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jmcrae
Guest
True - there is a good deal of hair-pulling, scratching, and biting. But just watch what happens if an atheist comes along and attacks either one …
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Atemi
Guest
Hello First Love,
I am an ex-Catholic, but I married a Catholic. I totally understand your angst, but also understand the heightened anxiety considering that this change came after your marriage.
It seems that you have a godly husband, and I suggest you always pray that any road he embarks on is a road that only draws him closer to our Father.
What I would suggest you do is wait out your husbands present searching patiently and as a good example of a godly wife. Do not be overcome by fear of any sort. Christ is with you.
If that time comes where your husband should so choose to take that step of entering Catholicism and all that entails, then you must sit down and sort out all the details of how the marriage and the spiritual relationship will work from that moment on. This is very important, though maybe painful or awkward.
You must sort out worship arrangements between both of you, of course with the consideration of your present position in Christ as priority. You must especially sort out how the children will be raised and come to an agreement.
In all that you do, do not argue over matters of faith or debate amongst yourselves as to bring strife into your relationship. What he chooses is between your husband and his Master, not between you and him.
If there comes the time where this change may become a certainty, I suggest you learn as much as you can about Catholicism. Be sure to learn from all sources: from those who seek to promote the Catholic faith and from those who would be the only ones who would offer contrary information. As a spouse of a Catholic, you must now be equipped with all forms of information of what has been newly introduced into your home. I would give the very same advice if it was the other way around, for sure.
Pray always in faith. Stay true to the Word of God and remain obedient to what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
But most of all, with great wisdom you expressed the purest of all motivations and perspectives at the end of your post:
Stay true to Him and He will remain true to you, come what may.
My heart goes out to you as I have been in your shoes and I know there may indeed be rough times ahead for you. Feel free to PM me at any time.
May God keep you, and may He only strengthen your marriage through this when all is said and done.
…
I am an ex-Catholic, but I married a Catholic. I totally understand your angst, but also understand the heightened anxiety considering that this change came after your marriage.
It seems that you have a godly husband, and I suggest you always pray that any road he embarks on is a road that only draws him closer to our Father.
What I would suggest you do is wait out your husbands present searching patiently and as a good example of a godly wife. Do not be overcome by fear of any sort. Christ is with you.
If that time comes where your husband should so choose to take that step of entering Catholicism and all that entails, then you must sit down and sort out all the details of how the marriage and the spiritual relationship will work from that moment on. This is very important, though maybe painful or awkward.
You must sort out worship arrangements between both of you, of course with the consideration of your present position in Christ as priority. You must especially sort out how the children will be raised and come to an agreement.
In all that you do, do not argue over matters of faith or debate amongst yourselves as to bring strife into your relationship. What he chooses is between your husband and his Master, not between you and him.
If there comes the time where this change may become a certainty, I suggest you learn as much as you can about Catholicism. Be sure to learn from all sources: from those who seek to promote the Catholic faith and from those who would be the only ones who would offer contrary information. As a spouse of a Catholic, you must now be equipped with all forms of information of what has been newly introduced into your home. I would give the very same advice if it was the other way around, for sure.
Pray always in faith. Stay true to the Word of God and remain obedient to what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
But most of all, with great wisdom you expressed the purest of all motivations and perspectives at the end of your post:
Amen.
Stay true to Him and He will remain true to you, come what may.
My heart goes out to you as I have been in your shoes and I know there may indeed be rough times ahead for you. Feel free to PM me at any time.
May God keep you, and may He only strengthen your marriage through this when all is said and done.
…
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Atemi
Guest
But they must as good parents.The Church requires your husband to raise your children as Catholics, and respectfully asks you not to place any undue burden on him that might prevent him from doing so, or to do or say anything to the children that might cause them to doubt their Catholic faith.
The problem is this: one of the most fundamental parts of the Catholic faith is to teach the children that one of their parents belongs to a “sect” and believes a “defective” faith.
These are not my own words, but that of the Catholic pope.
This is incredibly divisive within the family unit, especially when it is taught to children in regards to one of their parents.
Catholics understandably do not like this when children are taught something similar about their own faith, but on the other side of things, it is expected that such things be taught to children about non-Catholic Christianity.
How unfortunate, and avoidable, all this is.
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RedSoxFan
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Thanks!
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First_Love
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Thank you all. I guess I expected a few more protestant responses (at least in this forum anyway) so I could get advice from both sides but it is a Catholic website so it’s all good! Atemi and Lucy212 thank you for your kind words of support. I can see that you know where I am coming from. Lucy, you have mentioned many of my fears and I appreciate your heartfelt honesty.
For those who are Catholic, if you could put yourself in my shoes and reverse the situation…how would you feel if you had married a Catholic who suddenly decided to convert? There is a feeling of hurt, betrayal, and anxiety for the spouse who remains rooted in the formerly mutual beliefs.
I don’t feel my husband will be any less of a Christian at all because I already know Jesus is his first love too no matter what denomination! I never insinuated that Catholic living is not Jesus centered as some of you seem to think. I think many Catholics and Protestants miss what it really means to be a true disciple of Jesus and experience the fullness of His love and blessings. Following Jesus is a decision of the heart that is not brought about by a certain denomination but by the revelation of the love of Jesus by the Holy Spirit.
As for the advice and questions presented to me, yes, I am studying Catholicism (trying to have an open mind) and I still disagree with much of the doctrine. There are several issues I have with Catholic doctrine (faith vs works, purgatory, praying to Saints, sinless state of Mary, etc.) but I can post these in a different thread. Please, don’t try to convince me of specific doctrine in this post though I do appreciate recommended reading…I am trying to get practical advice on how to handle a mixed marriage if my husband converts and I do not convert. I feel I have received an abundance of advice to study Catholicism and I will (and I appreciate the book recommendations…I think my husband has “Rome Sweet Home”).
I would still like your advice on my biggest concerns: church life together and raising a family. My husband will always be welcome to participate in every aspect of church life and is actually still a member of the church we currently attend but I can never really be a part of his church if he converts. As for having children, I sometimes feel we should not have any though we both desire to have a family. He seems oblivious to the trials we might face but knows I am deeply concerned. I did not marry a Catholic so I never agreed to raise my children as Catholics.
For those who are Catholic, if you could put yourself in my shoes and reverse the situation…how would you feel if you had married a Catholic who suddenly decided to convert? There is a feeling of hurt, betrayal, and anxiety for the spouse who remains rooted in the formerly mutual beliefs.
I don’t feel my husband will be any less of a Christian at all because I already know Jesus is his first love too no matter what denomination! I never insinuated that Catholic living is not Jesus centered as some of you seem to think. I think many Catholics and Protestants miss what it really means to be a true disciple of Jesus and experience the fullness of His love and blessings. Following Jesus is a decision of the heart that is not brought about by a certain denomination but by the revelation of the love of Jesus by the Holy Spirit.
As for the advice and questions presented to me, yes, I am studying Catholicism (trying to have an open mind) and I still disagree with much of the doctrine. There are several issues I have with Catholic doctrine (faith vs works, purgatory, praying to Saints, sinless state of Mary, etc.) but I can post these in a different thread. Please, don’t try to convince me of specific doctrine in this post though I do appreciate recommended reading…I am trying to get practical advice on how to handle a mixed marriage if my husband converts and I do not convert. I feel I have received an abundance of advice to study Catholicism and I will (and I appreciate the book recommendations…I think my husband has “Rome Sweet Home”).
I would still like your advice on my biggest concerns: church life together and raising a family. My husband will always be welcome to participate in every aspect of church life and is actually still a member of the church we currently attend but I can never really be a part of his church if he converts. As for having children, I sometimes feel we should not have any though we both desire to have a family. He seems oblivious to the trials we might face but knows I am deeply concerned. I did not marry a Catholic so I never agreed to raise my children as Catholics.
Isn’t this a problem since I would ask for the same respect and I will do all I can to raise my children as I feel God would have me raise them (which would obviously involve my belief system)? I will not deny my beliefs to protect those of another. This, of course, is my concern since I do not want this to be a point of huge division and hurt for me or my husband. I don’t know if I am willing to raise children in this situation. Of course, that’s ultimately up to God, but this is how I feel. I would rather protect our marriage than bring children into the world and have a lot of confusion not just between me and my husband but in the lives of our children.
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Atemi
Guest
You are very welcome.
Yes. This is an issue on all sides.
Amen.
I have read “Rome Sweet Rome.” Not a very good book, from any perspective, IMO.
It is mainly a recruiting book, IMV. It does not deal well at all with explaining doctrine. It waters down how serious many of the dividing issues really are.
Yes. This is part of the cost of such changes. I wish it were not so.
This may also be a serious issue for you because if your husband becomes Catholic, he is obligated not to use any birth control other than Natural Family Planning…as that is the only method allowed by the Roman Catholic Church.
Even so, he will not be allowed to use NFP except in a dire circumstance. Merely “not wanting children” was never taught to me as a reason to use NFP.
These are some more things that may be coming down the road.
God bless you.
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Rolltide
Guest
I wish I could give you more advice on your situation, but all I can do is relate my various experiences. I grew up with a Catholic mother and a Methodist father. My dad is really Methodist in name only, since he has not set foot inside a church for the purposes of worship in my lifetime. (He has gone to weddings, funerals, and all the various functions myself and my brother were involved in.) I was raised Catholic by my mother, and neither I nor my brother ever really experienced any issues with regards to having a religiously mixed marriage. Of course, the catch is that my dad simply let my mom raise us Catholic however she wanted, so there was no conflict.
My wife was originally a Southern Baptist, but was never very comfortable with their doctrine and was very open to changing religions when I met her. She converted to Catholicism, but this occurred before we were married. I realize neither really addresses your situation.
Now, if you have historical or doctrinal questions, I can help you out. I’m a professor of history at a small private southern college, so I can give you background on many of the historical issues of Catholicism. Let me know if that would be of any use to you.
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SD_Catholic
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Atemi
I would strongly disagree to this… although we are entitled to our opinions. Would you not agree that the Hahns faced a similar situation to what Lucy and First Love describe? This was the main reason for suggesting it… Scott went first and Kimberly was the one left wondering what would happen to their lives. I’m sure there are very few married couples that are as set in their beliefs more than what the Hahns were. Perhaps it could give Lucy and FL a sense of hope for there situations, and since FL already has the book it wouldn’t cost her a thing.
I wonder if they had been Catholic converting to Protestant if you would feel the same way or maybe look at the book with a different mindset. In the end did not both of them feel closer to God than they ever had their entire lives? I think you should agree that is very important in anyone’s life. By the way it was a story of their conversion… they have plenty of other books out that deal with Church doctrine, but I think Lucy and FL would find more comfort reading a book that relates to their current situations.
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lucy212
Guest
I have both read and listened to the Hahns. about 8 or 10 years ago a Catholic friend gave it to me when my husband and I were both still Protestant and were “on our way out” because of the creeping liberalism.
It may be of some help, but by the time we were in the thick of things, it didn’t apply to our situation.
I had thoroughly studied, prayed and had felt God calling me to become Orthodox. It was less a rejection of Catholicism and more an irresistible call of Grace that defied logic and good sense and anything practical. It was something i could “not” not do.
We agreed to respect each other’s decision.
We both harbored unspoken feelings of betrayal and hurt that came out later and would have probably been able to work out in time…we have 30 years experience doing just that.
But this challenge was more than we anticipated, and mostly resulted from allowing outside factors to enter into what should have been kept private and sacred; but we were caught off guard.
Words we had never spoken toward one another, or even dreamed we could speak, we found coming out of our mouths.
Maybe we were naive, and this is THE ONE THING I WANT TO GET ACROSS TO FIRST LOVE. You need to know that what has been your private life of love and faith, no matter how strong, how committed IF YOU LET IT, will become public battleground.
People who would never feel it their place to speak to you about such a private sacred thing as marriage, your relationship, and what is between you and your husband and God, suddenly feel free to advise everything up to and including “separating yourself” from anyone that may interfere with the practice of your faith.
If you don’t anticipate it, talk and plan for it, and guard your marriage with your very life, it could easily be destroyed.
I WOULD THINK THAT IF THIS IS HOW A CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX MARRIAGE IS TREATED, A CATHOLIC/PROTESTANT ONE MAY GET SIMILAR TREATMENT.
We were shocked by this almost “tribal” hatred that still exists between the East and West (that had nothing to do with us, anything we did, nor with the people who who still think that they must continue the feud, and allow no middle ground for the healing Grace of God to maybe thaw out some hearts.
It was like finding ourselves in the middle of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet…it was almost surreal.
Overnight I had become enemy, a heretic and schismatic to the Roman Catholics; people who probably couldn’t name the last 5 US presidents were telling me why the Latins were justified in sacking Constantinople.
And they also felt they could see straight through my heart and positively pronounce that my only problem is lack of humility…an unwillingness to submit to authority.
People who didn’t even know my name, knew what was only visible to God.
If they read anything about Orthodoxy, they were “recruiting” books, by a “respected” Roman Catholic convert from Orthodoxy, who I won’t name, but whose books are so full of error and lack of understanding that I have to wonder if he ever knew at all the Church that he left. It bears no resemblance to mine, yet this is the only “approved” reading about the Orthodox you will find in Catholic bookstores.
After awhile you find you yourself getting pulled in to the fray just to protect yourself. I have to read thousands of hours of history and theology; not just to try to understand why we are so hated in Roman Catholic circles, but to help educate and correct all the misinformation. And what makes me so angry at times, is that even if I would correct every misperception, explain every point about our about the Faith, doctrine, history and ecclesiology…that would usually leave them speechless and not understanding themselves why we were still in Schism, they would pull out one word and was banished into “nonexistence”: the Pope.
I will not use this thread to make one argument/ defense or Orthodoxy, so if anyone is even thinking about it, I don’t play your game anymore. Find another thread…there are many here wasting time and words, squandering charity and still fighting this fight.
There seems to be no middle ground, not even the Pope’s words that the Orthodox and Catholic are so close, and are both part of the True Church. I would be happy to occupy our “deficient” ground and work and pray toward healing, but that ground seems to keep being pulled out from under us.
First Love, I don’t want to frighten you; and I believe that that things can work even if he does convert, but you need to go into this with eyes wide open.
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jmcrae
Guest
First Love;
A couple of books that may be useful include When Only One Converts, and *Help! My Spouse is Catholic! * - which I can’t find on-line. But I’ve seen it at Catholic book stores, and it’s very good - it shows what the non-Catholic spouse has to expect on a day-to-day level. (The front cover has a cartoon of a family getting set to leave on a camping trip, and the woman is saying, “Hey, wait - it’s Sunday and I haven’t been to Mass, yet!” And the husband has his hands on his face, ready to cry.
A couple of books that may be useful include When Only One Converts, and *Help! My Spouse is Catholic! * - which I can’t find on-line. But I’ve seen it at Catholic book stores, and it’s very good - it shows what the non-Catholic spouse has to expect on a day-to-day level. (The front cover has a cartoon of a family getting set to leave on a camping trip, and the woman is saying, “Hey, wait - it’s Sunday and I haven’t been to Mass, yet!” And the husband has his hands on his face, ready to cry.
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jmcrae
Guest
I agree with you. I didn’t start liking that book until after I converted, because then I could relate to it a lot more. But before I converted, I couldn’t find any way to relate to it, and I didn’t find it helpful in answering my questions - he talks about how wonderful it was to learn all these things, but he never really mentions what, exactly, it was that he learned, nor how he learned it. For example the section where he talks about learning about Mary - I wanted to know, “What, Scott, did you learn about Mary?? And where did you find the information??” But he skates right over top of these things, without ever saying specifically what was going on.
But after I converted, I could relate to his sense of excitement and wonder, so I enjoy the book a lot more now, than I used to.
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lizaanne
Guest
I would ask you to really truly and in the deepest parts of your heart think about why this is not important to you. Doctrine, practice, marriage issues, everything else aside. Why would you NOT want to be part of The One True Faith? The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church which can trace its beginings back to Christ and his apostles. Please think and pray very carefully about why you would not want to be a part of that. It really is a very important and crucial point.
May God bless you and your husband during this difficult time.
~Liza
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lucy212
Guest
I don’t know the book, but I will look for it.
A little sense of humor goes much farther than the most sophisticated apologetics in holding a relationship together.
How we must make God laugh and cry.
(That is not an opening to discuss the impassability of God; or whether Christ laughed only with Human nature, but not His divine nature…)
I used to talk about things like American Idol, the latest Sean Connery movie, and my favorite flavor of Ben and Jerry’s…now I can’t get through the day without mentioning Divine essence vs Divine energy, and wondering if I said Saint Augustine rather than Blessed Augustine in yesterday’s conversation :bigyikes: -some people get their panties in a bunch over those things.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I don’t recall using the word “deficient” and it is NOT Catholic teaching that anyone who is not in full communion with the Catholic Church cannot be saved. for fuller debate search the relevant topics on the proper forum
the policy with regard to raising children is that the Catholic party must make a promise to do all in his power to hand on the Catholic faith to his children, and bring them to the sacraments, and the non-Catholic party MUST be informed of his promise and of his other obligations. I had not intended to give a blow by blow list of those obligations since they will be covered in his RCIA class. repeat the non-Catholic party MUST be informed of the obligations the converting spouse is assuming.
by the way, since it was not apparent in OP so I did not address it, someone seeking full communion with the Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox tradition requires very little in the way of preparation, certainly not the full blown typical RCIA program, and of course no rites proper only to the unbaptized. Catholics do NOT believe in rebaptism.
it is also perhaps worth noting that we use the word “convert” inappropriately when applied to a baptized Christian coming into the Catholic Church, since these brothers and sisters have already heard and accepted the gospel and received baptism and are initiated into the ONE Christian faith we all share.
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First_Love
Guest
Liza, I think you misunderstood me. I was not recognizing the Catholic church as “the one true church” I was stating that I would not claim that my denomination is “the one true church.” I think it is a dangerous comment to claim unless you are referring to ALL believers. I believe that anyone who is saved by the grace of God, who has believed and repented and accepted Jesus at their savior is a part of the body of Christ…isn’t that the true church? I think so. Anyway, I didn’t want this to be a doctrinal debate. I just wanted to clarify what I was saying. I am already a part of the body of Christ…that is important. Thank you for your caring words.
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First_Love
Guest
This is what I have a concern about and why I was asking people for advice. Just because I am informed does not mean I will contribute to making it possible for my (future) children to be a part of the Catholic Church. I feel I probably would rather not have children sometimes since I cannot honestly commit to supporting my husband in this should he convert. This is not because I am just mean or selfish…how can I fulfill that role and teach my children my beliefs, some of which are not aligned with the Catholic Church? I would expect the same respectful support from my husband as the Catholic church would ask of me. How can we both teach our beliefs (that differ) without interfering with the others’ teaching? It is not possible.
My personal opinion is that this is an interference on the part of Catholic leadership in telling spouses how to raise their children. I mean it is important to teach about Jesus. My church would definitely say it is important to teach children about the love of Jesus and what he did for us on the cross! The Bible says to train up a child in the way he should go. My parents did that and I love Jesus more than anything in the world. He is my guide, my First Love, and he alone has my heart and has primary authority over my life.
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jmcrae
Guest
It is the same for Catholics, and more so, because we take seriously the need to belong to His Church, rather than to one of the many other organizations that came about in rebellion against His Church, beginning in the 1500s AD, and continuing even today.
By belonging to His Church, we can be assured that the promises that He made to His Church apply to us, and that the words given to us by our leaders are, in fact, coming through them from Him, since He promised our original founders that “he who hears you, hears Me.” (Luke 10:16)
No such promise was ever made to any of the churches that have been founded since the early 1500s, beginning with the Lutheran church in 1521, and they all freely admit that anything they can’t find explicitly in the Bible (which they received from the Catholic Church; they did not “discover” it, although sometimes one wonders whether they think they did) is not able to be known to them. (They conclude that it must therefore be “non-essential,” but Christ founded a Church for the very purpose of ensuring that we can know these things, for the very reason that He considers them “essential.”)
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lucy212
Guest
First Love
You and your husband our in our prayers. My husband understands, probably better than I what he is going through, as I understand better what you are feeling.
I tried to send a message, but have been having trouble with their message system here.
If you didn’t get it, my blog is now listed in my profile and you
can contact me that way and I can get a message through.
Lucy
We are not enemies; Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant. We have only one common enemy who knows that to divide us is the first step in destroying us; and only our own pride and hardheartedness in clinging to these divisions (even in the name of truth and correct doctrine ) can end up robbing us of what our hearts desire most…to reunite with Him.
Before anyone flames me, I am not advocating universalism, only reminding us of Christ’s warning that it is impossible to have fellowship with God, or love God, if we hate or are at enmity with our brother. He, Himself set up the hierarchy…first make peace with your brother, then we can approach God and the work or reconciling ourselves with Him. It’s all part of the same seamless cloth.
May God’s healing love continue to heal the wounds we unknowing inflict on one another, and may He guide us all to love as He loves…emptying Himself, giving His all that we might turn back and receive all that He destined us to be…His Children and His friends.
You and your husband our in our prayers. My husband understands, probably better than I what he is going through, as I understand better what you are feeling.
I tried to send a message, but have been having trouble with their message system here.
If you didn’t get it, my blog is now listed in my profile and you
can contact me that way and I can get a message through.
Lucy
We are not enemies; Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant. We have only one common enemy who knows that to divide us is the first step in destroying us; and only our own pride and hardheartedness in clinging to these divisions (even in the name of truth and correct doctrine ) can end up robbing us of what our hearts desire most…to reunite with Him.
Before anyone flames me, I am not advocating universalism, only reminding us of Christ’s warning that it is impossible to have fellowship with God, or love God, if we hate or are at enmity with our brother. He, Himself set up the hierarchy…first make peace with your brother, then we can approach God and the work or reconciling ourselves with Him. It’s all part of the same seamless cloth.
May God’s healing love continue to heal the wounds we unknowing inflict on one another, and may He guide us all to love as He loves…emptying Himself, giving His all that we might turn back and receive all that He destined us to be…His Children and His friends.
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First_Love
Guest
Thanks Lucy. I have gotten your messages and I will be in contact. I appreciate your encouragement and even though you have told me what might be very difficult, your words have helped me to have a little more peace and patience in working through things with my husband.
God bless
God bless
D
Delraek
Guest
Wow! I’ve been Catholic all my life (45 yrs) and have never experienced any hatred toward any Christian faith including Orthodox. I guess I would have thought that the Orthodox doctrine being so close to Catholicism would have had more of an opposite effect - you know, the whole “kinship” thing. I’m sorry you have had such bad experiences with some Catholics, but I have to assume that most of us don’t have any antagonism toward you and/or your church…
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