Modern Translation of the Vulgate?

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I was thinking the other day how interesting it would be if the Vatican would do an official english translation of the Latin Vulgate. It would be a formal translation, literal and stylish, and have Saint Jerome’s prefaces and notes within it. It could be like a REAL Catholic study Bible in that regarde. What do you guys think?
 
I was thinking the other day how interesting it would be if the Vatican would do an official english translation of the Latin Vulgate. It would be a formal translation, literal and stylish, and have Saint Jerome’s prefaces and notes within it. It could be like a REAL Catholic study Bible in that regarde. What do you guys think?
We do have an official English translation of the Latin Vulgate. It is called the Douay-Rheims. We also had 2 modern Bibles based off of the Latin Vulgate during the 20th century. One will be going back into print shortly. This is the Ronald Knox Translation.
 
Hi Crimson,

It could be like a REAL Catholic study Bible

What are the Hebrew and Greek texts, from which we have our modern translations? Chopped liver?

Verbum
 
Hi Crimson,

It could be like a REAL Catholic study Bible

What are the Hebrew and Greek texts, from which we have our modern translations? Chopped liver?

Verbum
No, of course not. I just figured that because it was the Latin Vulgate it has such a rich history and what not.

btw, the DR has errors in it. Case in point.

Genesis 15:3 (where it has the woman crushing the serpents head, while the Hebrew has the child doing it) and Revelation 3:3 (it has “do penance” instead of “repent”)
 
No, of course not. I just figured that because it was the Latin Vulgate it has such a rich history and what not.

btw, the DR has errors in it. Case in point.

Genesis 15:3 (where it has the woman crushing the serpents head, while the Hebrew has the child doing it) and Revelation 3:3 (it has “do penance” instead of “repent”)
Revelation 3:3 is correct. “Do penance” that isn’t the only time that “Do penance” is in the D-R. The Latin Vulgate also states penance. Protestants don’t believe in penance so everything in their Bibles is repent or confess. All Bibles do have some error in them. But the the Latin Vulgate is free from doctrinal and moral error and the Douay-Rheims is its word for word English translation. Any more errors you can think of. If you can spot them, that is great. There are much less errors in the D-R than in the JB, NJB, RSV-CE, NRSV and NAB combined
 
If the greek says “repent” and the latin says “do penance” Don’t you think that’s a big difference sir? Now I’m not railing on the DR, it’s a beautiful translation personally speaking, those two passages were just two I have problems with because they seem to be changed from the original to fit Catholic doctrine.
 
If the greek says “repent” and the latin says “do penance” Don’t you think that’s a big difference sir? Now I’m not railing on the DR, it’s a beautiful translation personally speaking, those two passages were just two I have problems with because they seem to be changed from the original to fit Catholic doctrine.
No they were changed to fit Protestant doctrine.
 
So you’re saying that the original Hebrew and Greek is wrong when compared to the Vulgate?
No, but the Vulgate was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and is the most accurate Bible. But unless you know how to read and speak Greek or Hebrew you probably aren’t going to understand it. If the Vulgate says the Hebrew and Greek say “Penance” then it is “Penance” I don’t go back and change the word of God. The Catholic Church was lucky enough to give us the Bible we have today.
 
No, but the Vulgate was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and is the most accurate Bible. But unless you know how to read and speak Greek or Hebrew you probably aren’t going to understand it. If the Vulgate says the Hebrew and Greek say “Penance” then it is “Penance” I don’t go back and change the word of God. The Catholic Church was lucky enough to give us the Bible we have today.
So if I go look at the greek in Revelation 3:3 it’s going to say “do penance” and not “repent” is what you’re saying right?
 
So if I go look at the greek in Revelation 3:3 it’s going to say “do penance” and not “repent” is what you’re saying right?
If you can read Greek, that is what it will say. Why would the Catholic Church give us something that is faulty???
 
If you can read Greek, that is what it will say. Why would the Catholic Church give us something that is faulty???
Let’s see here…

*μνημόνευε οὖν πῶς εἴληφας καὶ ἤκουσας καὶ τήρει καὶ μετανόησον ἐὰν οὖν μὴ γρηγορήσῃς ἥξω ἐπὶ σέ ὡς κλέπτης καὶ οὐ μὴ γνῷς ποίαν ὥραν ἥξω ἐπὶ σε *

The word is metanoeō which means to “repent” as in the following cases.
  1. to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
  2. to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
At least that’s what I’m getting out of it. Now I’m not an expert on Greek so you’ll have to forgive me if I’m mistaken.
 
Let’s see here…

*μνημόνευε οὖν πῶς εἴληφας καὶ ἤκουσας καὶ τήρει καὶ μετανόησον ἐὰν οὖν μὴ γρηγορήσῃς ἥξω ἐπὶ σέ ὡς κλέπτης καὶ οὐ μὴ γνῷς ποίαν ὥραν ἥξω ἐπὶ σε *

The word is metanoeō which means to “repent” as in the following cases.
  1. to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
  2. to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
At least that’s what I’m getting out of it. Now I’m not an expert on Greek so you’ll have to forgive me if I’m mistaken.
It was translated “penance” for 1125 years, then after the rise of Protestanism, there bibles translated it as “repent” which Greek texts are you using? Those used in modern Bibles today are not as accurate as those translated by St. Jerome from 382-400. We can’t prove that those manuscripts are older than the ones that St. Jerome used. You said that the Vulgate has a rich history and such in one of your posts. Since you stated the D-R has errors in it, doesn’t that make the Vulgate faulty as well as the manuscripts that St. Jerome used. I highly doubt St. Jerome would change words to benefit Catholic teaching. The Protestants refuse to accept Catholic teaching so they changed words to benefit their doctrine, which is false. Repent and Penance are similar in definition. Protestants refuse to use the word penance although it is accurate. Not to say that repent isn’t accurate, but it is only half accurate
 
Here is from the Haydock Bible Commentary on Apocalypse 3:3

Ver. 1-6. To the Angel of the church of Sardis. He begins with a severe reprehension, thou hast the name of being alive, and thou art dead, which we may understand of the greatest part of them, and of being dead by the worst of deaths, which is that of sin. (Witham) — In the style of the sacred writers, to live, is to be in the state of grace, and to bring forth good works; as, to be dead, is to live in sin, and in the neglect of Christian duties. (Calmet) — Here we see that the opinion of men is no advantage to us, when our internal dispositions are not correspondent to our external appearance. For what we are in thy sight, O Lord, so much we are, and no more, says St. Augustine. — The bishop is charged with this fault, that he did not watch and take care of his flock. He is admonished to repent, and to strengthen those that were not dead, but ready to die.[1] (Witham) — God does not seek to surprise us and lay snares for us. But when he tells us that he will come like a thief, it is only to admonish us not to slumber. Had he wished to take us unawares, he never would have admonished us beforehand. (Calmet) — But thou hast a few names, &c. That is, a few persons not yet defiled, neither as to their consciences, souls, nor bodies. — They shall walk with me in white apparel, &c. It is a new way of expressing the happiness of heaven. (Witham) — White is the color of joy, festivity, and triumph. The Angels always appeared clothed in white. (Calmet)

Again we are called to repent, but also give penance.
 
I was thinking the other day how interesting it would be if the Vatican would do an official english translation of the Latin Vulgate. It would be a formal translation, literal and stylish, and have Saint Jerome’s prefaces and notes within it. It could be like a REAL Catholic study Bible in that regarde. What do you guys think?
We have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the best companion to the Bible ever written. We have the Magisterium, which has never taught error in faith and morals. And, oh yes, Catholics wrote Scriptures in the context of Catholicism for Catholics, and assembled the inspired written Tradition into the Bible.

What is wrong is taking Scriptures out of the context of Catholicism, defining them as you want, and telling the authoritative teaching Church built by Christ that it is wrong, and you know better than those Christ established to teach and interpret. It’s extreme arrogance to say that Catholics lack true teaching in some way. The Bible was never meant to be taken out of the context of Catholicism. Those who do, interpreting Catholic Scriptures as they desire, in opposition to the Catholic Church, are committing grave error.
 
We have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the best companion to the Bible ever written. We have the Magisterium, which has never taught error in faith and morals. And, oh yes, Catholics wrote Scriptures in the context of Catholicism for Catholics, and assembled the inspired written Tradition into the Bible.

What is wrong is taking Scriptures out of the context of Catholicism, defining them as you want, and telling the authoritative teaching Church built by Christ that it is wrong, and you know better than those Christ established to teach and interpret. It’s extreme arrogance to say that Catholics lack true teaching in some way. The Bible was never meant to be taken out of the context of Catholicism. Those who do, interpreting Catholic Scriptures as they desire, in opposition to the Catholic Church, are committing grave error.
Well good for you! Where was all this purity and authority when the Saeculum obscurum was going on?

(Removed link to article with apparent anti-Catholic origins and excessive undocumented allegations).

Or when Arianism was the prevailing theology? You know, when Saint Jerome said that the world woke up one day to find out it was Arian. Didn’t the Pope at the time sign on to this? Where was his invalible teaching denouncing it? Why was it known as Athanasius contra mundum? Why was poor little Athanasius against the world and thrown out of his church five times for defending the deity of Christ?

Now don’t get me wrong. I didn’t come to this forum to rail against Catholicism or promote Protestantism. I really didn’t. I came here to learn more about Catholicism from those who practice it and hopefully do it with some civility and grace. When you make statements such as the one above, I cannot help but responde in kind.

P.S. You can translate metanoeō as penance all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that the word means “repent” which is different from penance. Both the RSV-Catholic edition and the NAB translate it as repent, not penance. Do those Catholic editions also corrupt the Scriptures like we protestants do?
 
Well good for you! Where was all this purity and authority when the Saeculum obscurum was going on?

(Removed link to article with apparent anti-Catholic origins and excessive undocumented allegations).

Or when Arianism was the prevailing theology? You know, when Saint Jerome said that the world woke up one day to find out it was Arian. Didn’t the Pope at the time sign on to this? Where was his invalible teaching denouncing it? Why was it known as Athanasius contra mundum? Why was poor little Athanasius against the world and thrown out of his church five times for defending the deity of Christ?

Now don’t get me wrong. I didn’t come to this forum to rail against Catholicism or promote Protestantism. I really didn’t. I came here to learn more about Catholicism from those who practice it and hopefully do it with some civility and grace. When you make statements such as the one above, I cannot help but responde in kind.

P.S. You can translate metanoeō as penance all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that the word means “repent” which is different from penance. Both the RSV-Catholic edition and the NAB translate it as repent, not penance. Do those Catholic editions also corrupt the Scriptures like we prots do?
(Edited) You are Protestant and more than like of some denomination.

The RSV-CE and NAB are far from accurate. The RSV-CE is more accurate than the NAB. They aren’t as accurate as the manuscripts that St. Jerome used and they aren’t as accurate as the Latin. If the manuscripts that St. Jerome used said “penance” then it is “penance”. We don’t know for sure how those manuscripts read. They are no longer with us. The manuscripts that were used in translating the Protestant Bibles such as the Tyndale NT, Bishops Bible, Geneva Bible, Matthews Bible, Coverdale Bible and King James Version aren’t as accurate as those translated for the Vulgate. And the manuscripts that were found about 200 years aren’t as accurate either. The ones that St. Jerome used were the most accurate. I stand behind the Catholic faith when they say the Latin Vulgate is free from doctrinal and moral matters. In this case, “repent” and “penance” are a matters of doctrine.
 
Hi Tobinor,

No, but the Vulgate was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and is the most accurate Bible

What makes you say that? The Vulgate is a literary gem and furthermore is a witness to manuscripts we might not have had. Modern translations take the Vulgate into consideration. But it is not correct to assume, as you do in a post further down, that St. Jerome had access to a better text than we do. He collected the best manuscripts available, and that was not easy, but he did not have the benefit of modern scientific methods, which can establish the genealogy of the various manuscripts and establish a text that is as close as can be to the original, under the circumstances.

Your position on the Vulgate relies on “the Church”, but I’m sure you are aware that “the Church” thought it necessary to correct Jerome’s Vulgate, and that is why we have the Nova Vulgata.

Bible translation is always a work in progress, as we discover new manuscripts and new witnesses to manuscripts, as well as data on the life and time of bible authors and characters. It is not wise to stick at all costs to something because it is old.

Verbum
 
Hi Tobinor,

No, but the Vulgate was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and is the most accurate Bible

What makes you say that? The Vulgate is a literary gem and furthermore is a witness to manuscripts we might not have had. Modern translations take the Vulgate into consideration. But it is not correct to assume, as you do in a post further down, that St. Jerome had access to a better text than we do. He collected the best manuscripts available, and that was not easy, but he did not have the benefit of modern scientific methods, which can establish the genealogy of the various manuscripts and establish a text that is as close as can be to the original, under the circumstances.

Your position on the Vulgate relies on “the Church”, but I’m sure you are aware that “the Church” thought it necessary to correct Jerome’s Vulgate, and that is why we have the Nova Vulgata.

Bible translation is always a work in progress, as we discover new manuscripts and new witnesses to manuscripts, as well as data on the life and time of bible authors and characters. It is not wise to stick at all costs to something because it is old.

Verbum
St. Jerome had the best known manuscripts during his time. The versions of the Vulgate up to the release of the Nova Vulgata were based on the same manuscripts. I personally don’t agree with the Nova Vulgata fully. It omits in Luke 1:28, “Blessed art thou among women” Indeed each edition of the Vulgate improved on the previous edition. Scientist cannot prove that the manuscripts found 200 years ago were more accurate or older. I don’t even think we can put a date when the manuscripts that St. Jerome used deteriated. Still the fact remains that Latin Vulgate is the only Bible free from doctrinal and moral error. Why would we need a modern translation of the Vulgate in English anyway? We can’t prove that these manuscripts being used are more accurate than those used. We can only assume that St. Jerome had the most accurate.
 
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