Modest Swimwear

[The_Bucket]

FEMEN is run by a dude whose goal is basically to trick women into running around topless. So…

Anyway, photographers taking mass nude shots? I don’t… think that’s immodest actually. That’s art. Whether it’s your cup of tea or not is not a moral issue. But the intent is not to titillate, which is pretty much the ruler as to whether something is or is not modest.

 

[CesarAugustus]

FEMEN is run by a dude whose goal is basically to trick women into running around topless. So…

Anyway, photographers taking mass nude shots? I don’t… think that’s immodest actually. That’s art. Whether it’s your cup of tea or not is not a moral issue. But the intent is not to titillate, which is pretty much the ruler as to whether something is or is not modest.

I know that about FEMEN, but they have their antichristian agenda too.

For example, when some of their activists destroyed an Holodomor memorial that was a Crucifix (sadly it wasn’t something widely knew, like the Holodomor itself, not many people are a aware of that genocide), or when they target Bishops, and Churches.

About nude photography, Classical or Renaissance paintings (there are immodest ones among these too) are one thing, but this is different. Anyways, that is what I’ve gathered after some time reading about the topic, speaking with Priests, etc. As I said earlier, I’m an artist and graphic designer so reading about modesty, nudity in art, etc is relevant to my work and artistic endeavors.

 

[severus68]

Depends who it is. I’m no fan of PETA, for instance, but I think many of their protesters are sincere. They are, objectively, wrong in their views when it comes to say, comparing the eating of animals to human sacrifice or something. But they would not be immodest, just misguided.

Neither am I a fan particularly. . That nudity campaign " I would rather go naked than wear fur" was an anti-fur campaign. I support the cause but PETA’s methods are sometimes less than desirable.
I also have to say that I do not eat meat and would be happy if no one ate meat.

I must qualify what I said earlier. If a cause was to go naked to promote porn, for example, then the cause itself and its promotion would be wrong.

 

[severus68]

So, if some people dress immodestly is a sin, but if they are nude for whathever manifestation or public statement they are doing is not… how that works?

I actually said if someone dresses not with the intention to incite lust, it would not be a sin even if some consider her outfit to be immodest

Public statements/protests are not about inciting lust for the most.

 

[severus68]

The nude protests and displays I’m aware of, are immodest. Feminists, lgbt groups, FEMEN, and some photographer that got lots of people gathered nude in certain places.

About the last one, a Priest tried to block one of these via lawsuit, but I don’t know how it went.

What’s wrong with feminists?

 

[CesarAugustus]

I actually said if someone dresses not with the intention to incite lust, it would not be a sin even if some consider her outfit to be immodest

Public statements/protests are not about inciting lust for the most.

Not only intent matters. If the outfit don’t comply with Catholic standards of modesty, even if the person don’t have the intention to incite lust, is still bad.

What’s wrong with feminists?

Oh no, not more off-topic.

But, something quick.

In various South American countries, they, along lgbt groups and cultural marxists, are in the forefront of anticatholic hatred, vandalizing Churches, harassing Catholics, trying to silence Catholics in public positions, influencing the media, etc.

Images from the attack to and Cathedral in Argentina and to Catholics in november 2013:

4.bp.blogspot.com/-vPlGR5hGq-s/UHOOJS0k-UI/AAAAAAAAE-E/eVb1ycw38dA/s1600/Ataque+a+la+catedral+de+Posadas+11.JPG

4.bp.blogspot.com/-MxosGm7KE8I/UpQU-08ppSI/AAAAAAAAG9U/Pvq7ylXiOPg/s1600/30.jpg

A photo from an attack in another Cathedral:

losprincipios.org/uploads/300_0_blasfemia.jpg

Burning an effige of Pope Francis:

mdzol.com/files/image/489/489701/5295091ca3243_565_319!.jpg?

1.bp.blogspot.com/-9djBUxDdkSw/UpQQxy4OxmI/AAAAAAAAG58/UvRgqYUfQOM/s1600/Quema+1.jpg

A photo form another riot:

2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZBi7a3V17yg/UGRWWP7_AkI/AAAAAAAAF0o/oDIWVDdqHnA/s400/defensa%2Bcatedral.jpg

These are from Chile:

aciprensa.com/imagespp/size340/Ataque_Catedral_de_Santiago_020813.jpg

In that one, the abortionists got inside. In the photo, some Catholics are restoring some damages done to the Cathedral.

Photos from inside:

p1.trrsf.com/image/fget/cf/thumbox.terratv.terra.com/thumbox/freew/cnt486933_h348_w619_aNoChange_captan-momento-en-que-manifestacion-pro-aborto-irrumpe-en-catedral.jpg

13.cl/static/img/teletrece/630_marcha_aborto.jpg

A photo from another attack:

1.bp.blogspot.com/-XG0U810dNZU/UFp_MNMqlJI/AAAAAAAADoM/cDnIpc4YmXk/s1600/Ataque+a+la+catedral.jpg

It says approximately:

“Legal abortion now”

“The only church that enlightens is the burning one” (that was something that the communists and anarchists in the 30’s said, they were burning Churches and killing Catholics in Spain at the time).

Disguting, horrible… and these anticatholic hordes still like to paint themselves as “oppressed”…

 

[severus68]

]Not only intent matters. If the outfit don’t comply with Catholic standards of modesty, even if the person don’t have the intention to incite lust, is still bad.

Unfortunately, someone’s standards of modesty are sometimes touted as Catholic standards.

Oh no, not more off-topic.

You brought up feminists.

But, something quick.

In various South American countries, they, along lgbt groups and cultural marxists, are in the forefront of anticatholic hatred, vandalizing Churches, harassing Catholics, trying to silence Catholics in public positions, influencing the media, etc.

Images from the attack to and Cathedral in Argentina and to Catholics in november 2013:

4.bp.blogspot.com/-vPlGR5hGq-s/UHOOJS0k-UI/AAAAAAAAE-E/eVb1ycw38dA/s1600/Ataque+a+la+catedral+de+Posadas+11.JPG

4.bp.blogspot.com/-MxosGm7KE8I/UpQU-08ppSI/AAAAAAAAG9U/Pvq7ylXiOPg/s1600/30.jpg

losprincipios.org/uploads/300_0_blasfemia.jpg

Burning an effige of Pope Francis:

mdzol.com/files/image/489/489701/5295091ca3243_565_319!.jpg?

1.bp.blogspot.com/-9djBUxDdkSw/UpQQxy4OxmI/AAAAAAAAG58/UvRgqYUfQOM/s1600/Quema+1.jpg

Some info in Spanish:

losprincipios.org/difusion/encuentro-nacional-de-mujeres-en-san-juan.html

A photo form another riot:

2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZBi7a3V17yg/UGRWWP7_AkI/AAAAAAAAF0o/oDIWVDdqHnA/s400/defensa%2Bcatedral.jpg

These are from Chile:

aciprensa.com/imagespp/size340/Ataque_Catedral_de_Santiago_020813.jpg

In that one, the abortionists got inside. In the photo, some Catholics are restoring some damages done to the Cathedral.

Photos from inside:

p1.trrsf.com/image/fget/cf/thumbox.terratv.terra.com/thumbox/freew/cnt486933_h348_w619_aNoChange_captan-momento-en-que-manifestacion-pro-aborto-irrumpe-en-catedral.jpg

Feminism is about equality, non-dominance, choice. There are some who have forgotten what it means, have corrupted the term or have lost their way.
13.cl/static/img/teletrece/630_marcha_aborto.jpg

A photo from another attack:

1.bp.blogspot.com/-XG0U810dNZU/UFp_MNMqlJI/AAAAAAAADoM/cDnIpc4YmXk/s1600/Ataque+a+la+catedral.jpg

It says approximately:

“Legal abortion now”

“The only church that enlightens is the burning one” (that was something that the communists and anarchists in the 30’s said, they were burning Churches and killing Catholics in Spain at the time).

Disguting, horrible… and these anticatholic hordes still like to paint themselves as “oppressed”…

 

[CesarAugustus]

Unfortunately, someone’s standards of modesty are sometimes touted as Catholic standards.

I’m referring to what I have read from Popes, the Catechism, and what I have gathered after speaking (or reading what they write) with Priests and other Catholics,

You brought up feminists.

I thought people here was aware of what they do in some prostesst, so, it was relevant to the topic of immodesty, since these protests I’m referring to, like the november of 2013 attack to a Cathedral in Argentina, included the feminists and lesbians molesting the Catholics guarding the Cathedral, doing sexual acts in front of them, etc.

Feminism is about equality, non-dominance, choice. There are some who have forgotten what it means, have corrupted the term or have lost their way.

I know what feminism supposedly is about. And I know what they stand for here. And I’m aware of the damage they have done since the 20th century. Promotion of abortion, contraception, attacks of the family, on Catholicism, etc.

 

[Galbin]

I know what feminism supposedly is about. And I know what they stand for here. And I’m aware of the damage they have done since the 20th century. Promotion of abortion, contraception, attacks of the family, on Catholicism, etc.

That’s tarring all feminism with the same brush!! Feminism has allowed women to work outside the home; it has allowed women to have medical rights (for example their husband does not need to know their medical information); it has supported women in leaving violent men and it has also fought for equal pay and maternity leave. Not all feminists are gung-ho abortion lovers either. For example I read of a woman whose husband forced her to get abortions because the children were women and he used violence to force her to abort. Yet she is supported by feminist groups working in domestic violence who help women like her. If not for them, she’d be stuck with this wife beater.

 

[CesarAugustus]

That’s tarring all feminism with the same brush!! Feminism has allowed women to work outside the home; it has allowed women to have medical rights (for example their husband does not need to know their medical information); it has supported women in leaving violent men and it has also fought for equal pay and maternity leave. Not all feminists are gung-ho abortion lovers either. For example I read of a woman whose husband forced her to get abortions because the children were women and he used violence to force her to abort. Yet she is supported by feminist groups working in domestic violence who help women like her. If not for them, she’d be stuck with this wife beater.

I have studied that topic a lot… I have read answers like yours in lots of ocassions… where I live, and in nearby countries, various feminist groups use the topic of domestic abuse, etc, as a bait to gain support, while at the same time, pushing for contraception, abortion, etc. They have done a devastation over here, and with the help of cultural marxists, liberals and lgbt groups. Now, modesty is not regarded as important, lots of garbage in the media (sexualized shows, ads, etc), anticatholic hatred, destruction of family, gender ideology and lgbt indoctrination in schools, culturally encouraged sins (fornication, pornography, etc)… is so disgusting, yet these people, think they know what’s better for us… they have robbed us of our heritage, they are trying to vanish what is left of Christendom. And they have the support of NGO’s and goverments.

For example, the riots I posted about earlier, in novemeber 2013 in Argentina, are part of an event that is sanctioned by the Secretary of Culture of that area.

 

[thewanderer]

Not only intent matters. If the outfit don’t comply with Catholic standards of modesty, even if the person don’t have the intention to incite lust, is still bad.

The problem is there is no set “Catholic standard of modesty” for all occasions, places, times, and peoples. Now, since even complete nudity has its place and is clearly moral in certain circumstances, and since the Church has no definitive teaching on when it is moral and when immoral to be nude, all each individual has to go off of is their own conscience. Now, because of that, so long as they form their conscience according to Church teaching and honestly seek the truth it doesn’t matter whether or not they end up being right, or agreeing with you. In such a situation it would be perfecetly moral for them to go nude so long as their carefully formed conscience permits it. That comes directly from Church teaching and cannot be contested.

 

[severus68]

I have studied that topic a lot… I have read answers like yours in lots of ocassions… where I live, and in nearby countries, various feminist groups use the topic of domestic abuse, etc, as a bait to gain support, while at the same time, pushing for contraception, abortion, etc. They have done a devastation over here, and with the help of cultural marxists, liberals and lgbt groups. Now, modesty is not regarded as important, lots of garbage in the media (sexualized shows, ads, etc), anticatholic hatred, destruction of family, gender ideology and lgbt indoctrination in schools, culturally encouraged sins (fornication, pornography, etc)… is so disgusting, yet these people, think they know what’s better for us… they have robbed us of our heritage, they are trying to vanish what is left of Christendom. And they have the support of NGO’s and goverments.

For example, the riots I posted about earlier, in novemeber 2013 in Argentina, are part of an event that is sanctioned by the Secretary of Culture of that area.

What has modesty to do about those happenings?
Domestic abuse is so very real especially in places where there are no or limited human rights or where enforcement is lax.

This insistence on feminism causing abortion etc is simplistic. Taking away or not giving women equal rights is wrong and about control.

We have digressed from the topic.

 

[CesarAugustus]

**What has modesty to do about those happenings? **
Domestic abuse is so very real especially in places where there are no or limited human rights or where enforcement is lax.

This insistence on feminism causing abortion etc is simplistic. Taking away or not giving women equal rights is wrong and about control.

We have digressed from the topic.

In previous pages, nudity in protests was brought, so, I posted info about some immodest manifestations.

Domestic abuse is real, but my point, is that over here, some feminists groups use that as a bait to gather more people, but, at the same time, they push for abortion, contraception, etc. There are various battles against Catholics instigated by these groups and their allies.

 

[CesarAugustus]

The problem is there is no set “Catholic standard of modesty” for all occasions, places, times, and peoples. Now, since even complete nudity has its place and is clearly moral in certain circumstances, and since the Church has no definitive teaching on when it is moral and when immoral to be nude, all each individual has to go off of is their own conscience. Now, because of that, so long as they form their conscience according to Church teaching and honestly seek the truth it doesn’t matter whether or not they end up being right, or agreeing with you. In such a situation it would be perfecetly moral for them to go nude so long as their carefully formed conscience permits it. That comes directly from Church teaching and cannot be contested.

So, what various Popes, moral theologians, priests, and other Catholics wrote about the subject doesn’t matter…

 

[edwest2]

That’s tarring all feminism with the same brush!! Feminism has allowed women to work outside the home; it has allowed women to have medical rights (for example their husband does not need to know their medical information); it has supported women in leaving violent men and it has also fought for equal pay and maternity leave. Not all feminists are gung-ho abortion lovers either. For example I read of a woman whose husband forced her to get abortions because the children were women and he used violence to force her to abort. Yet she is supported by feminist groups working in domestic violence who help women like her. If not for them, she’d be stuck with this wife beater.

My mother worked outside the home in the 1950s. The top job for women in the US is the same as it was in the 1950s: secretary. A husband should be a trusted friend as well. All men are not wife beaters.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Baby_Bach]

One question. What is truth? If people can wear whatever they want, and we all have our opinions… then how do we know what is correct, to get oneself to heaven? This is a legitimate question, as heaven is our goal, right?

I understand and agree that the Catholic church doesn’t have actual specifics for what to wear, but it does call for purity and chastity, these are virtues we are to live by. This is what I like to go by… personal opinion, perhaps, but when I talk about Mary like standards… Mary herself spoke of modesty in dress to the children of Fatima. Are you saying that she was wrong with her specifics of what one should wear?

fatima.org/essentials/requests/mid.pdf

 

[thewanderer]

So, what various Popes, moral theologians, priests, and other Catholics wrote about the subject doesn’t matter…

That is not what I said. Of course they matter, and need to be taken into account and each given the appropriate weight in forming ones conscience, but the fact remains that even with all that is out there there is no authoritative Church teaching on when it is moral and when immoral to be nude. Because of this it is ultimately a decision that is left to an individual’s well-formed conscience, so, even if they come to a different conclusion than you, so long as they have a well-formed conscience and are honestly seeking the truth they will not sin in following their conscience, even if they are ultimately mistaken. As I said, this is an official Church teaching, not really something that can be disputed.

 

[The_Bucket]

One question. What is truth? If people can wear whatever they want, and we all have our opinions… then how do we know what is correct, to get oneself to heaven? This is a legitimate question, as heaven is our goal, right?

I understand and agree that the Catholic church doesn’t have actual specifics for what to wear, but it does call for purity and chastity, these are virtues we are to live by. This is what I like to go by… personal opinion, perhaps, but when I talk about Mary like standards… Mary herself spoke of modesty in dress to the children of Fatima. Are you saying that she was wrong with her specifics of what one should wear?

fatima.org/essentials/requests/mid.pdf

So it is your opinion then that women should not wear shorts in public, or even at home? I don’t even know where to start on that.

Our Lady’s message is a good one. It’s when men (and women!) try to take certain cultural norms and apply them everywhere and for all time that we run into trouble. Even the Holy Father can stumble on that account; and fortunate for us all that commentary on standards of dress are not doctrine and are not infallible statements.

 

[severus68]

One question. What is truth? If people can wear whatever they want, and we all have our opinions… then how do we know what is correct, to get oneself to heaven? This is a legitimate question, as heaven is our goal, right?

I understand and agree that the Catholic church doesn’t have actual specifics for what to wear, but it does call for purity and chastity, these are virtues we are to live by. This is what I like to go by… personal opinion, perhaps, but when I talk about Mary like standards… Mary herself spoke of modesty in dress to the children of Fatima. Are you saying that she was wrong with her specifics of what one should wear?

fatima.org/essentials/requests/mid.pdf

No, she did not.Try the Vatican link on Fatima.

 

[CesarAugustus]

That is not what I said. Of course they matter, and need to be taken into account and each given the appropriate weight in forming ones conscience, but the fact remains that even with all that is out there there is no authoritative Church teaching on when it is moral and when immoral to be nude. Because of this it is ultimately a decision that is left to an individual’s well-formed conscience, so, even if they come to a different conclusion than you, so long as they have a well-formed conscience and are honestly seeking the truth they will not sin in following their conscience, even if they are ultimately mistaken. As I said, this is an official Church teaching, not really something that can be disputed.

If they have a well-formed conscience, and study these topics… probably they aren’t going to end in a nude protests or “happening”.

Again, I don’t know why so many people in this thread are so interested on excusing lax positions regarding modesty.