Mohammed / What our Catholic School is teaching.

[rinnie]

In all fairness let me say this. My best friend sent her daughter to the Catholic School. Now personally I feel that she was confusing the kid. But she claims it was for the Education not the Religion.

Now I will say one thing personally that I learned. I went to a Catholic School for 8 years. They closed the High School.

Now what I learned was in a Catholic School if you did not understand something you were taught it until you did. Extra time was taken out. Either after school or recess etc.

Now in a public school it was like who cares. You either passed or failed or got by. If you didn’t get it in the Catholic school they knew it, and made sure you did.

Now that was many years ago I agree. But there was the more of one on one time and as I can see from my friends child there still was. They closed the school 3 years ago. My friend said there is a big difference and more homework in the Protestant school.

In the CS she claims they did more in the classroom. Now she claims its for the parents to do:shrug: I don’t know. I am only saying what she told me.

SHe felt that the education was much better:shrug: Personally I do not see where my kids are not as educated in Math etc as I was. It seemed to be the same. ANd they did not go to the CS. But I will say the CCD could never compare to the Catholic Religion class.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

An alternate definition of prophet is “The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause”. The person leading a movement who is divinely inspired is the common def. we think of, but maybe the teacher was meaning the other definition? I don’t know for sure, but at a Catholic school, I can’t imagine teaching that his “divine inspiration” was real.

 

[Bezant]

With all due respect to the OP and what she is paying for a “Catholic education”, it is most people’s experience that it would barely qualify as “Catholic”.

Well, when I hear of a Catholic school teaching Muhammed as the Last Prophet according to Catholic doctrine, I’m more likely to suspect that the opening poster was mistaken, and not the school.

In any case, how do you qualify a decent Catholic education on behalf of “most people’s experience”? Excuse me, my Catholic education was quite good.

At my parish (FSSP), most parents homeschool. Some of the parents send their children to a small independent Catholic school where it’s about half SSPX families and half FSSP families and they also have a homeschooling co-op program for homeschool kids to come in once a week. I don’t know anyone who sends their children to Catholic school or public school (not to say that there aren’t any, I just haven’t met them – homeschoolers are the overwhelming majority).

It’s fine to teach children to be nice to Muslims while at the same time teaching them that Islam is a wicked religion from Hell intent on destroying and/or enslaving us.

No, it’s not. It’s not only a lie, but also disingenuous.

None of the Muslims I have met have tried to cut off my head and they all have seemed like decent people, but I also know that there is a 1500 year history that can’t be ignored and around the world, Muslims are still slaughtering Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) by the hundreds.

You are either dreadfully ignorant of the violence and suppression Christians wrought against each other and non-Christians, or you are willfully ignorant.

Islam uses a vague idea of God to justify many very bad things.

None of your statements as fact stand as such until you research and present veritable Islamic sources to make you case.

If you’re going to plagarise, you might as well do it from a credible source and not St Thomas (not a credible authority on Islam) or Belloc (did you know he expressed anti-Semitic views?).

 

[Bezant]

LOL! Well if Jesus wasn’t crucified HE could rise!

The crucifixion denial is the easiest one to point out.- even historians know Jesus was crucified. It doesn’t take a Christian believer or Scripture to point to the fact that Jesus was in deed crucified.

The Quran does not present itself as a history textbook.

Not all historians believe that Jesus even existed.

Islam is very anti religion-everyone one’s but the Muslim’s.

In what way? Because Islam disagrees with everyone else’s religion, and thinks it’s the right religion?

Yawn…

Even then fellow Muslims are killed for not being Muslim enough.

Which is the result of the evils of fanaticism.

Actually if you were to study Islam you would see there is very little moral teaching and theology in Islam - Quran or hadith. Look at the long lists of atributes/names of allah given in the Quran.

Actually, I happen to know quite a lot about Islam, since it’s my focus of study and I live in an area with a decent Muslim minority.

You’re going to have to try a little harder than what’s plainly BSing.

 

[schaick]

I said, I put religion in quotes because it is more of an ideology like communism with an allah attached to it

LOL!!!

Did I say Islam was like communism? NO, but that Islam is an ideology, not just a religion.

That being said there are commonalities:
Did/does communism/Islam purport all to be egual?
Did/does communism/Islam wish to tear down capitalism?
Did/does communism/Islam wish to tear down democracies?
Did/does communism/Islam say you are guilty until proven innocent?

The biggy:
Did/does comunism/Islam believe man can not govern themselves?

etc.

People please read up onIslam, sharia law, hadith and the Quran.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Well, when I hear of a Catholic school teaching Muhammed as the Last Prophet according to Catholic doctrine, I’m more likely to suspect that the opening poster was mistaken, and not the school.

Probably.

In any case, how do you qualify a decent Catholic education on behalf of “most people’s experience”? Excuse me, my Catholic education was quite good.

Okay. My concern is only how orthodox most Catholic schools in the US have been since since the 1960s. Perhaps you hit a good one, I’m not saying there are no decent Catholic schools, I’m just saying that just because it says “Catholic” on the signpost, don’t assume it’s actually Catholic. Make sure you know what they are teaching, not only in Religion class but also in History and Social Studies.

No, it’s not. It’s not only a lie, but also disingenuous.

So, we should not be nice to Muslims? I think we should treat them as misguided individuals first before cutting off their heads…

You are either dreadfully ignorant of the violence and suppression Christians wrought against each other and non-Christians, or you are willfully ignorant.

I’m sure everyone agrees that the Sack of Constantinople was a great tragedy and shame (although no one ever talks about the Massacre of the Latins which preceded it). But the issue at hand is the Muslims.

None of your statements as fact stand as such until you research and present veritable Islamic sources to make you case.

Are you an apologist for the Moslems now?

If you’re going to plagarise

Plagiarize - “To use, and pass off as one’s own, someone else’s writing/speech.”

Quoting a work with attribution is hardly plagiary.

you might as well do it from a credible source and not St Thomas (not a credible authority on Islam)

He knows Averroes, one of the better Islamic philosophers.

or Belloc (did you know he expressed anti-Semitic views?).

Oh, everybody’s called “anti-Semetic”, what does that have to do with anything? Our concern in this thread is with the Muslims, not the Jews. The Jewish Question should be left for another thread.

 

[schaick]

The Quran does not present itself as a history textbook.

According to many muslims revelations were given to Mohammad around historical events.

Not all historians believe that Jesus even existed.

Actually I was thinking about historians of Jesus’ day. LOL! There are historians of today that don’t believe Mohammad lived. Some believe he was a compilation of many.

In what way? Because Islam disagrees with everyone else’s religion, and thinks it’s the right religion?

Yawn…

Yes all religious people have been evil in actions but it is Islam that condones and orders the muslim to fight, kill and subdue the non-muslims.

Which is the result of the evils of fanaticism.

Actually, I happen to know quite a lot about Islam, since it’s my focus of study and I live in an area with a decent Muslim minority.

You’re going to have to try a little harder than what’s plainly BSing.

Now there is the point- Muslim minority. Get back with us when they have increased in number a bit. Which is by the way also a teaching of Mohammad’s- lay low until your numbers increase.

 

[schaick]

Of course all religions do in moral issues.

**In Islam it is the fellow muslim/imam that governs your every move **when and how you pray, what paryers you say, how you dress, what you eat, what hand you shake hands with, who you can smile and say hellow to, what hand you clean yourself with after deficating, etc.

AND it dictates to the non-muslim for example:

The Status of Non-Muslims Under Muslim Rule
After the rapid expansion of the Muslim dominion in the 7th century, Muslims leaders were required to work out a way of dealing with Non-Muslims, who remained in the majority in many areas for centuries. The solution was to develop the notion of the “dhimma”, or “protected person”. The Dhimmi were required to pay an extra tax, but usually they were unmolested. This compares well with the treatment meted out to non-Christians in Christian Europe. The Pact of Umar is supposed to have been the peace accord offered by the Caliph Umar to the Christians of Syria, a “pact” which formed the patter of later interaction.

We heard from 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam [died 78/697] as follows: When Umar ibn al-Khattab, may God be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows:

In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.

We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.

We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.

We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.

We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.

We shall not sell fermented drinks.

We shall clip the fronts of our heads.

We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists

We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.

We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims.

We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.

(When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, “We shall not strike a Muslim.”)

We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.

If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.

Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: “They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims,” and “Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.”

 

[Bezant]

Okay. My concern is only how orthodox most Catholic schools in the US have been since since the 1960s. Perhaps you hit a good one, I’m not saying there are no decent Catholic schools, I’m just saying that just because it says “Catholic” on the signpost, don’t assume it’s actually Catholic. Make sure you know what they are teaching, not only in Religion class but also in History and Social Studies.

I don’t follow; what problems are there with History and Social Studies in American Catholic schools?

So, we should not be nice to Muslims?

I think it insulting to “be nice to” someone while linking him to violent barbarianism, of which he is not in any way involved (and of which he may in fact be a target).

I think we should treat them as misguided individuals first before cutting off their heads…

The entire human race is misguided.

I’m sure everyone agrees that the Sack of Constantinople was a great tragedy and shame (although no one ever talks about the Massacre of the Latins which preceded it).

But the issue at hand is the Muslims.

OK, the issue at hand is the Muslims, and not the Tamil Tigers, nor the ETA, nor the BNP, nor the NPA, nor the FARC-EP, nor the Yardie gangs, nor Tottenham Mandem, Hackney Boys, nor the Bloods, nor the Crips…

Are you an apologist for the Moslems now?

Do you have a problem with that?

I know enough about Islam that I can draw reasonable criticism backed up with credible evidence from Islamic sources.

Plagiarize - “To use, and pass off as one’s own, someone else’s writing/speech.”
Quoting a work with attribution is hardly plagiary.

My use of language was questionable but my criticism is correct. Just because someone else says something doesn’t mean they have a lick of what they’re talking about.

Neither St. Thomas or Belloc are credible academics on Islam. They are far from balanced.

Oh, everybody’s called “anti-Semetic”, what does that have to do with anything? Our concern in this thread is with the Muslims, not the Jews. The Jewish Question should be left for another thread.

Fair enough, though when I judge a source, and I suspect they’ve any sort of fanatical view, I deem it less credible. Why should a Catholic anti-Semite present a balanced view of a non-Catholic faith?

 

[Bezant]

According to many muslims revelations were given to Mohammad around historical events.

That’s true. But the Quran is not presented as a history book.

Actually I was thinking about historians of Jesus’ day. LOL! There are historians of today that don’t believe Mohammad lived. Some believe he was a compilation of many.

I’m not aware of that.

Yes all religious people have been evil in actions but it is Islam that condones and orders the muslim to fight, kill and subdue the non-muslims.

Take your own advice, do some reading, because I’ve done mine and continue to do so.

Now there is the point- Muslim minority. Get back with us when they have increased in number a bit. Which is by the way also a teaching of Mohammad’s- lay low until your numbers increase.

You’re BSing.

 

[Bezant]

Yes

 

[catechizeme]

any update on the discussion with the teacher?

Yes - it went very well. Our exchange had to be through email, but she was very nice and understanding. She apologized and said she didn’t mean to teach or imply anything against the Catholic faith and she would clarify her comments to the kids so they wouldn’t be confused. She was trying to teach this from a ‘secular perspective’ but realizes now that was not appropriate in a Catholic school - apparently another teacher clarified to her that she needs to teach from a Catholic perspective, and this teacher was very supportive of my concern, which I appreciated. It’s nice to have teachers who are willing to discuss concerns in a nice way - it worked out well.

 

[Juliebug108]

I can’t give u documentation but **Jesus to Catholics was the last and final prophet.**Revelation has been completed.Apparitions of course aren’t considered prophets.That’s strange that your child’s teacher is teaching that.We follow no teachings of the koran.Are you sure your child isn’t confused ?This teacher is a Catholic i presume.

This is a little off topic, but I just want some clarity because I am trying to learn more about the CC in my journey to conversion. I thought that the CC taught that St. Faustina was a prophet so to speak? Am I misunderstanding her role? Also, what about the revelation to John?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ashurie]

I’ve bolded the above in black font for your attention:

Your statement is incorrect.

Muslims/islam believes that Jesus will return for final judgement day.

They believe Jesus will destroy Christianity - Break the Cross - Kill the Swine - Get rid of the tax…

And make islam the only religion on the planet.

They also believe after Jesus accomplishes this, he will live on earth for 40 years, get married and then die.

Right…I honestly do not believe what you just said. To me it just seems to be a statement or belief that is filled by hate from either or both sides.

 

[jakasaki]

Right…I honestly do not believe what you just said. To me it just seems to be a statement or belief that is filled by hate from either or both sides.

It’s in their hadiths… but it matters not… ask ANY muslim what Isa will do on the day of judgement…

---

Book 37, Number 4310:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said:

There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him).

**He will descent (to the earth). **

When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet.

**He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. **
**
He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. **

**Allah will perish all religions except Islam. **
**
He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. **

**The Muslims will pray over him. **

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 37:
Battles (Kitab Al-Malahim)

 

[MontChevalier]

Right…I honestly do not believe what you just said. To me it just seems to be a statement or belief that is filled by hate from either or both sides.

Do you need a link too?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Last_Judgment#Comparison_with_Christianity

islam-guide.com/ch3-5.htm

islamreligion.com/category/125/

hilalplaza.com/islam/day-of-judgment.html

I’ve got more.

-MontChevalier

 

[swariffin]

I asked on the “Ask the Apologist” forum but really would like some info tonight.
My child’s Catholic School (jr. high) is teaching that Mohammed was the last prophet - not just the “prophet of Islam”, but a real prophet like John the Baptist, etc.

Can someone point me to some documentation that explains what Christians/Catholics believe about Mohammed?

Don’t bother, because it is none.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

Could you please elaborate on the “folk devil of choice in the US and other parts …” ? Is this your attempt at revisionist history ? After the failed 1968 uprising in the former Czechoslvakia , I had several refugees from this country live with me in my parents’ home ( I was a teenager ) as well as in my grandmother’s home . One thing I learned from them is that Communism is EVIL , and I don’t mean evil down to it’s DNA but down to the sub-atomic particles that comprise it’s DNA !
How familiar are you with the Black Book Of Communism , or with Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s ( sp. ? ) lecture at Harvard ?
Obviosly an ideology that is respobsible for the murder of over 100 million people in less than 100 years qualifies as only " a folk devil of choice " in your world , So enlighten this poor, benighted Yank and tell me who/what are the real devils we should have concerned ourselves with ?

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

[No message]

 

[ClamDigger]

I asked on the “Ask the Apologist” forum but really would like some info tonight.
My child’s Catholic School (jr. high) is teaching that Mohammed was the last prophet - not just the “prophet of Islam”, but a real prophet like John the Baptist, etc.

Can someone point me to some documentation that explains what Christians/Catholics believe about Mohammed?

Oh my. This is definitely NOT Church teaching. Muhammad denied the divinity of Christ, his atoning death, and the doctrine of the Trinity.
I’m all for acceptance of Muslims and interfaith dialogue, but this is going way too far.