Misunderstanding Veganism

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Even still, I believe raising happy animals to be slaughtered for food is still wrong, the main reason being that killing them deprives them of future pleasant experiences that they would have had. Those future pleasant experiences aren’t more important than the pleasant experiences of a few tasty meals. Moreover, I could never kill a dog or a cat unless doing so was absolutely necessary, and I apply that standard to farm animals.
What future pleasant experiences would a cow, pig or sheep have that would never be born because it is not needed for food?:confused::confused::confused:

People don’t breed Simmentals for pets.

http://www.banwyherd.co.uk/userimages/T-REX CORK SHOW(1).JPG

You would be denying this big boy life by going vegan.

BTW spencelo doesn’t abortion deny the unborn child of future pleasant experiences?

By your logic you should be against abortion, yet I have still to hear your opinion.
 
Actually, that’s not true at all.
There may be exceptions, but it’s a fact that diary cows are often forcibly impregnated.

freepress.org/journal.php?strFunc=display&strID=317&strJournal=35

“Several times a day, dairy cows are hooked by their udders to electronic milking machines, which can cause the cows to suffer electrical shocks, painful lesions, and mastitis.”

freefromharm.org/farm-animal-welfare/what-about-humanely-raised-milk-and-dairy-products/

“Dairy cows only lactate and produce milk when they become pregnant with calves, so to be considered a productive and economically-viable cow, she must be routinely impregnated, causing greater stress, greater likelihood of illness and premature death.”

youtube.com/watch?v=wF5THhPeBQE
 
I think you should visit a nice family farm. Factory farming is not the same as the family farm. And different operations operate differently. There are dairies I wouldn’t want to step foot in. And there are some that are cleaner than my kitchen.
I don’t doubt that there are small farms who raise happy animals – even if they live great lives, I would still be against killing them. I explain why here: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/whats-wrong-with-happy-meat/
 
If I had a Jersey cow for the milk and calves, a few heritage pigs, some sheep and an assortment of heritage chicken breeds I would keep a very well stocked larder. The animals would live a happy life. And my children would benefit in a thousand different ways.
You are truly describing the good life. I love my little Jersey cow :love:
 
What future pleasant experiences would a cow, pig or sheep have that would never be born because it is not needed for food?:confused::confused::confused:

People don’t breed Simmentals for pets.

You would be denying this big boy life by going vegan.
.
He’s gorgeous!!! ❤️
 
What future pleasant experiences would a cow, pig or sheep have that would never be born because it is not needed for food?:confused::confused::confused:
Imagine we bred a group of humans for organ replacements – they’ll live good lives for several years. Without the breeding program, those humans would never exist. Would you defend the program on the grounds that, without it, those humans would never have existed?
 
I love my little Jersey cow :love:
If you slaughter her for food, then I would question your understanding of “love.” If I love some person or some animal, there are certain things I could never do to them unless absolutely necessary - like kill them to gain pleasure.
 
Imagine we breed a group of humans for organ replacements – they’ll live good lives for several years. Without the breeding program, those humans would never exist. Would you defend the program on the grounds that, without it, those humans would never have existed?
Nope.

But then my views are consistent.

Humans are different from animals.

Humans have a God given dignity, and have a right to life from conception to natural death.

Humans are deprived of their right to natural birth when technology intervenes (IVF etc), but still made in the image an likeness of God.

So, “WE” wouldn’t breed a group of humans, because I would never be involved in a such an abominable enterprise.

You (or people who think like you) might, in which case I would move heaven and earth to stop you and bring you to justice (and I would definitely be pro-death penalty in this case) , and to free the poor people kept captive.

And thanks for giving us a hint of what your real morals are.

I’m sure those who read these posts will feel most enlightened.

You do not differentiate between humans or animals, and while you want Catholics to treat animals with a respect and dignity they do not merit (since they are not equal to humans and not made in the image and likeness of God) you would have no difficulty treating humans like animals in factory farms.

So, I’m taking it as fact that you are pro-abortion.

Do you see how the culture of death is connected to many of the post-modern philosophies, even when they purport to be Oh so sophisticated and caring of the earth?
 
You (or people who think like you) mights,
Actually I wouldn’t. I would oppose the human breeding program, and for similar reasons, I oppose the animal breeding program. So the difference between us is that I extend, to a greater degree, the circle of moral concern and compassion to nonhuman animals.
 
There may be exceptions, but it’s a fact that diary cows are often forcibly impregnated.

freepress.org/journal.php?strFunc=display&strID=317&strJournal=35

“Several times a day, dairy cows are hooked by their udders to electronic milking machines, which can cause the cows to suffer electrical shocks, painful lesions, and mastitis.”

freefromharm.org/farm-animal-welfare/what-about-humanely-raised-milk-and-dairy-products/

“Dairy cows only lactate and produce milk when they become pregnant with calves, so to be considered a productive and economically-viable cow, she must be routinely impregnated, causing greater stress, greater likelihood of illness and premature death.”

youtube.com/watch?v=wF5THhPeBQE
There is no doubt that dairy cows are stressed, which is a shame. There are places, like I said, that take very good care of their cows. My cow doesn’t seem to mind the milking machine. Though I spent quite a bit of money one it, and never use it because I don’t like it. She’s never gotten electric shocks, lesions or mastitis with me. None of my cows or goats have. Actually they have. From their calves. Big huge painful lesions from bite marks and gnaw marks.

My Jersey cow stands around the stanchion waiting for milking time. She’ll poke her head at the glass door on my patio if she gets impatient. She disappears into the woods and fields for hour. Comes to the house for snacks, at milking time and went she wants to be loved on or when she’s curious about what I’m up to. She likes bananas, apples, leftover bread, and she really likes those cranberry orange scones from Publix.

My holstein/angus cow was one of those ‘poor calves’ pulled off her mother at one day old. I bottle raised her. She comes when she’s called and ‘answers’ me from the fields and woods. When she sees my car pull up she runs to it because she somehow, I dunno how, thinks there are treats in it. I had nothing to do with it :rolleyes: I only milked her once because she was engorged when she had her first calf and she was a perfect lady on the stanchion. You’d think it was in her genes 😉 As I milk the Jersey girl, my holstein paces outside the stanchion waiting for her turn that doesn’t come. Poor thang 😦

When my brother visits the farm, wearing he hates all my animals, the cows follow him all over the farm and eat snacks he begrudgingly gives them.

Don’t get me started on what the calves have gotten into.

These are not unhappy animals 🙂 But you’re heart is in the right place 👍
 
Actually I wouldn’t. I would oppose the human breeding program, and for similar reasons, I oppose the animal breeding program. So the difference between us is that I extend, to a greater degree, the circle of moral concern and compassion for nonhuman animals.
No, it’s that you diminish the value of humans to that of animals.

Tell me your views on abortion - because they will prove me right or wrong.
 
No, it’s that you diminish the value of humans to that of animals.
Not true, as proven by the fact that I would oppose the human breeding program in my hypothetical, and simply extend the logic to nonhuman animals.
 
Not true, as proven by the fact that I would oppose the human breeding program in my hypothetical, and simply extend the logic to nonhuman animals.
Prove me right or wrong by telling me your views on abortion.

If you don’t have a consistent ethic then why should we listen to you moralize?
 
If you slaughter her for food, then I would question your understanding of “love.” If I love some person or some animal, there are certain things I could never do to them unless absolutely necessary - like kill them to gain pleasure.
I couldn’t slaughter her for food, that’s for sure. Bee and Bella will never be food. I don’t love calves that are destined for the meat packer. But they are still treated with dignity, respect. They are spoiled rotten and lead the good life until they are driven to the meat packer. Naturally one wants to keep their feelings comfortably distant from them.
 
Prove me right or wrong by telling me your views on abortion.

If you don’t have a consistent ethic then why should we listen to you moralize?
Like I said, my views are irrelevant. It’s possible to be a vegan advocate and be either for or against abortion, so revealing my position shouldn’t sway you in any way – some other vegan could believe the opposite.
 
Like I said, my views are irrelevant. It’s possible to be a vegan advocate and be either for or against abortion, so revealing my position shouldn’t sway you in any way – some other vegan could believe the opposite.
Wrong. If you have a consistent ethic that embraces the unborn then I would be far more open to listening to you.
 
I couldn’t slaughter her for food, that’s for sure. Bee and Bella will never be food. I don’t love calves that are destined for the meat packer. But they are still treated with dignity, respect. They are spoiled rotten and lead the good life until they are driven to the meat packer. Naturally one wants to keep their feelings comfortably distant from them.
Wait, so all your cows live out their natural lives on your farm?
 
Wrong. If you have a consistent ethic that embraces the unborn then I would be far more open to listening to you.
I don’t see why that should be the case. After all, I’m merely appealing to assumptions that you already hold – such as animal suffering and animal happiness matters. Veganism (or near-veganism) follows from those assumptions.
 
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