Misunderstanding Veganism

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spencelo said:
I don’t see why that should be the case. After all, I’m merely appealing to assumptions that you already hold – such as animal suffering and animal happiness matters. Veganism (or near-veganism) follows from those assumptions.
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No they don’t.

In your world livestock animals would not exist. And neither would millions of babies.
 
Just to lighten things up a little bit, this made me chuckle today…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(A Vegan Witch’s Brew, obviously.) 😃
 
spencelo said:
I don’t see why that should be the case. After all, I’m merely appealing to assumptions that you already hold – such as animal suffering and animal happiness matters. Veganism (or near-veganism) follows from those assumptions.
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Babies are mammals. Does their suffering at the hands of abortionists matter?
 
Spencelo:

When I first saw the abortion comment, I thought the thread would get derailed. However, it has become apparent that this does not have to be the case; your views on the matter would allow further discussion on the matter. It would give us further insight to your philosophy of human and animal life.
 
spencelo said:
Many people misunderstand my goals and intentions when I advocate for veganism, and much of the resistance seems to stem from a poor grasp of veganism itself–some view it as a “cult” or a “religion,” though is true. So I offer the following eloquent article in the hopes that it will promote more understanding and less hostility to the idea.
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If you want to be a vegan more power to ya. I’m vegetable and meat guy myself. Live and let live I always say. Is that what you believe in or are you just trying to cram your views down our throats?
 
Chrish1975 said:
If you want to be a vegan more power to ya. I’m vegetable and meat guy myself. Live and let live I always say. Is that what you believe in or are you just trying to cram your views down our throats?
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If I’m not mistaken, I think he’s horrified by the food factory conditions and I think he’s driven by that.
 
Chrish1975 said:
If you want to be a vegan more power to ya. I’m vegetable and meat guy myself. Live and let live I always say. Is that what you believe in or are you just trying to cram your views down our throats?
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Stating and defending for my views isn’t “cramming” anything down anyone’s throats. I suggest taking a closer look at the op article.
 
spencelo said:
No longer – I had a dog who passed away last year.
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Aww, I’m sorry 😦

Are you active in any animal rescues/supports?

Have you thought about lobbying for more humane farming practices that don’t turn everyone upsidedown but benefit the animals?
 
Rence said:
Aww, I’m sorry 😦

Are you active in any animal rescues/supports?

Have you thought about lobbying for more humane farming practices that don’t turn everyone upsidedown but benefit the animals?
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Thanks, and I’m not currently active with animal rescues right now. However, I have been helping the Non-human Rights Project which plans on filing their first case next year: nonhumanrightsproject.org/
 
I was vegan for 10 years but for health reasons had to adopt a low carb diet and I feel immensely better for it. I now eat eggs and raw milk from a small local farm and eat wild caught fish as well. I avoid supporttingt factory farming and always will. Factory farming IS torturing animals and those places are HELL ON EARTH for every single one of those creatures that has the misfortune of being stuck there. Along with the institutional cruelty that takes place on those farms day in and day out there is also gratitious cruelty that occurs more often than you would like to believe. The workers on factory farms and in large corporate slaughter houses have become numb and immune to animal suffering. This breeds even more unnecessary cruelty to animals on a regular basis.

Factory farming is the reason in my opinion that veganism even exists. There has never been a vegan culture or even a vegetarian culture. Would there really be a good reason to adopt vegetarianism if not for factory farming? If things were the same way they’ve been for most of human history. Small farms, etc… There would certainly be almost no reason whatsoever to adopt a vegan diet if this were the case. It is really hard if not impossible to make the case that eating eggs from pastured chickens is wrong.

This is a good article that connects factory farming with Catholic Moral Theology:
catholicmoraltheology.com/are…to-conversion/

I find this argument to be a good reason why Catholics should consider avoiding factory farmed products. Not to mention the human health concerns with such mass produced products as well.
 
Link0126 said:
I was vegan for 10 years but for health reasons had to adopt a low carb diet and I feel immensely better for it. I now eat eggs and raw milk from a small local farm and eat wild caught fish as well. I avoid supporttingt factory farming and always will. Factory farming IS torturing animals and those places are HELL ON EARTH for every single one of those creatures that has the misfortune of being stuck there. Along with the institutional cruelty that takes place on those farms day in and day out there is also gratitious cruelty that occurs more often than you would like to believe. The workers on factory farms and in large corporate slaughter houses have become numb and immune to animal suffering. This breeds even more unnecessary cruelty to animals on a regular basis.

Factory farming is the reason in my opinion that veganism even exists. There has never been a vegan culture or even a vegetarian culture. Would there really be a good reason to adopt vegetarianism if not for factory farming? If things were the same way they’ve been for most of human history. Small farms, etc… There would certainly be almost no reason whatsoever to adopt a vegan diet if this were the case. It is really hard if not impossible to make the case that eating eggs from pastured chickens is wrong.
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A very good post, IMO, like Rence’s posts.
 
spencelo said:
…"The word “veganism” denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude – as far as is possible and practical – all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose…
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So if I follow your definition veganism must be a philosophy strongly positioned against any reason for abortion. If I further follow your logic any so called vegan that supports abortion is going against the principle of non contradiction thus we should ignore him because he is not really able to build valid arguments. Do you agree with these statements?
 
spencelo said:
Many people misunderstand my goals and intentions when I advocate for veganism, and much of the resistance seems to stem from a poor grasp of veganism itself–some view it as a “cult” or a “religion,” though is true. So I offer the following eloquent article in the hopes that it will promote more understanding and less hostility to the idea.

huffingtonpost.com/ari-solomon/who-you-callin-vegangelic_b_290582.html

“The word “veganism” denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude – as far as is possible and practical – all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”

"If, as a meat-eater, being exposed to this reality bothers you, it is not the fault of the vegan. Lashing out or making up endless excuses doesn’t change the stark scientific fact that animals are suffering because of our taste buds. Your neatly packaged chicken breast, all wrapped in pristine plastic, was once part of an animal that felt fear and pain. It’s called responsibility and culpability, and we’re all to blame.

Now, you may try to argue that eating animals is a matter of personal opinion or choice, but again I’d have to disagree – this is not about your opinion versus my opinion, this is about animal suffering. You can’t discuss your “personal choice” of eating animals while leaving animals completely out of the conversation.

Think of it this way, if you were walking down the street and saw someone beating their dog, would you try to do something to stop it? The same principle applies here. Since eating animal foods is a question of want and like versus need, killing a sentient being, when there is absolutely no need – except for someone’s pleasure – becomes simply unnecessary and merciless."
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i have as much right to kill and eat my animals as the wolf does. It is in our nature. I just got my two hogs back from the butcher today and he did a great job.
 
Link0126 said:
I was vegan for 10 years but for health reasons had to adopt a low carb diet and I feel immensely better for it. I now eat eggs and raw milk from a small local farm and eat wild caught fish as well. I avoid supporttingt factory farming and always will. Factory farming IS torturing animals and those places are HELL ON EARTH for every single one of those creatures that has the misfortune of being stuck there. Along with the institutional cruelty that takes place on those farms day in and day out there is also gratitious cruelty that occurs more often than you would like to believe. The workers on factory farms and in large corporate slaughter houses have become numb and immune to animal suffering. This breeds even more unnecessary cruelty to animals on a regular basis.

Factory farming is the reason in my opinion that veganism even exists. There has never been a vegan culture or even a vegetarian culture. Would there really be a good reason to adopt vegetarianism if not for factory farming? If things were the same way they’ve been for most of human history. Small farms, etc… There would certainly be almost no reason whatsoever to adopt a vegan diet if this were the case. It is really hard if not impossible to make the case that eating eggs from pastured chickens is wrong.

This is a good article that connects factory farming with Catholic Moral Theology:
catholicmoraltheology.com/are…to-conversion/

I find this argument to be a good reason why Catholics should consider avoiding factory farmed products. Not to mention the human health concerns with such mass produced products as well.
Click to expand...
I’m glad you recognize the cruelty inherent in factory farming. In the case of small farms, where animals are still raised to be killed, I still have a problem: killing them deprives them of years of future pleasant experiences, which outweigh any human interests gained (if any) in a few tasty meals. I explain in more detail here: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/whats-wrong-with-happy-meat/
 
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