Modesty is partly cultural-true or false?

[ewohdrol]

These comments are infuriating.

Africa is a big place. With many countries. All with vastly different dress expectations. ‘African’ nuns are not a thing.

I’ve had the privilege of living in quite a few continents over the years. Due to this we’ve also travelled extensively and always attended church when able. I’ve very much enjoyed experiencing mass in different languages and seeing how different cultures do things.

There are HUGE cultural differences in both dress and respectful expectations between certain countries. We have been to mass where Vietnamese vendors have walked their motorbikes up the isle, Cambodian mass which was outdoors in a park where kids were off playing, mass where Zimbabwean women were quite scantily dress and very vocal in their praise, mass where Bolivian gaucho farmers have basically rocked up in their farming attire, and where we live now in Australia most people are in very relaxed beach attire. During our time in Europe was a mixed bag often depending on the socioeconomics of the area.

 

[stpurl]

I mean vulgar and pornographic statements including F bombs, the S word referring to excrement, witch with a capital B, as well as clothing–for 4 year old girls and even younger, mind you, with statements like, “I’m too sexy 4U so go (euphemism for pleasuring yourself)”.

Crass T-shirts and hats have gone from inuendo to vulgar to blasphemous and one dassen’t comment because, “Free Speech”.

 

[Rozellelily]

To be fair though,
(unless in a primitive culture where’s its view different)
I think a lot of people say breasts should be covered and not just Christians but also other religions and some people who don’t have faith beliefs.
For example,many office workers believe in the “conservative look” in the workplace.
Still, on the other hand there’s also a lot of women who show heaps of cleavage when going out.

 

[whatistrue]

I was responding to a blanket statement and trying to point out that such a statement does not have universal applicability, contrary to the position the poster appears to hold. Your parenthetical statement is what I am talking about, except that not all cultures who have no issue with uncovered female breasts in at least some public situations can fairly be described as primitive.

 

[Rozellelily]

for 4 year old girls and even younger, mind you, with statements like, “I’m too sexy 4U so go (euphemism for pleasuring yourself)”.

That’s shocking to me.Are the designers trying to promote “pedo culture”?
And why would a parent want their child to wear this?
Thankfully there doesn’t seem to be too much of a market in Australia for the crass/vulgar clothing that you mentioned amongst adults.There probably was a bit in the early 2000 but not so much today.

 

[Rozellelily]

except that not all cultures who have no issue with uncovered female breasts in at least some public situations can fairly be described as primitive.

Would the other circumstances be something like feminism?
I do not know if true,but I read for example that women in New York can walk topless because feminism wanted it equal man woman…

 

[whatistrue]

Would the other circumstances be something like feminism?

I wasn’t really thinking specifically about the Topfreedom movement, but that is part of it, at least as far as groups attempting to change laws. I was mostly thinking of developed nations (primarily European) where bare breasts are not illegal per se (at least on beaches and sometimes in other areas, and in a nonsexual context), such as Denmark, Greece, Italy, etc.

 

[Anicette]

These countries are part of the western world, and that’s doesn’t mean that, because topless for women in the beach may be allowed, that does not mean some individuals may not be confortable or angry to see that.
Breasta are seen as sexual in the western culture.
That being said Northern Europeans are famously more confortable with nudity in some public places than many others cultures, and being naked with strangers people is not always seen as a problem in itself. And naked breasts are not inherently a problem if it is for practical reasons.

 

[Rozellelily]

One side there are some middle eastern Muslims who cover even their face,other side there some feminist type who deny that even breast is sexual.:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I think most men will find breast sexual (except in concept of health or breastfeeding) and that is why I cover this but I have read there is some USA women who even say rules like dress should not be more than two fingers below collarbone?

 

[Jen7]

some feminist type who deny that even breast is sexual.

…some USA women who even say rules like dress should not be more than two fingers below collarbone?

I feel like those are the two extremes in the US. Most, vastly most, dress more “middle of the road.” I think it’s key in discussing a culture’s modesty to differentiate what most folks wear most of the time in that culture vs what some folks wear on unique occasions or in very specific locations. Wouldn’t you say most Americans consider “business” attire to cover all the key parts + show very little cleavage if any. And “casual” attire to be more relaxed - maybe shorts and a tank top in hot areas like where I live. But toplessness no way. Perhaps if you’re part of a demonstration, but that would still very much be someone making a strong (and to many, offensive) statement. The US I feel is more modest than this thread is making it sound. With the possible exception of the kids clothing with suggestive words on it. That breaks my heart.

 

[whatistrue]

Breasta are seen as sexual in the western culture.

There is no single monolithic Western Culture. And what should (or even must) be covered in public and with what exceptions for location, function, etc. is dependent on culture. That is entirely the point. As far as I am concerned, this equine is well and truly deceased so I will take no more swings.