Modesty for women and men

[johnnyjones]

Oh please. Guard what you say and do, do not hinge a man’s sin on what a woman wears. Men who go on on about how visual they are, how they need women to help them not sin, need to learn self control and how to look at a woman as a person.

If a man lusts, he sins, full stop.

Sin starts in the mind. “Guard” what you look at. Why even mention the word" modest"? It must be an outdated obsolete word. Most men already have physical self control, so that doesn’t need to be learned. What responsibility does a woman have? Is it all about the man?
Hey, I like women, and looking at them. I’m just telling you the word modest (in dress) exists for a reason. It was spoken about in scripture because God knows certain presentations can cause a man to stumble.

You can deny that until the cows come home but don’t take it up with me, take it up with Gods word. I’m always skeptical of “men who go on about” the visual irrelevance of a woman.

 

[johnnyjones]

So leave a woman to be responsible for whatever sin she commits and men should take full responsibility for the sins they commit. Its a cop-out and a cry baby attitude for men to point fingers at women.

Your first sentence is excellent. The second part sounds like the culture needs no guidelines.The “cry baby, finger pointing” has been conjured up in your mind. Even other women (as evidenced by a recent female poster) recognize that clothing has a bearing on how a man can perceive a woman. It may be 100% wrong for a man to have a lustful view of a provocitively dressed woman, never the less it exists. Good luck reversing billions of years (if your an evolutionist) of male programing as he looks at a woman.

 

[johnnyjones]

Your welcome!

Talk about regulations when it comes to dressing. You should see the specifics when it comes to the US military uniform. There is a book that specifies EVERYTHING on what it allowed to what isn’t.

Earrings, necklaces, bracelets and rings must all be a certain size and color. Hair can’t be “faddish” and must be pulled back a certain way or cut a certain way. The uniform must be worn a certain way.

However, females still look very stylish and flattering wearing their dress uniforms. I’m particular to the Marine’s class A or B. With a nice pair of pumps, females look outstanding.

BTW, if I’m conditioned by western society then I’m thanking God for that. I like living in a civilized society that promotes freedom. Western society developed absolutely everything you all wear. Including men’s suits, slacks, ties and anything else men would consider modest for themselves.

Despite what anyone wore in Jesus’s time, it’s interesting to note that those countries haven’t changed much over the past couple thousand years. I’m in favor of progress and in favor of my choices. I’ll be choosing my sundresses over a trash bag, thank you.

Choice is a great thing. It just depends on what you choose. I’m glad Christianity isn’t the origin of scantily created fashion as suggested. Freedom is awesome but it also can promote undesireable activity. Your free to watch and participate in pornography, your free to have an abortion. Where did the words “sluty clothes” come from. Why do mothers and fathers encourage their daughters not to dress a certain way?. Could they be concerned about image and how men may look at them? There are reasons behind things.

Personally I thank God for freedom, not some of the garbage that comes with it. I am not telling women to wear a “trash bag”. I brought up the extreme end of both spectrums. I do believe there are undeniable benefits of women covering up in Islamic culture. Of course I like seeing a woman in a pretty dress as a preference though.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It may be 100% wrong for a man to have a lustful view of a provocitively dressed woman, never the less it exists. Good luck reversing billions of years (if your an evolutionist) of male programing as he looks at a woman.

Complaining that the job is hard is just more of a cop out. It doesn’t make it any less something for guys alone to deal with. Period. Honestly, I’m a guy and if you come at me telling me ‘good luck reversing billions of years (if your an evolutionist) of male programing’, I would gladly say that I’m at least trying without having to cheat by making the load lighter. You may like lessening the burden of weakness but I’ve got a sense of honor that’s too strong for that.

Even other women (as evidenced by a recent female poster) recognize that clothing has a bearing on how a man can perceive a woman.

I recognize that the way I dress has a bearing on why people think I’m a nerd. Does it make it any less deplorable and stupid for them to assume in the first place?

Honestly, why do people trust their eyes so much? I’ve got a fading eyesight and let me tell you all right now, blind people won’t be missing much in terms of capacity to judge someone’s internal character.

 

[severus68]

Complaining that the job is hard is just more of a cop out. It doesn’t make it any less something for guys alone to deal with. Period. Honestly, I’m a guy and if you come at me telling me ‘good luck reversing billions of years (if your an evolutionist) of male programing’, I would gladly say that I’m at least trying without having to cheat by making the load lighter. You may like lessening the burden of weakness but I’ve got a sense of honor that’s too strong for that.

 

[johnnyjones]

Complaining that the job is hard is just more of a cop out. It doesn’t make it any less something for guys alone to deal with. Period. Honestly, I’m a guy and if you come at me telling me ‘good luck reversing billions of years (if your an evolutionist) of male programing’, I would gladly say that I’m at least trying without having to cheat by making the load lighter. You may like lessening the burden of weakness but I’ve got a sense of honor that’s too strong for that.

I recognize that the way I dress has a bearing on why people think I’m a nerd. Does it make it any less deplorable and stupid for them to assume in the first place?

Honestly, why do people trust their eyes so much? I’ve got a fading eyesight and let me tell you all right now, blind people won’t be missing much in terms of capacity to judge someone’s internal character.

Those are all interesting words but it was God that knew that the job was hard thats why he put comments about the issue in sacred scripture. It’s written down for a reason, and that reason is to help reduce the possibility for stumbling. God wants to lessen the burden and prevent sin, thats why he instructed women to dress modestly.

Pride cometh before the fall. Many men have had honor, and many men have fallen.
It’s strange that you would associate “nerd” fashion with sexuality as if that’s an equal comparison… They are worlds apart .

Ah, who cares about assumptions about the way a girl dresses, right? I’ll leave it to you to tell the fathers of 18 year old girls not to comment on their sexy attire.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Kathryn ANN,

I love reading your posts Your so calm :hug1:

-Nicki

Oh, :curtsey:thank younickiwool! How kind of you to say that. I love these forums. Many helpful ideas from everyone, and most of the time, very gently given. Welcome to the forums!
Blessings on your day!:angel1::harp:
Kathryn Ann:hug1::heaven:

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Your welcome!

Talk about regulations when it comes to dressing. You should see the specifics when it comes to the US military uniform. There is a book that specifies EVERYTHING on what it allowed to what isn’t.

Earrings, necklaces, bracelets and rings must all be a certain size and color. Hair can’t be “faddish” and must be pulled back a certain way or cut a certain way. The uniform must be worn a certain way.

However, females still look very stylish and flattering wearing their dress uniforms. I’m particular to the Marine’s class A or B. With a nice pair of pumps, females look outstanding.

BTW, if I’m conditioned by western society then I’m thanking God for that. I like living in a civilized society that promotes freedom. Western society developed absolutely everything you all wear. Including men’s suits, slacks, ties and anything else men would consider modest for themselves.

Despite what anyone wore in Jesus’s time, it’s interesting to note that those countries haven’t changed much over the past couple thousand years. I’m in favor of progress and in favor of my choices. I’ll be choosing my sundresses over a trash bag, thank you.

Kelfa28, You’re so right about the dress uniforms. My mother was a Wave in WWII,:angel1: and she looked so lovely then. I think she said that at the time, there were some restrictions on a few things, but she always managed to “tweak” things a little.

Freedom is a wonderful thing! We can certainly enjoy our freedoms (as ladies and gentlemen) and not get carried away with styles that seem to “skirt” :curtseyno pun intended!) the limits of societal norms (if we have any such limits left!)

I know there’s a saying “Everything in moderation, even moderation.”

By the way, have you and our other posters here seen a marvelous book from several years ago called "A Return to Modesty.? It was written while the young lady was in college, and she is a wonderful author.

She challenges many of the over-sexualized habits of college co-eds, and was very much for the freedom to choose to be chaste and modest in spirit, behavior and in dress. I think she was reacting to some very edgy behaviors, rather than simple talking about everyday clothing. She wanted the freedom to be herself in the midst of her college experience where friends were pushing her to accept their “norms.”

I believe she mentioned some questionable clothing lines for young girls, outfits with messages written across the back of slacks, for example, for 4-12 year olds. As a Grandmother,:angel1: I agree with her on many things. It is a very thoughtfully written book. I’m sure it’s at the library for those who would like to literally, “check it out.”:compcoff:

Blessings!
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[Kelfa28]

Kelfa28, You’re so right about the dress uniforms. My mother was a Wave in WWII,:angel1: and she looked so lovely then. I think she said that at the time, there were some restrictions on a few things, but she always managed to “tweak” things a little.

Freedom is a wonderful thing! We can certainly enjoy our freedoms (as ladies and gentlemen) and not get carried away with styles that seem to “skirt” :curtseyno pun intended!) the limits of societal norms (if we have any such limits left!)

I know there’s a saying “Everything in moderation, even moderation.”

By the way, have you and our other posters here seen a marvelous book from several years ago called "A Return to Modesty.? It was written while the young lady was in college, and she is a wonderful author.

She challenges many of the over-sexualized habits of college co-eds, and was very much for the freedom to choose to be chaste and modest in spirit, behavior and in dress. I think she was reacting to some very edgy behaviors, rather than simple talking about everyday clothing. She wanted the freedom to be herself in the midst of her college experience where friends were pushing her to accept their “norms.”

I believe she mentioned some questionable clothing lines for young girls, outfits with messages written across the back of slacks, for example, for 4-12 year olds. As a Grandmother,:angel1: I agree with her on many things. It is a very thoughtfully written book. I’m sure it’s at the library for those who would like to literally, “check it out.”:compcoff:

Blessings!
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

Your mom was a WAVE? How lovely! Huge fan of the WW 2 uniforms. I’m thinking the tweaking might have been the kind of pumps they could wear or the shade of lipstick they applied.

Sounds like a good book. I shall look into it.

Once again, I don’t favor revealing clothes. I do have limits. I just think that there can be, and is, a difference between trashy and flattering. I don’t think the words are interchangeable. I wouldn’t be caught wearing sweats with messages written on my behind. I pay close attention to the length of my skirts and tops. I don’t wear heels and I rarely ever wear makeup.

I have a daughter who has a father with final say on what his daughter can walk out of the house in. What I might think is cute, he might say no to. That’s okay with me.

 

[johnnyjones]

Your mom was a WAVE? How lovely! Huge fan of the WW 2 uniforms. I’m thinking the tweaking might have been the kind of pumps they could wear or the shade of lipstick they applied.

Sounds like a good book. I shall look into it.

Once again, I don’t favor revealing clothes. I do have limits. I just think that there can be, and is, a difference between trashy and flattering. I don’t think the words are interchangeable. I wouldn’t be caught wearing sweats with messages written on my behind. I pay close attention to the length of my skirts and tops. I don’t wear heels and I rarely ever wear makeup.

I have a daughter who has a father with final say on what his daughter can walk out of the house in. What I might think is cute, he might say no to. That’s okay with me.

You sound like a sensible person.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Those are all interesting words but it was God that knew that the job was hard thats why he put comments about the issue in sacred scripture. It’s written down for a reason, and that reason is to help reduce the possibility for stumbling. God wants to lessen the burden and prevent sin, thats why he instructed women to dress modestly.

Sacred Scripture also says that God admonishes those who judge on the outside. So which is it? Will you follow the way of the weak or actually try to ascend the boundaries of your fallible vision?

Pride cometh before the fall. Many men have had honor, and many men have fallen.
It’s strange that you would associate “nerd” fashion with sexuality as if that’s an equal comparison… They are worlds apart .

Equating pride with honor? Who are you to tell me what a false comparison is? And frankly, if you looked at how people judge nerds from how they look with the way the modesty police judges those who they find ‘below’ their standards, they are far closer than you think.

Ah, who cares about assumptions about the way a girl dresses, right? I’ll leave it to you to tell the fathers of 18 year old girls not to comment on their sexy attire.

If it’s been a major cause of delays and is the only thing that’s dragging me into father-daughter drama, I’m already way ahead of you.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Your mom was a WAVE? How lovely! Huge fan of the WW 2 uniforms. I’m thinking the tweaking might have been the kind of pumps they could wear or the shade of lipstick they applied.

Sounds like a good book. I shall look into it.

Once again, I don’t favor revealing clothes. I do have limits. I just think that there can be, and is, a difference between trashy and flattering. I don’t think the words are interchangeable. I wouldn’t be caught wearing sweats with messages written on my behind. I pay close attention to the length of my skirts and tops. I don’t wear heels and I rarely ever wear makeup.

I have a daughter who has a father with final say on what his daughter can walk out of the house in. What I might think is cute, he might say no to. That’s okay with me.

Yes, my mother, :flowers:rest her soul,was a WAVE in WWII, and I believe it* was* the shade of lipstick. She favored one that was a bit glamorous,:curtsey: and always found a way to smuggle it out, at least for her photos in uniform.

Later when they were married, my :knight1:father liked her to wear a shade that had a hint of light purple. I’ve seen something similar by Revlon, but I certainly cannot wear it but my grown daughter can (for certain occasions.) She:angel1: is always modest and applies the makeup gently and expertly.

Definitely, the word “flattering” is not interchangeable with" flashy" or “trashy”! What’s wrong with a nice classic, timeless look?

I cannot wear heels and they can give people bunions, so that’s not for me. I know the difference between being overly made up (I have decades of theatre experience!) and just working gently with nature! At my age, I need it!

I wish all young ladies would practice it a little so that they know the difference between that classic, age appropriate look and that which is just going overboard. There’s the Cleopatra look and on the other side there’s the timeless look of :angel1:Grace Kelly or Jackie O.

That’s good to have watchful parents that care. Children and teens need limits! For that matter, we all do.
Best wishes,
Kathryn Ann

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

She challenges many of the over-sexualized habits of college co-eds, and was very much for the freedom to choose to be chaste and modest in spirit, behavior and in dress. I think she was reacting to some very edgy behaviors, rather than simple talking about everyday clothing. She wanted the freedom to be herself in the midst of her college experience where friends were pushing her to accept their “norms.”

Nobody should try to force you to wear anything. That’s what’s really wrong with this whole Modesty VS Fashion debate. It’s a debate with a premise based on human shallowness.

When you try to make women dress like we’re in the 1950s or the 1800s, you are no different from the woman who wants all girls to dress up like Lady Gaga. A father who decrees that his daughter wear Puritan dresses is no different from a mother who nags her son to wear tight jeans.

You want to dress like you jumped out of the Sound of Music? Go ahead.You want to dress like you jumped out of Scott Pilgrim? Go ahead. It’s YOUR choice. Just keep your fashion senses to yourselves and stop thinking that you see is all you need to learn about somebody. Don’t attempt to ‘read’ others just from their clothes. You’re not Sherlock Holmes.

There might lines drawn every now and then but ultimately, they’ll crumble in the face of ever-changing contexts and cultures. Heck, even the CCC admits to this instability.

 

[johnnyjones]

Sacred Scripture also says that God admonishes those who judge on the outside. So which is it? Will you follow the way of the weak or actually try to ascend the boundaries of your fallible vision?

Equating pride with honor? Who are you to tell me what a false comparison is? And frankly, if you looked at how people judge nerds from how they look with the way the modesty police judges those who they find ‘below’ their standards, they are far closer than you think.

If it’s been a major cause of delays and is the only thing that’s dragging me into father-daughter drama, I’m already way ahead of you.

What verses are you using in reference to" judge"ing ? Be careful with the verses you site and that you understand them… Scripture does not contradict, so it’s not a “which is it?” We are all fallible as you rightly point out but it is important to prevent your brother from stumbling.

YOU equated pride with honor. They are two separate sentences. Pride= a high opinion of one self. Honor -was your word, and frankly many men are capable of losing their honor, quite quickly I might add. Asserting honor is not some invincible wall against half dressed women, although it is admirable if successful.

Why put any restrictions on clothing at all using your logic. The old I’m “way ahead of you” statement. I can tell you brother unless you’ve walked in my shoes, you aint ahead of me, believe me.

 

[mitex]

I think its okay for modesty to wear a pair of jeans. To make a woman only wear a dress is oppressive.

Now if she wants to wear said dress go ahead. But it should never be forced.

 

[severus68]

Those are all interesting words but it was God that knew that the job was hard thats why he put comments about the issue in sacred scripture. It’s written down for a reason, and that reason is to help reduce the possibility for stumbling. God wants to lessen the burden and prevent sin, thats why he instructed women to dress modestly.

Pride cometh before the fall. Many men have had honor, and many men have fallen.
It’s strange that you would associate “nerd” fashion with sexuality as if that’s an equal comparison… They are worlds apart .

Ah, who cares about assumptions about the way a girl dresses, right? I’ll leave it to you to tell the fathers of 18 year old girls not to comment on their sexy attire.

We all fall and we should pick ourselves up and try again not blame others for our sin.

Good parents teach their kids from young, not so good parents dictate. Once the kids are of legal age, they make their own decisions asking for advice from parents they love.

In an earlier post you referred to “slutty clothes”. I am quite sure the term 'slutty" is not a term Christ taught us to use with regard to women or anyone. Some people (and that includes men ) do not always dress with the best of taste but it does not give anyone the right to judge their souls or use disparaging/insulting terms on them.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

What verses are you using in reference to" judge"ing ? Be careful with the verses you site and that you understand them… Scripture does not contradict, so it’s not a “which is it?” We are all fallible as you rightly point out but it is important to prevent your brother from stumbling.

Personal responsibility plays a far more critical role than easing that responsibility for others. You see it in so many verses from Samuel being chastised for basing on lofty statures to Jesus telling people to look into their own sins before that of others. That should tell you how much priority to uphold on easing the load vs working on it.

Asserting honor is not some invincible wall against half dressed women, although it is admirable if successful.

For you. Don’t blame others if you lack the strength and dignity. Rise above it instead of whining. And FYI, I said it takes a greater sense of honor to focus on rising above one’s weaknesses instead of asking others to make things easier for you.

And FYI, when I said honor, you said pride. Do the logic.

Why put any restrictions on clothing at all using your logic. The old I’m “way ahead of you” statement. I can tell you brother unless you’ve walked in my shoes, you aint ahead of me, believe me.

I’ve a sister who’s getting into modeling. Honestly, once you’ve asserted that all this concern and unease over appearances has become a great waste of everyone’s time, you’ll find standards like yours crumble. Fast.

 

[novusCatholic]

Follow this link to watch a great homily on dressing modestly (especially at Mass) by Fr. Dominic Mary on EWTN.

 

[TwoTurtles]

PART 1:
The topic of modesty seems to get quite a bit of debate which I have learnt. I think it is really good that we are all talking about this and seeing people’s different perspectives, even if I happen to strongly disagree with some people, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it is interesting to see how passionate some people are whether for or against modesty and all that goes with it.

To the people that have said that it is a choice and no one should be forced to wear something, I agree 100%. I once upon a time dressed immodestly, and hated people telling me what I should be wearing or not. My change came about after my “re-version” into the Catholic Faith, and a male friend gently talking to me about what is modesty, why dress modestly etc. He never ever forced me into wearing something, made me feel guilty about what I wore, or anything like it. When I made the decision to change my clothes, it was because my heart was ready to make the change. I wanted to do what was pleasing to Jesus, and so I followed the advice of my confessor and the various other advice I saw on EWTN, etc.

If people would like to call me self-righteous, on my high horse, or whatever, that’s fine, say what pleases you. I know I still have a long way to go too. In fact, what may seem modest to me, another will call immodest, and vice versa. We are all on our own spiritual journey, and should seek always the Truth and pray for the grace to accept it when we find it.
I have checked out all the things everyone has asked me to see on here, and there are some things that I found quite hard to accept, and that I may never accept, only God knows… So I went to seek advice from not one Priest, lest I get a biased opinion, but 3 Priests. So from the various books I have looked at, videos I’ve watched, and advice I’ve received, I am able to say that common sense must be used when deciding what is modest or not (for yourself). It is not for us to “judge” others in their attire.
The Catholic Church has not made an official ruling on what is modest or not, because of various different reasons, including cultural issues.
But we can take the guidelines She has given us, and be sensible in following them according to hearts, advice from spiritual directors, personal prayer life, etc.

Ultimately, I would want to do whatever God wants me to do. I would want my view on modesty and the clothes I wear, amongst other issues, to be in line with God’s Will and what He desires. So, like the Commandments, I would want Him to change MY heart so that I conform to His Will, instead of trying to BEND HIS WILL to conform to mine!

There are many things in life that I do not want or may want for that matter, or that I do not agree with, but no matter what the topic, if it is something that is AGAINST what His view is, and what His Will is, then as hard as it would be for me to accept I would certainly pray for the grace to show me the Truth and for the grace to submit myself to it.
It is His Will for me that will bring me the True Freedom and Happiness that our Faith professes in Jesus Christ.

No matter what any one says, I will never be convinced that modesty is an unimportant issue, that it has nothing to do with purity and chastity, and the age old arguement just like 'Keep God out of my Bedroom" - Keep modesty out of fashion/my home/my family/fill in the blank/etc

CCC2521 “Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate centre of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves towards them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.”

The Body and Soul cannot be separated. The body reveals the state of the Soul, and the Soul reveals the state of the Body. To say that I can dress immodestly but my heart is pure, is a contradiction. Because when you know the true value of your body (men and women) and the sacredness and true beauty of it, you would not reveal it in a base way.

I am not a Theologian and have not done any professional studies, but I would recommend to all to familiarise yourselves with Blessed John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, Christopher West’s Theology of the Body (JPII’s TOB for lay people pretty much), Jason and Crystalina Evert’s various talks and website www.chastity.com.

These brilliant people discuss the beauty of our sexuality the way God created it. It doesn’t abase it to nothing.

The reason for this thread is I have a modest clothing line, which is sold online only. I received major interest from women, but who were reluctant to buy online and wanted to try on the clothes. So I am having a Dress Party, similar to the good old Tupperware Parties, where they can come try on the dresses.

Now some may think these clothes are fuddy duddy, others may find them attractive. Each has their own taste. I am sure all us ladies who will be there will have different standards of modesty. I am taking it upon myself to find information about modesty for girls to read while they are there and I plan to do it in an informative gentle way - just like God gave the grace to me those years ago through my male friend.

 

[TwoTurtles]

PART 2:

What I have found through advertising this event, is that most ladies that are coming have been praying for a modest line of clothing to be available, and majority of them are all for this event and very supportive. They believe in the sanctity, beauty and sacredness of the body. They believe that modesty is not just an attitude towards clothing, but also to one’s behaviour and speech. But, they certainly are in agreement that modest clothing is an important issue and not only do we do it for God, but we also do it to help our brothers.

People are misunderstanding when they think that we are giving the guys a “get out of jail” card. That’s not what it is about. Males and females are made differently. (PLEASE IF ANYONE KNOWS THE NAME OF THE TALK BY JASON EVERT ON SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THE WAY MALES THINK PLEASE MENTION). Males do think differently and are wired differently. Now, if I know this and accept this, why wouldn’t I want to help my brother in Christ on his journey to Heaven? More importantly, personally, I know that I wouldn’t want to wear a piece of clothing knowing that any male is going to look at me in an impure way. To know that someone has lusted after you is not a good feeling at all.

And for the guys, if you know that we ladies are tempted easily in some matter, why wouldn’t you want to help us if you could in minimising that temptation? Isn’t that what we are called to do? Didn’t Christ Himself tell us there is no greater love than that of him who lays down his life for his friend? Then why are leaving each other to fend for ourselves? That is NOT the Christian spirit. The Christian Spirit is the Spirit of the Christ. And the Spirit of Christ is Love Itself. Where is the Love?

So… this event I am organising is NOT to point the finger at ANYONE. It is NOT to scandalize ANYONE. It DOES NOT require permission from anyone (although I am getting all my material cross checked by a Priest for any Doctrinal errors, lest I be called an HERETIC!!! ).

It is simply to sow a seed. The Lord will water it with His grace as it pleases Him.

I know with me personally, I have learnt that when I am strongly against a topic, or what someone may say to me in regards to an issue, I find that there is something deeper going on within me. There is a deeper reason as to why I am reacting the way I am. And I pray to Mary to show me what it is, show me why am I reacting this way so that She can then take me to the Foot of the Cross, where I can then open my heart to receive the Lord’s Healing/Forgiveness, receive the graces needed to make ammends/fix the issue, and can move forward and grow from the experience in virtue and holiness.

So I thank you for all your feedback, and kind words.
May God show ALL of us (ME INCLUDED) the Truth and grant us the Grace to ACCEPT it, and SUBMIT ourselves to it completely.
God Bless you all