Mohammeds revelations- who/what revealed them?

[Angelos]

I am really, really, really, REALLY curious here.

For those who seem to be so obsessed about determining with 100% certainty the identity of the being in the cave on that momentous night, why don’t you show this same level of burning desire to also determine with 100% certainty, the identity of the being in the vision that Paul supposedly had while on the road to Damascus?

After all, Christianity’s belief in Jesus (pbuh) being everyone’s Lord and personal saviour, rests entirely on what Paul saw and heard in his ‘vision’ that day.

The answer to your question is in the Acts of the Apostles

If you read the sections relating Paul’s conversion in that book, you will see that the person appearing to Paul on the road to Damascus is no one else than Jesus of Nazareth, whom Paul had been persecuting. The NT, unlike the Koran, does not hide from us believers the identity of the person appearing to Paul and sending him to Gentiles as a prophet of the Gospel.

Besides, your allegation that “belief in Jesus’ being everyone’s Lord and Savior rests entirely on what Paul saw and heard in his vision that day” is NOT true and plausible. This is basically because all the apostles and disciples in the NT give testimony to Jesus’ being Lord and Savior long before Paul’s conversion.

However, Islam defends and teaches the personal manipulation of the so-called final divine revelation by Mohammad since the Koran is considered a confidential message mysteriously delievered to Mohammad alone in a cave. This is what makes the true identity of the person or creature revealing the message crucial.

 

[hamba2han]

The answer to your question is in the Acts of the Apostles

If you read the sections relating Paul’s conversion in that book, you will see that the person appearing to Paul on the road to Damascus is no one else than Jesus of Nazareth, whom Paul had been persecuting…

How are you 100% certain that it was not an evil being pretending to be Jesus (pbuh) who appeared in Paul’s vision while on the road to Damascus?

Did Paul ever meet Jesus before he had his vision that enabled him to positively identify the being?

 

[inJESUS]

How are you 100% certain

that it was not an evil being pretending to be Jesus (pbuh) who appeared in Paul’s vision while on the road to Damascus? His teachings and his life (fruit). The apostles bear witness to both.

Did Paul ever meet Jesus before he had his vision that enabled him to positively identify the being?

 

[Verisimilitude]

The answer to your question is in the Acts of the Apostles
inJESUS;3655750:

His teachings and his life (fruit). The apostles bear witness to both.

Thank you both for good answers.

hamba2han, If St. Paul said to the Apostles he did not know who blinded him they would have doubted him more than they did even when he told them. And if Pauls actions over the rest of his life were at odds with the other Apostles they would have denounced him. If they had I would not believe the words of St. Paul.

 

[Angelos]

How are you 100% certain that it was not an evil being pretending to be Jesus (pbuh) who appeared in Paul’s vision while on the road to Damascus?

Why would an evil being appear to Paul on his way to Damascus? I am 100% sure that who appeared to Paul was Jesus because everyone at that time witnessed both Paul’s conversion and his zeal to proclaim the Gospel as a devoted disciple of Christ.

The NT is clear on who appeared to Paul unlike the Koran, which does not contain the narrative of Mohammad’s encounter with an angel or another spiritual being.

Did Paul ever meet Jesus before he had his vision that enabled him to positively identify the being?

What would this change at all? Paul did not need to see Jesus prior to his conversion in order to identify Him in his vision! Actually, Paul asked the speaker in his vision to identify Himself (Who are you, sir?), and Jesus confirmed His identity when He identified Paul as His persecutor. (I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you have been persecuting)

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I am really, really, really, REALLY curious here.

For those who seem to be so obsessed about determining with 100% certainty the identity of the being in the cave on that momentous night, why don’t you show this same level of burning desire to also determine with 100% certainty, the identity of the being in the vision that Paul supposedly had while on the road to Damascus?

After all, Christianity’s belief in Jesus (pbuh) being everyone’s Lord and personal saviour, rests entirely on what Paul saw and heard in his ‘vision’ that day.

Because Paul’s testimony of Jesus does not contradict prophecy that was foretold. And it does not contradict the gospels which are a witness to Jesus too. And Paul’s execution is a witness to Jesus’ death as well.

You’re wrong about the “rests entirely” suggestion. Unlike Islam which has a lone messenger, Christianity has many prophets, apostles, and martyrs who are all witnesses to virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Praise be to Lord Jesus Christ - King of endless glory!

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

What a funny think. How could one be a witness to the verginity of a woman? None, except the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

Similarly, the death of the Apostles has got nothing to do with Jesus who survived a cursed death on Cross as he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. He was not a fake person so how could he die on Cross? Our friends have strange concepts; they thik their ChristianGod died for full three days; yet they lived happily in all these three days.!!!

Others are welcome to differ with me with sound arguments.

Thanks

 

[Verisimilitude]

Hi

What a funny think. How could one be a witness to the verginity of a woman? None, except the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

Who claimed to witness it? Are you on the right thread, paarsurrey? Will you vote in this poll. So far I have found it interesting to see who/how people have voted.

Similarly, the death of the Apostles has got nothing to do with Jesus who survived a cursed death on Cross as he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. He was not a fake person so how could he die on Cross? Our friends have strange concepts; they thik their ChristianGod died for full three days; yet they lived happily in all these three days.!!!

I don’t understand who you think was happy when Jesus was in the tomb.

Others are welcome to differ with me with sound arguments.

Thanks

When you come up with sound questions I think we can answer you.

Can you tell me how you know it was Gabriel that spoke to Mohammed in the cave at Hira?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

What a funny think. How could one be a witness to the verginity of a woman? None, except the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

Similarly, the death of the Apostles has got nothing to do with Jesus who survived a cursed death on Cross as he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. He was not a fake person so how could he die on Cross? Our friends have strange concepts; they thik their ChristianGod died for full three days; yet they lived happily in all these three days.!!!

Others are welcome to differ with me with sound arguments.

Thanks

If you can’t believe that the crucifixion killed Jesus, then I won’t waste our time discussing the virgin birth. Relative to Jesus dying on the cross, other things just aren’t important.

 

[Angelos]

Hi

What a funny think. How could one be a witness to the verginity of a woman? None, except the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

What does this have to do with Paul’s conversion??? You sound rather confused.

Similarly, the death of the Apostles has got nothing to do with Jesus who survived a cursed death on Cross as he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. He was not a fake person so how could he die on Cross? Our friends have strange concepts; they thik their ChristianGod died for full three days; yet they lived happily in all these three days.!!!

According to your scripture, your Allah created a FAKE Jesus to save Him from death and deceive His adversaries. If Jesus was crucified, but “somehow” survived death on the cross, this allegation does ot suffice to save Jesus from the image of a crucified criminal. You have uncanny concepts! You also apparently know NOTHING about Christian tenets concerning Jesus’ divinity and death!

Study the Bible, dear paarsurrey and save yourself from the image of an ignorant.

 

[dolphinlove]

Study the Bible, dear paarsurrey and save yourself from the image of an ignorant.

I do agree with Angelos, Paarsurrey. I think you would do yourself a great favour if you study the bible with an open mind.

 

[MugenOne]

I voted “demon or Satan.” Any religious that tells its members to marry a virgin so they can have fun “fondling” is not a religion at all. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[paarsurrey]

Who claimed to witness it? Are you on the right thread, paarsurrey?

Hi

I think you missed reading it perhaps; one of the posters wrote
“apostles, and martyrs who are all witnesses to virgin birth”.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

I am really, really, really, REALLY curious here.

For those who seem to be so obsessed about determining with 100% certainty the identity of the being in the cave on that momentous night, why don’t you show this same level of burning desire to also determine with 100% certainty, the identity of the being in the vision that Paul supposedly had while on the road to Damascus?

After all, Christianity’s belief in Jesus (pbuh) being everyone’s Lord and personal saviour, rests entirely on what Paul saw and heard in his ‘vision’ that day.

Yes, although the companions of Paul did not see anything, but they heard the whole conversation of Paul. Besides, at the same time a follower of Jesus named Ananias also had an apparation of Jesus, to send him to a person named Saul, and told him also that Saul was a chosen man of Jesus. So, many witnesses about Paul’s conversion. In this case, it was no lie. Why would you conclude that Christianity rest on Paul only? Did Paul appointed Peter to be head of the church? or Did Paul ever became Peter’s successor? Paul never ever became the head of church, and Paul even respected and accepted the Primacy of Peter. For Paul’s teaching for the gentiles, he consulted Peter and the apostles in Jerusalem, and continued after gaining their approval. Geez, you made an accusation even before finished reading the whole case.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

What a funny think. How could one be a witness to the verginity of a woman? None, except the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

Similarly, the death of the Apostles has got nothing to do with Jesus who survived a cursed death on Cross as he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. He was not a fake person so how could he die on Cross? Our friends have strange concepts; they thik their ChristianGod died for full three days; yet they lived happily in all these three days.!!!

Others are welcome to differ with me with sound arguments.

Thanks

Dear Paar,

Have you read the entire gospels? How can you say that Jesus follower lived happily in all these three days? Don’t you read that they were scattered and scared? Come on, finished the reading before making comments. Otherwise, you would be the one who have a strange concept.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

I think you missed reading it perhaps; one of the posters wrote
“apostles, and martyrs who are all witnesses to virgin birth”.

Thanks

Dear Paar,

You forgot that Joseph was the only man who has the legal right to verify Mary’s virginity even after giving birth to Jesus. Other persons, would be some woman who helped Mary giving birth to Jesus. You should use your logic a little bit, my brother. Did Mary gave birth to Jesus without any help from other person except Joseph? How could a carpenter help a women giving birth? Also, Mary was not giving birth in the middle of nowhere, you know. That virgin birth gave an undeniable proof to Joseph about who is Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

One of my friends here has written:

“Christianity has many prophets, apostles, and martyrs who are all witnesses to virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus”

My submissions:

1. For virginity of Maryam, there can be no witnesses; as mentioned by me, except GodAllahYHWH the Omnipresent.
2. For death of Jesus on Cross; there was no proper witnesses.
   a. There was no qualified physician there to certify that Jesus had died; all laymen guesses
   b. There are conflicting reports in the gospels; some say the disciples fled away from the scene. Name how many from the twelve were present?
   c. If a few were there; they were at a distance. If they were there for the purpose of witnessing; none of them went upto Jesus close enough to certify that Jesus had died. Please remember, on this single point Paul constructed the whole edifice of the present “Christianity” at Rome, so it has to be seen in full details.
3. The edifice of witnessing perhaps rests only with a Roman constable as per the story of NTBible, I think.
4. As for the resurrection; when Jesus’ death on cross never happened; there is no question of any resurrection.

Please treat it as my Bible study class.

One could differ with me with reasons; absolutely no compulsions.

Thanks

 

[ralphinal]

Hi

One of my friends here has written:

“Christianity has many prophets, apostles, and martyrs who are all witnesses to virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus”

My submissions:

1. For virginity of Maryam, there can be no witnesses; as mentioned by me, except GodAllahYHWH the Omnipresent.

There is some truth to this, although she herself can attest to it. St. Joseph could as well.

1. For death of Jesus on Cross; there was no proper witnesses.

I don’t usually respond in this way, but it is in keeping with the thread: Who were the proper witnesses for Muhammed receiving the Koran? There were witnesses at the Crucifixion, one of whom wrote a Gospel, three epistles, and the Book of Revelation.

a. There was no qualified physician there to certify that Jesus had died; all laymen guesses

Technically true, but Roman Soldiers were there, and they were experts in killing and death.

b. There are conflicting reports in the gospels; some say the disciples fled away from the scene. Name how many from the twelve were present?

One was there: John. See previous point about what all he wrote

c. If a few were there; they were at a distance. If they were there for the purpose of witnessing; none of them went upto Jesus close enough to certify that Jesus had died. Please remember, on this single point Paul constructed the whole edifice of the present “Christianity” at Rome, so it has to be seen in full details.

This is historically inaccurate. Roman crucifixions were done where crowds could get close enough to taunt the crucified. Also, the populace had to be allowed to be close enough to see the horrid nature of what happened if you made Rome mad. Do not forget that he was taken off of the cross and given to his followers to bury. They would have known if he was dead. His side had also been pierced with a lance. Again, by a Roman soldier, who knew how to inflict a death blow on a stationary target. Jesus bled to death.

1. The edifice of witnessing perhaps rests only with a Roman constable as per the story of NTBible, I think.

Nope. His Mother, several female followers, and others attest to it. Is the issue that they were female witnesses? There were four, so that should be ok.

1. As for the resurrection; when Jesus’ death on cross never happened; there is no question of any resurrection.

Please treat it as my Bible study class.

One could differ with me with reasons; absolutely no compulsions.

Thanks

But he DID die. Anyway, I do love the kindness and thoughtfulness you put into your posts. I do think that if your sect of Islam was more prevelant, there would be less conflict over religion.

 

[swariffin]

But he DID die. Anyway, I do love the kindness and thoughtfulness you put into your posts. I do think that if your sect of Islam was more prevelant, there would be less conflict over religion.

Agreed. I would rather having arguments with Paarsurrey using pens or computer keyboard, rather than using weapons. I believe Paar will agree. Paar’s points are challenging and sometimes interesting. BTW, where have you been Paar? I think that I miss your posting for several weeks. Were you OK?

 

[paarsurrey]

Agreed. I would rather having arguments with Paarsurrey using pens or computer keyboard, rather than using weapons. I believe Paar will agree. Paar’s points are challenging and sometimes interesting. BTW, where have you been Paar? I think that I miss your posting for several weeks. Were you OK?

Hi

Thank you for missing me and remembring me. You are a peaceful and polite person; I like you.

I was busy with peaceful discussion on an AtheistAgnostic forum; they are also good people, but Catholics are more friendly, humanly and charitable. I feel quite at home here.

Thanks