Misunderstanding Veganism

  • Thread starter Thread starter spencelo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
spencelo said:
Vegan health

gethealthymarshall.com/

veganhealth.org/
Click to expand...
Can I ask how long you’ve been vegan? I’m not debating that it may be possible for some people to thrive on the diet. I know people who have been vegan for multiple decades. I have no idea about their personal health however. I guess they are doing fine, or good enough not to be concerned.

I’ve read all about the health issues. I went around the country promoting veganism for two years when I worked for PETA. I have lived the diet for a decade. A couple links on a website won’t change my mind. When I eat low carb and no grains I feel amazing compared to how I used to feel, which was almost always completely drained along with other issues. My new diet has even cured my seasonal allergies which I have had my entire life.

I felt great on a vegan diet for a number of years but after a while it just didn’t work for me anymore. If you feel good more power to you. I actually wish I could do it as abandoning it was not an easy thing to do for moral reasons and because after 10 years it was really part of my identity.
 
triumphguy said:
Or you believe that humanely butchering it for meat is not harming it unnecessarily. But is the natural end of the livestock animal.
Click to expand...
It’s obviously not the “natural end” if the animal is butchered years before he or she would die of natural causes. So the harm is unnecessary since the only justification is the fulfillment is one’s taste buds. Will you stop buying animal products from factory farms? Will you seriously consider the following Catholic perspective? catholicmoraltheology.com/are-we-all-michael-vick-our-addiction-to-animal-cruelty-a-call-to-conversion/
 
spencelo said:
Untrue. I was talking about raising happy animals for food – I believe it would be wrong to kill them. If you bring a dependent, vulnerable creature into existence, then you have duties to him or her, which include not harming the creature unnecessarily. So either you bring the creature into existence and don’t kill it, or you don’t bring it into existence at all.
Click to expand...
false dilemma. Human nature and design requires the option to bring them into existence, raise them, and kill them for food. Hopefully before the wolf kills them for food by their nature
 
spencelo said:
It’s obviously not the “natural end” if the animal is butchered years before he or she would die of natural causes. So the harm is unnecessary since the only justification is the fulfillment is one’s taste buds. Will you stop buying animal products from factory farms? Will you seriously consider the following Catholic perspective? catholicmoraltheology.com/are-we-all-michael-vick-our-addiction-to-animal-cruelty-a-call-to-conversion/
Click to expand...
You are moralizing to me about the Catholic perspective yet you refuse to answer whether you are against abortion?

You’re kidding me right.:rolleyes:
 
triumphguy said:
You are moralizing to me about the Catholic perspective yet you refuse to answer whether you are against abortion?

You’re kidding me right.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You’re a Catholic, so you should follow Catholic principles, regardless of my particular views about Catholicism or abortion. What’s stopping you?
 
Stephen168 said:
It is moral for me just like it is moral for the wolf. It is in our design and nature to eat meat.
Click to expand...
It’s in our nature to be aggressive, so according to your logic, it’s okay for me to randomly assault people, which is absurd. Hence you should reconsider your justification.
 
spencelo said:
You’re a Catholic, so you should follow Catholic principles, regardless of my particular views about Catholicism or abortion. What’s stopping you?
Click to expand...
What is stopping me answering you is your refusal to show that you are consistent in your ethics.

You are the one presenting the argument.

I’m asking if you are consistent in living out that morality.

You are refusing to answer.

So why should I dignify your arguments by answering them?
 
spencelo said:
It’s in our nature to be aggressive, so according to your logic, it’s okay for me to randomly assault people, which is absurd. Hence you should reconsider your justification.
Click to expand...
Abortion is a fairly serious assault…
 
Stephen168 said:
It is moral for me just like it is moral for the wolf. It is in our design and nature to eat meat.
Click to expand...
Genesis 1:29 implies otherwise. God allowed us to eat meat b/c of sin, b/c of the flood. Health wise, I no longer think meat is the worst thing we could eat and responsible for all our modern diseases. I see now that processed foods and high sugar consumption is probably the main culprit. Unfortunately, the vegan diet tends to be high carb. Even if completely whole foods (which is the ideal vegan diet, but not the one that most people end up eating in favor of fake meat products, soy ice cream, etc…) it is still a carb based diet. This can be a problem for some people.
 
triumphguy said:
What is stopping me answering you is your refusal to show that you are consistent in your ethics.

You are the one presenting the argument.

I’m asking if you are consistent in living out that morality.

You are refusing to answer.

So why should I dignify your arguments by answering them?
Click to expand...
Abortion is not the thread topic, and I already explained that vegans can hold different views on abortion. If I say I’m against abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? If I say I’m for abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? Clearly no - so my answering your question has absolutely no relevance to the thread topic.

The relevant point is that, as a Catholic, you’re committed to adhering to Catholic principles, which entail either veganism or at least boycotting animal products from factory farms. Will you adhere to your Catholic principles? I suppose it’s fine if you don’t want to answer my question here, but I hope you will answer it honestly and reflectively for yourself.
 
spencelo said:
You’re a Catholic, so you should follow Catholic principles, regardless of my particular views about Catholicism or abortion. What’s stopping you?
Click to expand...
Since the Catholic Church has never had a prohibition against killing animals and eating their meat your use of Catholic perspectives to bolster your arguments is totally meaningless. Especially since you do not believe what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
Link0126 said:
Genesis 1:29 implies otherwise. God allowed us to eat meat b/c of sin, b/c of the flood. Health wise, I no longer think meat is the worst thing we could eat and responsible for all our modern diseases. I see now that processed foods and high sugar consumption is probably the main culprit. Unfortunately, the vegan diet tends to be high carb. Even if completely whole foods (which is the ideal vegan diet, but not the one that most people end up eating in favor of fake meat products, soy ice cream, etc…) it is still a carb based diet. This can be a problem for some people.
Click to expand...
Biblically speaking God created livestock before the Fall.
 
pete_29 said:
Since the Catholic Church has never had a prohibition against killing animals and eating their meat your use of Catholic perspectives to bolster your arguments is totally meaningless. Especially since you do not believe what the Catholic Church teaches.
Click to expand...
Does the Catholic Church not have a prohibition against inflicting extreme cruelty on animals? At the very least, Catholics should stop consuming factory-farmed products. See here for a Catholic perspective: catholicmoraltheology.com/are-we-all-michael-vick-our-addiction-to-animal-cruelty-a-call-to-conversion/
 
spencelo said:
Abortion is not the thread topic, and I already explained that vegans can hold different views on abortion. If I say I’m against abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? If I say I’m for abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? Clearly no - so my answering your question has absolutely no relevance to the thread topic.

The relevant point is that, as a Catholic, you’re committed to adhering to Catholic principles, which entail either veganism or at least boycotting animal products from factory farms. Will you adhere to your Catholic principles? I suppose it’s fine if you don’t want to answer my question here, but I hope you will answer it honestly and reflectively for yourself.
Click to expand...
So, you are against one sentient life form exploiting another. Right?
 
triumphguy said:
So, you are against one sentient life form exploiting another. Right?
Click to expand...
I’ve said what I needed to say, but apparently you’re intent is to focus on abortion, which is not the thread topic. I offer my explanation one last time:

Abortion is not the thread topic, and I already explained that vegans can hold different views on abortion. If I say I’m against abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? If I say I’m for abortion, would that affect your decision to turn vegan? Clearly no - so my answering your question has absolutely no relevance to the thread topic.

The relevant point is that, as a Catholic, you’re committed to adhering to Catholic principles, which entail either veganism or at least boycotting animal products from factory farms. Will you adhere to your Catholic principles? I suppose it’s fine if you don’t want to answer my question here, but I hope you will answer it honestly and reflectively for yourself.
 
triumphguy said:
What is stopping me answering you is your refusal to show that you are consistent in your ethics.

You are the one presenting the argument.

I’m asking if you are consistent in living out that morality.

You are refusing to answer.

So why should I dignify your arguments by answering them?
Click to expand...
The problem is that he thinks he is being consistent b/c many vegans approach ethics from the utilitarian view. This is an absolutely abominable ethical system that I used to argue against even in my PETA days. Their esteemed philospher is the utilitarian Peter Singer. Who is not only pro-choice but promotes infanticide saying we should have up to 20 days to kill the baby if birth defects or other issues are present. I’m not exactly sure if there are even requirements such as these necessary. I preferred to approach the subject from the “rights” perspective as laid out by Tom Regan.

So in a nutshell, he actually thinks he is being consistent as does Peter Singer. So this conversation will probably continue to be useless.
 
Spencelo, did you miss my other post? The one asking how long you’ve been vegan?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top