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sedonaman
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“An unindicted co-conspirator in the terror-finance trial against the Holy Land Foundation and its former officials.”
Read more at: investigativeproject.org/1854/doj-cairs-unindicted-co-conspirator-status-legit
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Read more at: investigativeproject.org/1854/doj-cairs-unindicted-co-conspirator-status-legit
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sedonaman
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Yes. Political correctness has been introduced into all schools, even Catholic ones. And what is political correctness? A crusade to ignorance characterized by the rejection of truth that conflicts with ideology.
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Mickey
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Well said my friend…well said. :clapping:
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sedonaman
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wisdomseeker
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Well said my friend. Finally someone who can speak the Truth and defend the Church in an appropriate manner. Most people are afraid to affirm who the Church is and her mission. The reason is because they are afraid of persecution and lose friendship.
St Paul has spoken very clear about cowards who cannot defend the Truth. I just hope that more Catholics will show up to defend this Holy Faith given to us by our Lord. We don’t need to degrade any other religion just speak the Truth and do not coward and hide the Truth of our Faith. We don’t need to mix this Holy Faith with false beliefs like so many have done. We need to stand our ground and defend the Church against any false belief out there.
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perro_sarnoso
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As far as some of the answers on this forum - some are pretty technical and deep while others are simple but murky.
Stick to the Sound Doctrine of Jesus Christ. St. John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament Prophets and the First of the New Testament. He alone - not Mohammad.
Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God - come in the flesh - resurrected - ascended into heaven and is to come again in glory. Not Mohammad. Mohammad will stand before the throne of God with all of us to recieve judgment from Jesus Christ.
The words of Jesus Christ are life and truth - always! Not so for Mohammad.
Keep it simple.
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sedonaman
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Mohammed said, “I found the way.” Joseph Smith said, “I found the way.” ______________ [fill in name] said, “I found the way.” Jesus said, “I AM the way.”
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MontChevalier
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There is one question that needs to be asked, however:
If Islam is wrong, why would God allow its creation? Certainly a divine being as Our Lord and Father would know better than to create something which would bring untold catastrophes, non?
This perhaps needs to be examined. The purpose of Islam in God’s plan and whether or not Islam truly is evil. After all, Saint Thomas Aquinas often gave many words On evil; the title of his book is coincidentally called “On Evil”.
-MontChevalier
If Islam is wrong, why would God allow its creation? Certainly a divine being as Our Lord and Father would know better than to create something which would bring untold catastrophes, non?
This perhaps needs to be examined. The purpose of Islam in God’s plan and whether or not Islam truly is evil. After all, Saint Thomas Aquinas often gave many words On evil; the title of his book is coincidentally called “On Evil”.
-MontChevalier
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valentino
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The devil is still operating in the world.God still gives Him free reign to decieve.Most people of the Islam faith don’t believe in Jihad and world domination.
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Portrait
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Dear valentino,
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
We should be under no illusions respecting Islam, for it is a missionary religion just like Christianity and thus is likewise intent on making converts. Moreover, the employment of violence towards this end cannot be completely ruled out and is, indeed, supported by the Koran itself; the attitude of Islam using violence against non-muslims is quite unequivocal. Regarding pagans, the Koran says, “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful” (Surah 9: 5). This is tantamount to giving a convert or die option. Regarding violence against Jews and Christians, the Koran states, "Fight against those to whom the Scriptures were as believe in neither God or the last day, who do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden, and who do not embrace the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued (Surah 9: 29). In other words, violence is to be used against Jews and Christians unless they are willing to pay a special tax and live in subjection to muslims as inferior citizens. For them the choice is convert, die, or live in subjection. Moreover, there is the promise of reward in the next world for waging jihad in the present one: "Believers! shall I point out to you a profitable course that will save you from woeful scourge? Have faith in God and his messenger, and fight for God’s cause with your wealth and with your persons…He will forgive you your sins and admit you to the gardens watered by running streams; he will lodge you in pleasant mansions in the gardens of Eden. This is the supreme triumph (Surah 61: 10-12). The language of these passages is surely quite unambiguous.
Of course there are men of peace and men of violence in all religions; there are violent Christians and there are peace loving muslims. Changing historical circumstances do much to evoke tendencies toward violence and peace among the followers of the different world religions. Nevertheless, even when allowance has been made for these qualifications, it is perfectly clear that Islam as a religion and an ideology has by far the greatest proclivity towards violence, as is manifestly obvious from recent tragic events.
Some will respond by way of reply and say that this understanding of Islam is not consonant with the Islamic moderation of the modern world and the wish of everyday Muslims to lead a quiet and peacable life. However, the willingness of moderates to be what are objectively bad Muslims, because they reject the teachings of historical Islam, may be laudable in human terms, but does nothing whatsoever to modify Islam as a doctrine. What you are really dealing with here is conservative Islam versus progressive Islam and it is our arbitrary subjective opinion to declare that the progressive one is correct, whilst the conservative one is wrong and extreme. The question that must be asked and answered is: is the conservative standpoint representative of orthodox historical Islam? If so, then the progressives are merely liberals who have abandoned the traditional Islamic faith. It is really quite that simple. Indeed, there is an analogy here with liberal Christianity which never tires of asserting that the orthodox and conservative approach is no longer representative of how most Christians now understand their faith in the modern world. Nevertheless, we firmly believe and truly, that what is termed ‘conservative orthodoxy’ is indeed synonymous with the authentic historical Christian faith.
In any event the prospect of modifying Islam’s doctrine of violence is problematic. Whilst it is quite true that some Muslims throughout history have sought to ‘spiritualize’ the Koran’s declarations respecting violence, this has always been counteracted by the conservative push to return to the sources of Islam and again interpret them literally. Thus it all boils down to the elucidation of texts and that is, of course, a highly subjective exercise. Again, who are we to say that this conservative movement and approach within in Islam is unrepresentative and unauthentic and should therefore be dismissed as extremism?
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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JenniferB
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As a former teacher, I couldn’t agree more.It could possibly dispel any fear that Islam that may have, it is also quite healthy to be both taught their own faith along with other faiths - and I am taking this in a teacher’s POV (being a student-teacher) - because then they would be able go out after graduation and not be afraid of people just because of their religion, or meet and befriend people of other faiths, learn from them on how they follow their faith and vice versa.
At my University there is a obvious Islamic presence (with a equally Christian presence too), but I have befriended a few Islamic girls and we have discussed to the differences in our faiths. And I remember the times before 11 Sept, and the whole Islamic terrorist stuff, so it doesn’t affect me as much, as a much younger person would, who would have been bombarded that Islamic people are terrorists, no thanks to the media, government etc. They would be too afraid to even talk to them.
I am only putting that idea out there
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Portrait
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Dear wisdomseeker,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your kind words respecting my post. Yes, it is imperative that we do “stand our ground and defend the Church against any false belief”, especially in the multi-faith and pluralistic times in which our lot is cast today.
It is surely a very spurious charity indeed that engages Islam in insipid irenic dialogue without ever making clear the need and necessity for conversion - a need which extends to the whole of mankind. Everyone without exception needs Christ and the healing balm of the Gospel, be they Jews, Muslims or avowed atheists, thus what sort of warped charity would wish to deprive any man of the means of salvation?
If Holy Mother Church is not to give an uncertain sound on the trumpet, to use the Pauline metaphor, then she must needs boldly proclaim that Islam is wrong and Christ and the Church are right, that Islam is a false religion whilst Christianity alone is the truth. As Catholics we unashamedly believe that our Divine Lord is the Way, for if it were not so our profession would be worth nothing. The plain fact is that Muslims, like other men, need to be reconciled to Christ and His Church and if there is any obfuscation concerning this urgent need, then we are guilty of unfaithfulness to our missionary mandate (S. Matt. 28: 18-20). As someone once amusingly remarked, there is an impelling ‘go’ in the word GOspel. Muslims are in no less need of the lamp of grace than the rest of mankind and this truth must be taught without equivocation to the children in our Catholic schools.
Alas, many modern Catholics have apparently fallen into the modernist heresy of ecumenical dialogue, which erroneously teaches that religious dogmas are not absolute or irreformable, but are continually changing and in a state of flux. Thus it is hardly surprising that many have deluded themselves into thinking that religious reconciliation cannot be reduced to a ‘static’ formula of simple conversion for Muslims or others to the One true Church founded by Christ upon St. Peter. In its misguided thinking, the modern ecumenical apparatchik somehow imagines a sort of shared spiritual journey, in which the religious sentiment common to mankind comes to its full realization in some new dispensation that is the exclusive possession of no single group. Naturally, this ‘indifferentist ecumenecism’ is always offended by and contemptously dismisses as simplistic any exclusive claims for Christ and the Church. However, it is of vital importance that the Church does not convey the impression to those outside its bosom that one religion is as good as another. This is a grave heresy and ought to be resisted by the faithful.
The claim made by all of the worlds religions, is to bring a true message about the universe and the powers behind it, and to show the way of adjustment, not merely to oneself, but to the entire cosmic environment. However, the fact must be squarely faced that the messages are at variance, thus one is forced to choose between them, for not more than one of them can be true. Therefore Kipling’s sentiment, “Many roads Thou hast fashioned; all of them lead to the light”, is simply an untrue delusion.
If the teaching of every religion is basicly true and acceptable to God, then why be a Catholic at all, which is the most severe and rigid of all? Without in any wishing sound uncharitable or disrespectful towards other religions, my fear is that modern day ecumenical dialogue is seriously imperilling the Gospel of Christ and its exclusive claims for the submission and allegiance of men, thus frustrating its free proclamation to all people’s in accordance with our Lord’s Great Commission.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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sedonaman
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Portrait
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Dear sedonaman,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for registering your concurrence with my posts, dear friend. Your support is much appreciated.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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MontChevalier
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Bonjour,
I agree with what you say, being a fan of St. Thomas Aquinas myself. I wonder, however, why Pope Benedict XVI continues to encourage religious dialogue between Muslims and Catholics? Don’t both sides already hate each other?
Maybe hate might be too strong a word, more like dislike each other, due to the last millenia and some hundred years of forcing Islam on Catholics.
The Pope’s policy on Islam, looking over the article, does, indeed, and without doubt, bring me mixed messages. On the one hand, we have Eastern Catholics openly being stoned, raped, murdered, etc etc, and on the other, we have the Pope trying to encourage Catholics to side with Islam. Now, I mean no disrespect towards his holiness and his policies, but, it does seem that what he’s working for; in the case for Islam and Catholic relations, seems to have little success.
The article mentioned above:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_and_Islam
I know a few people in Pakistan, good, well-seasoned Catholics, who’ve lost family, friends, hell, even churches themselves, because of some radicalist muslims. Now, it’s hard to say, “Talk with them”[the Muslims], when there seems to be so much going on.
If the Church wants to assert that it is the way, in which I agree, it’s going to have to put a stronger hold on it’s claim. Like keeping the priests in line, ensuring there aren’t any issues which might cause people to do things non-catholic-like.
These are merely some of the issues within Catholicism. Islam is something else altogether. And we need to really consider, on a philosophical level what and where Islam belongs.
At least, this is what I think.
Bonsoir.
-MontChevalier
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paddygwant
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Very well said! Islam indeed is an ideology. And a very sensitive one because if you say that to a muslim, prepare for an (ill educated, “if I don’t agree/can’t argue, I’ll change the subject”) argument.
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paddygwant
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@chuckfrmvalyfrg - are you a muslim yourself? Whatever you are, you are being very unpleasant!
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sedonaman
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There are several problems as I see the situation. First, these discussions all confuse Islam with Muslims. Second, Islam refuses to accord other religions what it demands for itself, and consequently, third, dialog means Muslims complain and everyone else listens.
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Portrait
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Dear Bonsoir,
Cordial greetings and bonjour, mon ami. Thankyou for your response to my post and apologies for the delay in my reply.
Whilst it is good to adopt, where at all possible, a concilliatory approach by indicating the various points of contact between Islam and Catholicism, this must never blind us to the fact that there are insuperable obstacles that preclude any meaningful dialogue and therefore progress. Many of the discussions between the two religions seem to be very one-sided affairs, as Sedonaman has observed, with the platform being given to Islam to ventilate its greviances against Catholicism. This is surely an utterly fruitless exercise and the sort of ecumenical acitivity that is eminently forgettable and risible. Authentic historical Christianity understands itself as the absolute religion, intended for all men, which cannot recognise any other religion beside itself as of equal right. The centrality and finality of Christ must always be preserved and it must be maintained that other religions, irrespective of any merits, are not salvific.
In all our ecumenical talks we must also beware of granting honorary Christian citizenship (‘anonymous Christian’ status, to use Karl Rhaner’s phraseology) to those who have not requested it, and who have, in some instances, positively resisted it (as is true of both Muslims and Jews), for this savours of sheer imperialism. One can just imagine what the Christian reaction would be if we were told by the ardent representatives of Islam, that we are in fact ‘anonymous Muslims’.
The world’s religions are not kindly debating societies, but as those who have lived among them for any period of time will tell you, they are a morass of superstition, ignorance, exploitation, oppression and fear. The fact is that religions do not prepare their adherents for the revelation of Christ. Paradoxically, the closer any religion stands to Christianity, so higher is the barrier erected by it between its own adherents and the Christian Gospel. If salvation is to be found by the adherents of these religions, it may well be found while they are still in them, but it will be found not because of them, but in spite of them.
Whatever may said respecting interreligious dialogue, it must always be pointed out that to proclaim the name of Jesus and to invite men to embrace the Gospel, is a sacred and mandatory duty which the Church cannot and must not neglect. Indeed, any Evangelism worthy of the name would be incomplete without such an invitation to men, for the very purpose of evangelisation is to make Christians of those who are evangelised. The proclamation and dissemination of the Gospel is wholly about men becoming Catholics, entering Holy Mother Church and abandoning their false religions. The Catholic Church alone speaks with the authority of its Divine Founder and is in possession of the totality of His revelation to mankind. So, yes, the Church must boldly assert always that Christ alone is the Way and beware that the viruses of ecumenical dialogue do not paralyze the missionary labours of the Church, thus leaving the adherents of other religions confirmed in their errors and superstitions. Whatever dialogue we engage in, there must always be a ‘call to Islam’ and other dissidents to forsake their errors and submit to the claims of Christ and His Church.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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