Modesty is partly cultural-true or false?

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Rozellelily

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I come from a Bosnian Croat background :croatia: and live in Australia :australia:.

My version of modesty is:

Beach-boobs and bum fully covered (either one piece or two piece) in the water and kaftan or towel over costume when walking around out of the water.

Everyday wear:maxi dresses or other longer dresses,pants or short dresses that don’t have cleavage and are at least mid thigh length.
I will wear shorts but not if they show the bum cheek.

This is pretty standard for females of my background.
Even though Croatia is a Catholic country,there is really little mentioned about modesty.
It is just expected that people will dress in the street with decency.
On my Bosnian side,there are Muslim people from our background too and the women will either dress same as above,or will wear hijab if they interpret their Quran that way.

I also know some Muslim girls from my background that dress extremely sexily but that’s their business.

I’ve noticed on this forum,that some people from USA seem to hold a “stricter” version of modesty than we do,or also more that the Aussie background people here do.

Therefor modesty standard is partly cultural-yes?

Personally I like the way that Melania Trump dresses (but we can’t all afford a wardrobe like this!)
 
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Yeah, I think it’s partially cultural. It’s a bit like with Sunday clothes.
There are regions in Europe where it’s a bit weird when you don’t go to church dressed like you would go to classical concert for example (Poland :poland: at least from my experience). I live in the Czech Republic :czech_republic: and most people were “normal” clothes to Church like jeans.
 
It is definitely cultural. It was considered immodest for a woman to expose her head in the ancient near east (and in fact still is in many of those countries). Yet modern Christian women walk around without head coverings. The Catechism explicitly teaches that modesty is partially contingent on culture.
 
clclnn said:
Clothes that cover what should be hidden is the universal standard.
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Is not even remotely the universal standard at least not according to what you consider “standard”. Ever pick up a National Geographic Magazine?

(Note: I’m not a fan of NG and acknowledge how damaging it can be for marginalized peoples. It’s just an easy reference.)
 
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I’ll differ slightly here. What one wears as clothing and society judges then as adhering to society’s judging as modest for that time and for society would be cultural.

What modesty itself is --which does include how one covers one’s body, or presents oneself to others–goes far beyond clothing, though. So in that sense it is only cultural in so far as the culture itself demands a standard, and can indeed be countercultural.

Today’s culture in the US doesn’t bat an eye at seeing T shirts emblazoned with immodest statements, vulgar language. However, a modest person, even if ‘her culture or his culture’ thought the clothing ‘adequate/modest’, would not choose to wear those things.
 
Considering that you just wrote off millions, if not billions, of people with your flippant remark about “standards” and “getting around modesty,” you might do well to reconsider your approach.
 
Did you have a point? Or were you just agreeing in general? Again, what “should be hidden” is cultural. As in the list changes depending on your culture. The culture of a nun is the culture of the convent, so I would expect them to be mostly covered, perhaps all but faces and hands depending on the habit of the specific order. Says absolutely nothing about the wider culture of the specific location in Africa.
 
Kullervo said:
Yeah, I think it’s partially cultural. It’s a bit like with Sunday clothes.
There are regions in Europe where it’s a bit weird when you don’t go to church dressed like you would go to classical concert for example (Poland :poland: at least from my experience). I live in the Czech Republic :czech_republic: and most people were “normal” clothes to Church like jeans.
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So, please explain a bit more? If you go to a classical concert, you dress up to some degree, but not church? Why is that? Why dress up for a concert?
 
I’m just saying people in the Czech Republic :czech_republic: (including priests) this it’s acceptable to wear jeans in Church. I would go to a big classical concert (at least in Europe) they wouldn’t let me in without the prefered clothing.
 
I see. So, the catechism is wrong when it says the form of modesty varies from culture to culture, and real life examples from India, Africa, the Americas, the pacific islands, etc are just… ?
 
Rozellelily said:
I come from a Bosnian Croat background :croatia: and live in Australia :australia:.

My version of modesty is:

Beach-boobs and bum fully covered (either one piece or two piece) in the water and kaftan or towel over costume when walking around out of the water.

Everyday wear:maxi dresses or other longer dresses,pants or short dresses that don’t have cleavage and are at least mid thigh length.
I will wear shorts but not if they show the bum cheek.

This is pretty standard for females of my background.
Even though Croatia is a Catholic country,there is really little mentioned about modesty.
It is just expected that people will dress in the street with decency.
On my Bosnian side,there are Muslim people from our background too and the women will either dress same as above,or will wear hijab if they interpret their Quran that way.

I also know some Muslim girls from my background that dress extremely sexily but that’s their business.

I’ve noticed on this forum,that some people from USA seem to hold a “stricter” version of modesty than we do,or also more that the Aussie background people here do.

Therefor modesty standard is partly cultural-yes?

Personally I like the way that Melania Trump dresses (but we can’t all afford a wardrobe like this!)
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To the topic question, … Yes.

Adam and Eve didn’t wear clothes before they sinned. AFTER they sinned they wore covering. IMV, That statement says a whole bunch.
 
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Rozellelily said:
noticed on this forum,that some people from USA seem to hold a “stricter” version of modesty than we do,or also more that the Aussie background people here do.

Therefor modesty standard is partly cultural-yes?
Click to expand...
Modesty can be viewed as being in the eye of the beholder too… for instance, some beaches do not require that tops are worn… In those instances, neither pride or lust tends be a concern.

So yes it is cultural and it is also not only a question about the person who is dressing, but also a question about the disposition of those who see or interact with that person.
 
I’d agree that modesty is partly up to culture. CS Lewis pointed it out all the way back in Mere Christianity: “Thus, while the rule of chastity is the same for all Christians at all times, the rule of propriety changes. A girl in the Pacific islands wearing hardly any clothes and a Victorian lady completely covered in clothes might both be equally ‘modest’, proper, or decent, according to the standards of their own societies: and both, for all we could tell by their dress, might be equally chaste (or equally unchaste).“

I think it’s less about the clothing then what passions (if any) it’s intended to incite. And that probably differs from culture to culture.
 
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Yep. Ankles incite men in some culture and a woman who shows her ankles would be condemned as a harlot. On the other hand, breasts don’t cause a stir at all in some tribal cultures.

Natural law would dictate that primary reproductive areas be covered. Beyond that I not comfortable making a definitive statement that isn’t culturally dependent.
 
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whatistrue said:
clclnn:
Let’s see:
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Yes, let’s. Interesting that they seem not to have heard of 2524, which was mentioned earlier in the thread, and supports the view that you are arguing against.
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I’ll just leave this here:

*2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a9.htm
 
Rozellelily said:
…
Therefor modesty standard is partly cultural-yes?
…
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It appears that the standard of civil law is not the same everywhere and involves what is physically revealed and also what is lewd.

But modesty is part of temperance and includes that which is not regulated by civil law. Modesty includes humility, studiousness, and external modesty in dress and general behavior. Modesty is in dress and bodily adornments such that a person avoids whatever is offensive to others and whatever is not necessary.
 
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