. is only part of the story and part of the experience of both religious and lay people alike where religious life is concerned. I think we should be rejoicing that religious are so open and transparent about the life nowadays whether in religious habit or not, and we can convey to our children what is needed with confidence, as well as have our own ideas corrected if necessary.

In the main possibly at this point with in many places the loss of the religious habit as a witness to Christ and His Gospel present in our midst and with Rome calling on lay people urgently to evangelize, I think we need to put our energies, as lay people, into asking ourselves how we can proclaim Christ and His Gospel, Catholicism, present in society and to strive to preach the Gospel, with words if necessary. The Church is Christ’s Mystical Body on earth and doubtless He knows what He is about assuring us that “the gates of hell shall not prevail”, so rather than lament over what is lost or seems lost, we need to ask ourselves as lay people, what is our personal vision and mission as a member of the laity by God’s Call? How can I make Christ and His Gospel present? And if I really want to see the religious habit etc. again out and about, to pray ardently for it and for an answer to the latter questions.
I have no way of knowing of course, but perhaps the loss of all we held so dear and relied upon for so much, is The Lord’s way of saying “Wake up, my people, wake up!” My take.

TS

 

[JReducation]

We have touched on some very important points on religious life and there are many more that the average lay person would not dwell on. I always tell people, religious or secular, that it’s important to ask the right question and to listen to answers that you may not have requested.

My first comment speaks for itself. Ask the right question. My second is a little more ambiguous. We must be willing to hear answers that we are not expecting and gentle enough to accept that even when the answers are not to our liking, they explain the other person’s experience. I’m speaking about religious life now.

To the average person in the pews I will say that they will not like everything that they hear about religious life, but everyone must be conscious of the fact that the people who have been called to religious life ultimately have to live with its rules, vision, and mission. It’s not the person in the pew.

In this regard, religious life is radically different from priesthood and marriage. Priesthood and marriage do not have different missions, visions and rules. There is only one priesthood, the priesthood of Jesus Christ. Most priests are not consecrated men. They are secular men. Whatever is said about the consecrated life does not apply to them. Since there is only one priesthood, there is only one vision and mission for the ordained, to celebrate the sacraments.

Marriage is very similar. There are many couples in different cultures around the world. But ultimately, there is only on Sacrament of Marriage with one vision and mission. It is a covenant where the spouses love each other as Christ and the Church love each other. The rest are accidentals that will vary from one household to the next. But the essence of marriage is the same for all Catholics.

Religious life does not have that kind of uniformity. There is not one form of consecrated life. There are many forms of consecrated life: monastic, mendicant, clerk regular, order, congregation, secular order, secular institute, society of apostolic life, hermits and consecrated virgins. Each is very unique. Each has a different mission. Unlike married couples who share in the one mission, to be signs of the love between Christ and the Church. Each form of consecrated life is different from the priesthood, whose mission is to celebrate the sacraments. The Holy Spirit gave to each founder a different vision or path to achieve holiness.

Holiness is important here. All married couples achieve holiness by walking along the same path, the covenant relationship between Christ and his Church. All priests walk along the same path to holiness, the mediation of grace through the sacraments, even if they only celebrate the sacraments once a year. The priest would have been on the path that has been prescribed by Christ for priests who are not called to live the consecrated life, which is most priests. Most priests are not called to live the consecrated life. That is a call reserved especially for religious. A priest does not achieve holiness by living the consecrated life. Christ did not call him to achieve holiness that way. In fact, if he attempts to do so, he may find himself being in serious spiritual trouble. When we step outside of our call, we mess up our lives.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I will confess to watching the Bells of St. Mary’s and thinking how beautifully Sister Benedict and Fr. O’Malley live their vocations. Then I stop to think, “THIS IS HOLLYWOOD.” There are no priests and religious sisters like them. The two characters in this move were carved out of the external appearance that the average lay person had of the secular priest and the teaching sister. The real truth was that the secular priests who were in parishes before Vatican II had nothing to do with the sisters. Communication between them was minimal. They forgot to mention that the majority of priests do not live the consecrated life and thus are not as involved in the apostolic work of religious communities as that movie portrayed. For a priest to attempt the level of involvement proper to a consecrated man would have been inconsistent with the mission of a secular priest. If Father O’Malley has been a consecrated religious and a priest, his involvement with that school would have been dictated by the norms of his founder, not his own criteria.

Sisters ran schools and pastors dared not step over the line. We saw what happened when they did. When pastors began to interfere in the work of the sisters, the sisters packed up their bags and left the schools. Thank you Bring Crosby for putting a not too bright idea into the minds of our newly ordained post Vatican II pastors.

The Bells of St. Mary’s forgot to tell us that Sister Benedict was not only the principal of the school, but she was also the superior of the local religious community and that the pastor had no canonical right to step on her turf. It also forgot to tell us that Sister Benedict belonged to a religious congregation of sisters and owed no obedience to him, but only to her superior. And it forgot to tell us that Sister Benedict and her sisters were assigned to St. Mary’s provided that they could teach and work not according to the pastor’s wishes, but according to the wishes of the founder of her congregation. When the pastor’s wishes conflicted with those of the founder, guess whose authority trumped whom? The founder won. The pastor lost. The sisters left.

The Bells of St. Mary was a beautiful story built upon external appearances. The truth was much more complicated. Those who tried to implement the style of the Bells of St. Mary’s ended up creating untenable situations for schools and parishes. Pastors needed to either run their own schools or stay out of Sister’s way. Sister needed to run her school as prescribed by her founder or leave the school and find another ministry that was in keeping with the mind of the founder. Her commitment was to her congregation, not to the local Catholic school. The school was her responsibility as long as she could run it according to the dictates of her congregation. When the pastor or the parents changed those rules of engagement, the school ceased to be the responsibility of the sisters. That is the untold version of the Bells of St. Mary’s. It was a beautiful fantasy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

Thank you Bring Crosby for putting a not too bright idea into the minds of our newly ordained post Vatican II pastors.

If one reads the life of Blessed Mary Mackillop, soon to be canonized as Australia’s first saint, the bright idea not only occured post V2. marymackillop.org.au/ - read particularly the section on “Challenges”.

When we step outside of our call, we mess up our lives.

I recall when I left religious life my superior telling me “You are abandoning your vocation and burning your bridges”. I cried almost all the way home almost until I suddenly woke up that God would not abandon me and that baptized I was called to holiness and so I reasoned “You will simply given me another call if I have abandoned my vocation”. Truth is I dont think I abandoned my vocation, rather God was calling me elsewhere. Or having abandoned His initial call, did He give me another, and then incidentally another. Anyway I know Peace, Joy and fulfillment. I guess I will get the answer in Heaven. Never give up hope and trust in God and for the Fullness of God and all His Graces for holiness for any reason whatsoever. None.

TS

 

[JReducation]

If one reads the life of Blessed Mary Mackillop, soon to be canonized as Australia’s first saint, the bright idea not only occured post V2. marymackillop.org.au/ - read particularly the section on “Challenges”.

I recall when I left religious life my superior telling me “You are abandoning your vocation and burning your bridges”. I cried almost all the way home almost until I suddenly woke up that God would not abandon me and that baptized I was called to holiness and so I reasoned “You will simply given me another call if I have abandoned my vocation”. Truth is I dont think I abandoned my vocation, rather God was calling me elsewhere. Or having abandoned His initial call, did He give me another, and then incidentally another. Anyway I know Peace, Joy and fulfillment. I guess I will get the answer in Heaven. Never give up hope and trust in God and for the Fullness of God and all His Graces for holiness for any reason whatsoever. None.

TS

The superior spoke the truth. We’re both saying the same thing. If you have found peace, then it may be correct to say that you did not step outside of your calling, but you found your calling outside of the religious life. Not everyone who enters religious life is called to it.

Inner peace and the absence of inner voices is a sign of being where we belong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

When I left religious life, I had no idea where I was being called or what I was going to do. None. All I could see was nothing ahead, nothing to aim for back then except to go on trusting in God day by day and just live on as the days passed and whatever came my way. Mary Mackillop instructed her religious “do what you can and then trust in God for all the rest” and as my Dad used to say “life is long and can be full of pitfalls”. There is beautiful hymn in my book for Night Prayer that runs “Keep Thou my feet. I do not ask to see the distant scene, one step enought for me. I was not ever thus, nor prayed that Thou shouldst lead me on, but now Thou lead me on”.
Did I do right or wrong in leaving religious life? Even if I did wrong, I do not believe that God would allow me to suffer for it for the rest of my life - He would forgive my confusion then and continue to call me to holiness and to happiness in Peace, Joy and fulfillment.
“All things work for the good for those that love God” (St. Paul)

 

[JReducation]

:

If one reads the life of Blessed Mary Mackillop, soon to be canonized as Australia’s first saint, the bright idea not only occured post V2. marymackillop.org.au/ - read particularly the section on “Challenges”.

This is an excellent example of what happens when outsiders interfere in the internal affairs of religious institutes. It creates havoc.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

This is an excellent example of what happens when outsiders interfere in the internal affairs of religious institutes. It creates havoc.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

It sure does and Mary was most courageous and trusted God. In writing to The Holy Father then she wrote “Your Holiness, It is an Australian who speaks…” and then when she visited him in Rome, he called her “the excommunicated one”.

 

[TiggerS]

The superior spoke the truth. We’re both saying the same thing. If you have found peace, then it may be correct to say that you did not step outside of your calling, but you found your calling outside of the religious life. Not everyone who enters religious life is called to it.

Inner peace and the absence of inner voices is a sign of being where we belong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I really don’t know, Brother, I dont give it all much thought at all. I simply don’t know and reflecting on it wont give me answers I dont think. Perhaps one day I will understand. In Heaven I will beyond doubt. I take each day as it comes and try to live it as well as I can and as I am aware I am called and tomorrow is a new day. Certainly I know inner peace and pray it will persist and I will persevere.
Certainly not all who enter religious life are called to it for sure. Should I have persevered in the circumstances at the time? I have no way of knowing.

the absence of inner voices is a sign of being where we belong

I think sufferers of MI who hear voices (if this is what you mean) are also God’s beloved called to holiness. They share in the Sufferings of Christ by God’s Permissive Will which very often to us is complete mystery and mystery is just that - mystery. Jesus on His Cross: “My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?” I think it may have been St. Bernadette (unsure) who when asked what she thought her vocation was, replied “My vocation is to be sick”. It was some saint I know, but cannot recall exactly who. God does not call us to be sick, strictly speaking, but if we are ill and cannot overcome that illness, then our call is to be as good a patient as we are able and to pray for a cure, providing our illness does not so mentally impair that we are unable.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP96N30.htm
Mentally ill always bear God’s image and likeness
Pope John Paul II
*Saturday, 30 November, addressing participants in the international conference sponsored by the Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health-Care Workers, on the theme: “In the Image and Likeness of God: Always? Illness of the Human Mind”. *

1. We Christians especially cannot do so. In this regard the Gospel speaks clearly. Christ not only took pity on the sick and healed many of them, restoring health to both their-bodies and their minds, his compassion also led him to identify with them. He declares: “I was sick and you visited me” (Mt 25:36). The disciples of the Lord, precisely because they were able to see the image of the “suffering” Christ in all people marked by sickness, opened their hearts to them, spending themselves in various forms of assistance.

Well, Christ took all human suffering on himself, even mental illness.

Yes even this affliction, which perhaps seems the most. absurd and incomprehensible, configures the sick person to Christ and gives him a share in his redeeming passion.
8. Thus the response to the theme’s question is clear: whoever suffers from mental illness “always” bears God’s image and likeness in himself, as does every human being. In addition, he “always” has the inalienable right not only to be considered as an image of God and therefore as a person, but also to be treated as such.

It is everyone’s duty to make an active response

: our actions must show that mental illness does not create insurmountable distances, nor prevent relations of true Christian charity with those who are its victims. Indeed, it should inspire a particularly attentive attitude towards these people

who are fully entitled to belong to the category of the poor to whom the kingdom of heaven belongs

(cf. Mt 5:3).

 

[TiggerS]

Re those who suffer with mental illness, also see:

healthpastoral.org/text.php?cid=369&sec=4&docid=109&lang=en
*Javier, Cardinal Lozano Barragán *
*President of the Pontifical Council *
*for Health Pastoral Care, *
Vatican City
Is the Mentally Ill Patient a Deformed Image of God?

Therefore, once the mental illness has caused such a disorder as to take away from the mentally ill patient any responsibility for his actions, qualifying them as separation from the divine will -as a sin- the mental patient cannot separate from God.

In other words, the image of God in him cannot be distorted. In this case his knowledge or his volitive option are no longer sufficient to motivate any human action that separates him from God. His bodily and psychic conditions do not allow him to commit a grave sin, given that in his state of disequilibrium he does not have that full knowledge and ability of assent required to sin.

If we approach the argument from this point of view, whereby the mentally ill patient does not have the knowledge or the faculty of full consent required to commit a mortal sin, his is not a deformed image of God, since that image can only be deformed by sin. Certainly, it is the suffering image of God, but not a deformed image. He is a reflection of the mystery of the victorious Cross of the Lord. Inspired by the image of the Suffering Servant of Yahweh (Isaiah 53, 1-7) we are drawn to a conscious act of faith in the suffering Christ.

I dont think that God denies anyone a call and vocation in life leading them to holiness - none. I dont think that those suffering terribly with sereve mental illness are inferior creatures of God denied a vocation and call in life and that the presence of inner voices (or hearing voices if that is what you may mean) and even tormented by such inner voices means, conversely, that the person is not where they belong - and a moral assessment I think. Their vocation and call is a witness to the Suffering Christ and the “mystery of the victorious Cross of The Lord”.

To again address your statement: “inner peace and the absence of inner voices is a sign of being where we belong.” Certainly, I think inner peace and mental good health CAN be a sign of where we belong. I would not state it is the only sign, however, nor even necesssaril, of necessity, a defining sign. We belong in the state of Grace and about God’s Will for us. I think Mother Teresa for example experienced a severe lack of inner Peace and for a long time apparently (and a great surprise to us and many) yet she persevered and was an awesome woman in her life on earth. She was in the state of Grace and doubtless about God’s Will for her life.

If you happen to mean by “inner voices” mystical type locutions, then certainly receiving them in Peace and remaining in that Peace can be a sign that such locutions may be valid but should be subjected, I think, to a spiritual director and then being in Peace with what that spiritual director may state. If God is at work, who can be against it and thwart His Will. As Blessed Mary Mackillop said - do what you can and then trust in God for the rest.

But I am off topic and apologies.

TS

 

[JReducation]

Re those who suffer with mental illness, also see:

healthpastoral.org/text.php?cid=369&sec=4&docid=109&lang=en
*Javier, Cardinal Lozano Barragán *
*President of the Pontifical Council *
*for Health Pastoral Care, *
Vatican City
Is the Mentally Ill Patient a Deformed Image of God?

I dont think that God denies anyone a call and vocation in life leading them to holiness - none. I dont think that those suffering terribly with sereve mental illness are inferior creatures of God denied a vocation and call in life and that the presence of inner voices (or hearing voices if that is what you may mean) and even tormented by such inner voices means, conversely, that the person is not where they belong - and a moral assessment I think. Their vocation and call is a witness to the Suffering Christ and the “mystery of the victorious Cross of The Lord”.

To again address your statement: “inner peace and the absence of inner voices is a sign of being where we belong.” Certainly, I think inner peace and mental good health CAN be a sign of where we belong. I would not state it is the only sign, however, nor even necesssaril, of necessity, a defining sign. We belong in the state of Grace and about God’s Will for us. I think Mother Teresa for example experienced a severe lack of inner Peace and for a long time apparently (and a great surprise to us and many) yet she persevered and was an awesome woman in her life on earth. She was in the state of Grace and doubtless about God’s Will for her life.

If you happen to mean by “inner voices” mystical type locutions, then certainly receiving them in Peace and remaining in that Peace can be a sign that such locutions may be valid but should be subjected, I think, to a spiritual director and then being in Peace with what that spiritual director may state. If God is at work, who can be against it and thwart His Will. As Blessed Mary Mackillop said - do what you can and then trust in God for the rest.

But I am off topic and apologies.

TS

I believe that you may be confusing some finer points of the spiritual life here. Inner peace was certainly a hallmark of every saint. Spiritual consolations are not the same thing. Many did not experience the consolations of the soul. Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, Elizabeth Ann Seton, and Augustine are cetanly good expamples of holy men and women who hoped and waited for the spiritual consolations to come. Nonetheless, they had inner peace. Inner peace is that same quality that Mary experienced and models for us at the foot of the cross. When to the world all seems lost and all seems to nothing but pain, the soul is completely immune to it and even unaware of what the senses perceive. The soul rises above the perception of the sense and rests in the hope that God will eventually refresh it with eternal consolations, if not temporal as well.

Inner silence has nothing to do with locution, voices (real or imagined). One can have a lot of internal and external noise and still experience inner silence. Inner silence is that quality whereby the soul can hear the voice of God through the murmurrings of the mind, the voices of conscience, the noices and demands of the world, but none of these is strong enough to stir the soul’s attention from the Will of God and it is spoken in the depths of silence. While the senses and the cognitive functions perceive only aridity, the soul is in constant dialogue with God and the person is keenly aware of it, even though he or she is not enjoying it.

Inner silence is not the absence of sound, but the presence of peace in the core of the sou’s anatomical structure, where the voice of God is discerned. I know that I am doing God’s will and am where I belong in his eternal plan when all hell is breaking lose around me and I can walk into the Dark Night knowing that God is leading me, even though I cannot see anything. This was what Mother Teresa and others experience.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

I believe that you may be confusing some finer points of the spiritual life here. Inner peace was certainly a hallmark of every saint. Spiritual consolations are not the same thing. Many did not experience the consolations of the soul. Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, Elizabeth Ann Seton, and Augustine are cetanly good expamples of holy men and women who hoped and waited for the spiritual consolations to come. Nonetheless, they had inner peace. Inner peace is that same quality that Mary experienced and models for us at the foot of the cross. When to the world all seems lost and all seems to nothing but pain, the soul is completely immune to it and even unaware of what the senses perceive. The soul rises above the perception of the sense and rests in the hope that God will eventually refresh it with eternal consolations, if not temporal as well.

Inner silence has nothing to do with locution, voices (real or imagined). One can have a lot of internal and external noise and still experience inner silence. Inner silence is that quality whereby the soul can hear the voice of God through the murmurrings of the mind, the voices of conscience, the noices and demands of the world, but none of these is strong enough to stir the soul’s attention from the Will of God and it is spoken in the depths of silence. While the senses and the cognitive functions perceive only aridity, the soul is in constant dialogue with God and the person is keenly aware of it, even though he or she is not enjoying it.

Inner silence is not the absence of sound, but the presence of peace in the core of the sou’s anatomical structure, where the voice of God is discerned. I know that I am doing God’s will and am where I belong in his eternal plan when all hell is breaking lose around me and I can walk into the Dark Night knowing that God is leading me, even though I cannot see anything. This was what Mother Teresa and others experience.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you for sharing your understandings.

TS

 

[magdelaine1173]

Inner silence is not the absence of sound, but the presence of peace in the core of the sou’s anatomical structure, where the voice of God is discerned. I know that I am doing God’s will and am where I belong in his eternal plan when all hell is breaking lose around me and I can walk into the Dark Night knowing that God is leading me, even though I cannot see anything. This was what Mother Teresa and others experience

If someone is at peace with their place in the world and trusts that God will aid them is inner silence then. I am not sure if I have inner silence…Does staying calm even when in great pain from an infection count as inner silence? I was in the ER on Sunday, and the only one who was really upset was my Dad. He doesn’t like it when I get sick, none of my family does, but for some reason I had peace, knowing that God was with me. Even if I did not seem it to others at some points. I try to give my sufferings up to God as best I can…

 

[JReducation]

Inner silence is not the absence of sound, but the presence of peace in the core of the sou’s anatomical structure, where the voice of God is discerned. I know that I am doing God’s will and am where I belong in his eternal plan when all hell is breaking lose around me and I can walk into the Dark Night knowing that God is leading me, even though I cannot see anything. This was what Mother Teresa and others experience

If someone is at peace with their place in the world and trusts that God will aid them is inner silence then. I am not sure if I have inner silence…Does staying calm even when in great pain from an infection count as inner silence? I was in the ER on Sunday, and the only one who was really upset was my Dad. He doesn’t like it when I get sick, none of my family does, but for some reason I had peace, knowing that God was with me. Even if I did not seem it to others at some points. I try to give my sufferings up to God as best I can…

Sounds like inner silence to me.

Br. JR, OSF