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Verisimilitude
Guest
The Qur’an is accepted by Muslims to be the literal and final word of God.
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inJESUS
Guest
Muslims say it was Gabriel. The Quran says:
He sendeth down the ANGELS with the **Spirit **of His command unto whom He will of His bondmen, (saying): Warn mankind that there is no God save Me, so keep your duty unto Me. S. 16:2
They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: “The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)” S. 17:85
Muslims say the Spirit is an angel called Gabriel, though i do not get why Muhammad differentiated between angels and the Spirit if the spirit is an angel and why he denies knowing the Spirit if it were Gabriel…anyway, Muslims believe it was Gabriel.
The Bible prophecised the spirit is not Gabriel.
He sendeth down the ANGELS with the **Spirit **of His command unto whom He will of His bondmen, (saying): Warn mankind that there is no God save Me, so keep your duty unto Me. S. 16:2
They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: “The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)” S. 17:85
Muslims say the Spirit is an angel called Gabriel, though i do not get why Muhammad differentiated between angels and the Spirit if the spirit is an angel and why he denies knowing the Spirit if it were Gabriel…anyway, Muslims believe it was Gabriel.
The Bible prophecised the spirit is not Gabriel.
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tomshaikh
Guest
See it here you will know who? I will prefere you to see all parts from you tube. This is part 2 below:
youtube.com/watch?v=cfWEbxeCO5w&feature=related
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A_dollars_worth
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Hi, at 4:20 the person speaking said Mohammed says the spirit said “I am Gabriel” after seeing him every where he turned his head. Is that in the Qur’an or hadith? I could not find it.
Right near the end of part 2 the person nodded his head to admit he was there with Mohammed and witnessed the revelation. Is that in the Qur’an or hadith? I could not find that either.
It is still not clear who visited Mohammed. I like the movie so far. Thanks.
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Sam_777
Guest
According to how Quran was revealed by an angel to Muhammad from this hadith:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
“…The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones…”
(E) (A).
Why that violence, force, and fearness that accompanied that incident, I would wonder, why a heavenly angel would use such force with us human-beings, and how the fear shocked Muhammad even after going back home.
But that wasn’t the case when God The Most High spoke with Moses through the burning bush (Exodus 2:3), and how angel Gabriel spoke with Mary:
“26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” 29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.” 34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.” 38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.” (Luke 1:26-38).
Did angel Gabriel press Mary hard when she asked him the question, or he used normal words to explain her everything.:angel1:
After reading the above, and linking that to all the contradictions between Islam & previous religions, it seems to me that Satan pretended to be angel Gabriel and revealed the Quran to Muhammad.
:doh2:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
“…The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones…”
(E) (A).
Why that violence, force, and fearness that accompanied that incident, I would wonder, why a heavenly angel would use such force with us human-beings, and how the fear shocked Muhammad even after going back home.
But that wasn’t the case when God The Most High spoke with Moses through the burning bush (Exodus 2:3), and how angel Gabriel spoke with Mary:
“26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” 29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.” 34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.” 38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.” (Luke 1:26-38).
Did angel Gabriel press Mary hard when she asked him the question, or he used normal words to explain her everything.:angel1:
After reading the above, and linking that to all the contradictions between Islam & previous religions, it seems to me that Satan pretended to be angel Gabriel and revealed the Quran to Muhammad.
:doh2:
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inJESUS
Guest
that’s what Muhammad thought until Waraqa told him it must be an angel.it seems to me that Satan pretended to be angel Gabriel and revealed the Quran to Muhammad.
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Rayaan
Guest
Wow such a fair question on a Christian Board…
What next are you going to a KKK Neo Nazi board and ask them if Black People are good.
What next are you going to a KKK Neo Nazi board and ask them if Black People are good.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Mahomet was deceived not even by Satan, but an inferior demon.
I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Sacred Scripture foretold about the deception of the evil one who comes as an angel of lite, not to mention these are to be accursed if they bring another gospel other than the one that was given to us by Jesus and his apostles, even if they the apostles themselves should bring another gospel are to be accursed.
The following applies to both Islam and Mormonism:
Galatians 1:6-9 I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel, not that there is another. But ther are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if WE or an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN SHOULD PREACH TO YOU: a gospel other than the one that we preached to you; LET THAT ONE BE ACCURSED!
vs.9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone PREACHES to you a gOSPEL other than the one that you recieved, let that one be accursed!
So the apostle announces before hand 400 years later Islam comes on the seen and 1900 years later Mormonism both recieved their doctrines from an angel of lite that brought to their (manly) founders a different gospel, God’s sacred Word makes judgment on them before they come into existance and makes the prophet and or angel accursed for bringing another gospel, and ANYONE who preaches another gospel other than the one Jesus gave his Church, all these the prophet, angel, and the teacher are all accursed.
The following applies to both Islam and Mormonism:
Galatians 1:6-9 I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel, not that there is another. But ther are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if WE or an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN SHOULD PREACH TO YOU: a gospel other than the one that we preached to you; LET THAT ONE BE ACCURSED!
vs.9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone PREACHES to you a gOSPEL other than the one that you recieved, let that one be accursed!
So the apostle announces before hand 400 years later Islam comes on the seen and 1900 years later Mormonism both recieved their doctrines from an angel of lite that brought to their (manly) founders a different gospel, God’s sacred Word makes judgment on them before they come into existance and makes the prophet and or angel accursed for bringing another gospel, and ANYONE who preaches another gospel other than the one Jesus gave his Church, all these the prophet, angel, and the teacher are all accursed.
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Gabriel_of_12
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Verisimilitude
Guest
What is unfair about the question? I think it is reasonable to ask since the Qur’an is not clear, and the hadith says Mohammed was afraid because he did not know.
The Jinn praise the Qur’an in Sura 72. Are Musims in the habit of taking things the jinn praise as good things? What else have demons praised that Muslims like?
Abraham, Moses, and Mary to name a few all knew it was God that spoke to them. God said do not be afraid and they were not.
That movie tomshaikh gave a link to is not like the story in the hadith Sam_777 referenced. How do you reconcile that?
The hadith said Mohammed was afraid and did not know because he ran home to his wife in fear. The hadith says Waraqa told Mohammed it was the same spirit that visited Moses.
The movie says Mohammed was told by the spirit “I am Gabriel” outside of the cave after the 1st revelation was given before he got home to his wife. The movie does not mention Waraqa.
Is the movie more accurate than the hadith?
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hamba2han
Guest
The idolators offered the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) riches beyond his dreams to stop preaching. His uncle tried to persuade the Prophet to stop preaching but the Prophet said: "O uncle, if they were to put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to stop me from preaching Islam, I would never stop. I will keep preaching until Allah makes Islam prevail or I die."
This is a truly profound thing that the Prophet (pbuh) said at a moment when he stood to lose everything that he possessed and indeed his own life.
Aren’t Christians impress with the intrepid character of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the resoluteness of his mission?
This is a truly profound thing that the Prophet (pbuh) said at a moment when he stood to lose everything that he possessed and indeed his own life.
Aren’t Christians impress with the intrepid character of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the resoluteness of his mission?
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Not unless you can confirm who gave him his mission to begin with. Joseph Stalin was resolute too and I am not impressed with his history either.
How long after the first call did they offer Mohammed those things for him to stop preaching?
I am still in the cave at Hira with Mohammed. Mohammed did not know who pressed him hard. Why should I believe that spirit? His wife went to Waraqa because she did not know either.
A simple question: where does the spirit identify itself?
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hamba2han
Guest
The proof of the prophet-hood of Muhammad (pbuh) is the Qur’an and this really cannot be emphasised often enough.
Some claim that the Qur’an is the work of the devil. Let us examine how much sense (or non-sense) this allegation makes.
If he authored or inspired the Qur’an, why would Satan curse himself and call himself the worst enemy of man (Q.35:6; 36:60)? Why would Satan command that before reciting the Qur’an, one must first say:
“I seek refuge in God from Satan the accursed.”… (Al-Qur’an 16:98)
How could Satan so vehemently condemn himself? Is it really acceptable to common sense to hold the view that Satan would ask people to do good, to be moral and virtuous, to worship none but God, to not follow Satan or his whispers, and to avoid and struggle against evil?
To hold such a view is clearly repugnant to reason, as Satan has only undermined himself through this means if he is the author. Even the Bible attests:
**“And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.” **(Mark 3:26)
This argument applies to any “Satanic forces”, be they “evil spirits”, “deceitful aliens”, etc.
Furthermore, the fact that the Qur’an was revealed over a period of 23 years and not all at once, most certainly means that the argument that the being that first came to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the cave was not the Angel Gabriel is completely baseless and nonsensical.
Some claim that the Qur’an is the work of the devil. Let us examine how much sense (or non-sense) this allegation makes.
If he authored or inspired the Qur’an, why would Satan curse himself and call himself the worst enemy of man (Q.35:6; 36:60)? Why would Satan command that before reciting the Qur’an, one must first say:
“I seek refuge in God from Satan the accursed.”… (Al-Qur’an 16:98)
How could Satan so vehemently condemn himself? Is it really acceptable to common sense to hold the view that Satan would ask people to do good, to be moral and virtuous, to worship none but God, to not follow Satan or his whispers, and to avoid and struggle against evil?
To hold such a view is clearly repugnant to reason, as Satan has only undermined himself through this means if he is the author. Even the Bible attests:
**“And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.” **(Mark 3:26)
This argument applies to any “Satanic forces”, be they “evil spirits”, “deceitful aliens”, etc.
Furthermore, the fact that the Qur’an was revealed over a period of 23 years and not all at once, most certainly means that the argument that the being that first came to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the cave was not the Angel Gabriel is completely baseless and nonsensical.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
It is all I want to know. Until I know that I do not care to hear what it said over 23 years.
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swariffin
Guest
If I post the same question in Islamic board, will it be posted without any death thread to me?
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Sam_777
Guest
A good question indeed, here is my view:
We actually say “I seek refuge in Allah from Satan the accursed.” notice that its Allah NOT God, as shown in this link, however, for me there is a big difference, since after researching more & more about the origin name of Allah, I start be suspicious about that name, for these three reasons:
- Some sources claim that the word “alah” means “a curse” in Hebrew.
- Some sources claim that the name Allah is nothing but a moon god ( we have taken the crescent moon as a symbol in all our Mosques and some of our national flags, even we Muslims are using the lunar calendar in Saudi Arabia as our official calender, and all the Islamic countries fasting Ramadan based on it).
- Some sources claim that the name Allah was the chief god over the 360 idols that were in Kaaba before Islam, that is why we always hear the words “Allah Akbar” in Arabic it means “Allah is Bigger”, (i.e., bigger than the 360 idols).
FYI: personally I’m not saying Allah any more when praying, I’m substituting that with “God The Most High” instead (just to make sure that it reaches the right God).
Let us read this from the Bible:
“12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isaiah 14:12-14).
From the above, it clearly shows that Satan must create some sort of religion in order to find himself followers, and he must put some good earthy stuff in it, like prohibiting Alcohol, gambling, etc, else who would follow him!
My view that Satan will stand before God The Most High in the judgment day, and say, see God how many people I have deceived, I made myself like God as I had planned.
I see no reason why not, what is the point!, Satan is with us from the day Adam fell till now, beside, we might assume that Satan just came few times to Muhammad, then Muhammad completed the hoax by himself, considering that some Islamic sources are saying that there were some periods where the revelation was suspended.
I suggest every Arabic speaking person to read the Pre-Islamic history of Arabian Peninsula by “Dr. Jawad Alali”, you would find most if not all of our Islamic rituals were actually taken place before Islam, here is a link to download a soft-copy of the book.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
This should be the most simple question to answer; where does the spirit that spoke to Mohammed over 23 years identifiy itself by either saying “I am Gabriel”, or “I am an Angel from God” either in the Qur’an or hadith.
Whether you believe them corrupt or not there are many quotes in the Gospels where Jesus admits He speaks with authority for God and is God.
hamba2han, tomshaikh, Sister Amy, planten, meedo, Rayaan…anyone; will you answer? Your whole religion is based upon this spirit being truthfull to Mohammed, but I cannot find how you know it to be Gabriel from the spirit itself. Other than oral tradition, what convinces you?
Whether you believe them corrupt or not there are many quotes in the Gospels where Jesus admits He speaks with authority for God and is God.
hamba2han, tomshaikh, Sister Amy, planten, meedo, Rayaan…anyone; will you answer? Your whole religion is based upon this spirit being truthfull to Mohammed, but I cannot find how you know it to be Gabriel from the spirit itself. Other than oral tradition, what convinces you?
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Angelos
Guest
I do not personally believe that the Koran was revealed at all!
It was not revealed, but made up through Mohammad’s zealousness to work Judaism, Christianity, and idolatry into one single faith as well as through his scribes’ - some people vacillating between monotheism and polytheism in Mecca - talents in plagiarism and aptitude to devising a new religious literature.
Nevertheless, it will not be wrong to emphasize the fact that satan and all evil spirits inspire men to cause confusion and replace the divine truth with falsehood. In this respect, the Koran could be considered some destructive fire enkindled by Mohammad himself, who definitely received from satan and demons the crucial elements (such as beguile) to keep his fire burning.
It was not revealed, but made up through Mohammad’s zealousness to work Judaism, Christianity, and idolatry into one single faith as well as through his scribes’ - some people vacillating between monotheism and polytheism in Mecca - talents in plagiarism and aptitude to devising a new religious literature.
Nevertheless, it will not be wrong to emphasize the fact that satan and all evil spirits inspire men to cause confusion and replace the divine truth with falsehood. In this respect, the Koran could be considered some destructive fire enkindled by Mohammad himself, who definitely received from satan and demons the crucial elements (such as beguile) to keep his fire burning.
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
This is a poll for all memebrs of this forum, which includes not just Catholics or other Chritians. but atheists, neo-pagans, muslims, etc…
BTW “fair” tends to be a word children use to try and bully their parents with. Life is, never has been, and never will be “fair”
Pray for justice and mercy instead.
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