Mohammed and Aisha

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didididi

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Hi everybody,

I just wanted to ask everyone about Mohammed and his marriage to Aisha. I really haven’t done much personal study into this area, but from what i’ve read (mainly on the internet) there seems to be conflicting opinions (her age at marriage etc).

Does anyone want to briefly retell the facts?

It’s just something that has been bugging me. I’ve read that she was 9 when he married and had sex with her, which really disturbs me. I really can’t understand how anybody could take this ‘man’ to be a Prophet, let alone the most important…but this then lead me to think that maybe there are accounts of biblical prophets with young wives… Are there any?

I’m sorry, I’m just writing informally/stream of conciousness. I hope I was clear…
 
actually Aisha was 6 when she was married/betrothed and 8 when the marriage was consummated
Mohammed is held by Mohammedans as the perfect example for mankind for all time
the Biblical prophets are not - they are just men used by God
their behaviour is not held up as an example
I take it you are a Muslim BTW? I recognize the modus operandi
 
I’m a young (well it’s all relative 😉 - 19) Catholic.

And I don’t understand what you wrote in latin but i think i get the gist.

I was just trying to be as open as possible. To me it’s such a disgusting thing, yet I haven’t heard it all that much in discussion between Christians and Muslims - only here and there…so that made me think that maybe some of ‘our’ prophets did similar things, hence why we don’t push the point that much.

By the way, how well documented is this marraige and it’s consumation? Would I get my head blown off (figuratively :|) for saying to a muslim that “Muhammed had sex with a 8 year old”? What do the sources they trust say?

I’m sorry for all my questions, i’m just curious.
 
didididi said:
I’m a young (well it’s all relative 😉 - 19) Catholic.

And I don’t understand what you wrote in latin but i think i get the gist.

I was just trying to be as open as possible. To me it’s such a disgusting thing, yet I haven’t heard it all that much in discussion between Christians and Muslims - only here and there…so that made me think that maybe some of ‘our’ prophets did similar things, hence why we don’t push the point that much.

By the way, how well documented is this marraige and it’s consumation? Would I get my head blown off (figuratively :|) for saying to a muslim that “Muhammed had sex with a 8 year old”? What do the sources they trust say?

I’m sorry for all my questions, i’m just curious.
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You would most likely get circular obfuscation.

The relationship is detailed in the Hadith which are Islamic sacred writings that are considered reliable, but are not considered to be the Word of God, as is the Koran.

There are many unpleasant and unsavory things detailed in the Hadith. Many muslims are ignorant of them. I don’t really understand how the ones who are not ignorant of them remain muslims, but they do.
 
didididi said:
I was just trying to be as open as possible. To me it’s such a disgusting thing, yet I haven’t heard it all that much in discussion between Christians and Muslims - only here and there…so that made me think that maybe some of ‘our’ prophets did similar things, hence why we don’t push the point that much.
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Any such matters are deemed ‘unconstructive’ by secularists, ‘insults’ by Moslems, and ‘hypocricy’ by relativists.
didididi said:
By the way, how well documented is this marraige and it’s consumation? Would I get my head blown off (figuratively :|) for saying to a muslim that “Muhammed had sex with a 8 year old”? What do the sources they trust say?

I’m sorry for all my questions, i’m just curious.
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It’s all well documented in their Hadith, which are second in importance to the Koran.

If you want to check this out yourself try the following site…

usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
e.g
In the search field type exactly

nine and years

and the results will be (showing volume/book/number)
004.053.358 005.058.234 005.058.236 007.062.064 007.062.065 007.062.088

The second of which is…
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234

More telling is the third result

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.236

Try the same words using different hadith collections for instance tick next to “Sahih Muslim”
 
eliasaph99 said:
You would most likely get circular obfuscation.

The relationship is detailed in the Hadith which are Islamic sacred writings that are considered reliable, but are not considered to be the Word of God, as is the Koran.

There are many unpleasant and unsavory things detailed in the Hadith. Many muslims are ignorant of them. I don’t really understand how the ones who are not ignorant of them remain muslims, but they do.
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Thank you.

I really don’t either. It’s very sad.

I met a muslim girl a year ago and she has become a very good friend of mine, and it’s very distressing. I just don’t know what to say to her, because I care for her so much but don’t want to hurt her feelings. I’m not sure if she knows of these hadiith and similar ones, but for now her superficial understanding of Christianity seems too absurd to her to be true. I feel inadequate to explain my own faith so i usually avoid discussion religion.

This is all irrelevant anyway, sorry. I have no idea why I wrote that but it is worrying for me. Slowly I hope to gain a better understanding of Catholocism so I can explain better things better to her.

Thank you.
 
Thank you, Montalban.

There is a 10 year old girl in the soccer team I coach and I am just …disgusted to think Mohammed could do such a thing to a girl even younger.

I’m really lost for words.
 
I see, you have a Muslim friend - that explains the wording of your enquiry. Muslims often quote the example of the Biblical prophets to justify Mohammed’s marriage to Aisha.
We know that Mohammed married Aisha whilst she was still playing with dolls. We know that the marriage was consummated just after Aisha had started having periods (menarche). The surprising thing is that many Muslims don’t even realise how young Aisha was!
They indulge in a circular logic, that because Mohammed is the perfect example (for all time not just the 7th century) therefore it must be OK. To this day the age of lawful sexual intercourse in Iran is 9. In Saudi Arabia sex at any age is permissible once the girl has started having periods (and is married [to a fat rich old man no doubt]). Many Muslims don’t seem to have a good understanding of human development and therefore don’t see that the mere fact of menstruation does not mean a girl is physically, mentally or emotionally ready for sex and pregnancy.
 
didididi said:
Thank you, Montalban.
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No problemo. It’s a great site for other searches you might want to do, and you can find all sorts of interesing hadith including one about Satan getting up people’s noses (literally)

e.g. I put

Satan and nose

in and got one result…
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.516

Try putting in exactly

horse and omen and evil

and with Sahih Bukhari ticked. See what you find out about women.
didididi said:
There is a 10 year old girl in the soccer team I coach and I am just …disgusted to think Mohammed could do such a thing to a girl even younger.

I’m really lost for words.
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The way they try to get around it is by declaring that at that age she’s actually a woman… so for them it’s not ‘child’ abuse.

However most Moslems I know aren’t even aware of this thing Muhammed did.

Tá Críosd ar éirigh!
Christ is risen
 
didididi said:
Thank you, Montalban.

There is a 10 year old girl in the soccer team I coach and I am just …disgusted to think Mohammed could do such a thing to a girl even younger.

I’m really lost for words.
Click to expand...
Further to what Jack Hawkins says above, be wary of those that state that Mary was the same age too, when she was married.
The ‘evidence’, such as it is is that she was 14 when she was engaged (not married; and 14’s not 9), and that the ‘evidence’ is a single unreliable source.

Tá Críosd ar éirigh!
Christ is risen
 
There are a couple of other threads that have discussed Aisha. Try searching for some of them. I think you’ll be surprised to find how people try to defend Mohammed’s “marriage” to a little girl.
 
didididi said:
Thank you.

I really don’t either. It’s very sad.

I met a muslim girl a year ago and she has become a very good friend of mine, and it’s very distressing. I just don’t know what to say to her, because I care for her so much but don’t want to hurt her feelings. I’m not sure if she knows of these hadiith and similar ones, but for now her superficial understanding of Christianity seems too absurd to her to be true. I feel inadequate to explain my own faith so i usually avoid discussion religion.

This is all irrelevant anyway, sorry. I have no idea why I wrote that but it is worrying for me. Slowly I hope to gain a better understanding of Catholocism so I can explain better things better to her.

Thank you.
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Perhaps you could share your views, so that you could learn more about Islam, the differing sects of Islam. It would give you great insight into what is happening in the world today, and you would be a bigger person for it. Learning goes both ways.
 
This “issue” was recently discussed in fairly great depth in the thread named Aisha.

Perhaps you can refer to it in order to gain a lot more insight into the matter.
 
hamba2han said:
This “issue” was recently discussed in fairly great depth in the thread named Aisha.

Perhaps you can refer to it in order to gain a lot more insight into the matter.
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I rarely use the Aisha argument because it has many cultural elements that should be considered, and more to the point it is sad to see the modern Muslim world justify such action soley because it is attributed to the messenger of god.

The character of Muhammad should be taken in a larger light, not just in relation to his many marriages, one of which was to a nearly, if not so, pre-pubesent girl. Another was to his adoptive son’s wife- somethign unheard of in pre-Islam Arabia. He had to have a “revelation” to allow the social taboo be permitted and accepted by the early Muslims, as well as one to allow him to marry more than the 4 alloted to all other Muslims.

The adoptive son- a slave given to him by his first wife when the slave was a young boy. Adopted by Muhammad when the boy accepted Islam- refusing to return with his natural father when his natural father found him. That son then married a woman who soon, Muhammed took a fancy to. She eventually divorced him, rather told him to divorce her because she too wanted to be with Mohammad.

What is so upright about Mohammed that deserves such adoration?

Did he have his detractors assinated?- Yes.
Did he rob caravans to feed and pay his followers?- Yes
Did he require 20% of all war booty if fighting took place, and 100% of the booty if fighting did not take place (meaning the enemy gave up without a fight)?- Yes
Did he say that during his Night Journey that when he looked into hell it was full of mostly women?- Yes
Did he say women are deficient in religion?- Yes
Did he say it takes two women to equal one man in a legal court?- Yes

Muhammed may have been sincere initially in his search for God, but after the visitation of the demon in the cave- imo the same demon who tempted Christ in the desert- Mohammad clearly became an opportunist, and sadly has led many people astray since.
 
When I was in history class I remember reading that at the first “menstruation” families would start looking for a suitor.
I remember reading this in a history about Rome , it was about the time in the catholic church… the book “Venus” talks about this. Is their any history majors that can give their advice on the marriage age? (with documentation of course).
 
Jedda said:
When I was in history class I remember reading that at the first “menstruation” families would start looking for a suitor.
I remember reading this in a history about Rome , it was about the time in the catholic church… the book “Venus” talks about this. Is their any history majors that can give their advice on the marriage age? (with documentation of course).
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totally irrelevant to the thread, to be honest:thumbsup:
tu quoque is not a logical argument
 
Jedda said:
When I was in history class I remember reading that at the first “menstruation” families would start looking for a suitor.
I remember reading this in a history about Rome , it was about the time in the catholic church… the book “Venus” talks about this. Is their any history majors that can give their advice on the marriage age? (with documentation of course).
Click to expand...
Even if this were true, “looking for a suitor” does not indicate when they planned to have the couple betrothed, much less consummate the marriage. More specific information on this would be needed.
 
Well “I” don’t feel its irrelevant, it tells of the mindset of the people of that time. AND that is not irrelevant. 😉 You really cannot judge one man if the rest of society thought it was normal. Deeper digging must be done in order to “judge” his intentions.
 
Jedda said:
Well “I” don’t feel its irrelevant, it tells of the mindset of the people of that time. AND that is not irrelevant. 😉 You really cannot judge one man if the rest of society thought it was normal. Deeper digging must be done in order to “judge” his intentions.
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If that one man is being held up as the perfect example for mankind for all time, then yes you must judge him. How much do you know about Islam and Mohammed???
 
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