Money and the catholic church - Sacraments denied

[Seatuck]

I’ve never had such experience at my Parish. Actually, when my brother died in 6/2004, the Priest offered to give his little girls a scholarship to go to the Catholic school that belongs to the Parish. The $ is used for so many purposes but I’ve never been denied a Sacrament due to $$.

Plus, I never use the envelopes, I just put the money in the basket. They don’t track you down if there is no envelope w/your name on it… or do they?

We have been taking surveys to see if the money spent on the envelopes is worth it at our Parish. It’s looking like it might not be. Parishioners are going to be required to do yearly or perhaps up to every five years registration.Otherwise people are going to be dropped from the rolls. It costs money to mail out letters to those on the list asking if they’d still like to be on the list. It’d be a lot easier for folks if they just used the envelopes.Those who are active in ministries are going to find it easier than those who aren’t to register. So again it is about involvement.

The envelope system is good for many reasons. There is the registration aspect ovbviously which has been pointed out in this thread. The tax/IRS implication which benifits both parishioner and protects the church. The budget side of things. The Parish has a right to know it is going to be supported by it’s members. The Parish should be able to trust us to provide a certain amount and make good spending decisions based on that. Remember if everybody was tithing there would be no fees for anything. Wouldn’t even come up. Since Catholics aren’t required to actually tithe they tend to not even hit 5%.
So for those of us who do tithe , the envelopes help us with that. They include not only the day to day operations of our home church but the church on a diocesan, a national and of course global with the Peter’s Pence collection envelope.I personally like see all the charitiy opportunities for we Catholics to take part in.

I’ve never heard of the empty envelope idea. Sounds good. There are very few people who could put nothing in it.I’m pretty sure we had a reading a couple of weeks ago about the Widow’s Mite and the other other story with the woman who made a cake for Elijah I think , with her last bit of grain .
Why not include a note that you are grateful for a place to come for Mass? Something to think about.

The church is often being criticized for lack of involved people. The envelopes is one small way to be involved just on the financial level.

 

[puzzleannie]

It’s two different things when a non-Catholic wants to use a Catholic church to be married and when a Catholic who is not registered wants to be baptized or buried.

Sometimes one pastor may be rigorously following some diocesan rule, but the pastor in the next parish might be willing to be more flexible.

there is no provision in canon law to require a person to register in a parish before receiving sacraments. No particular law of any diocese will go against this canon law. Registration for the purposes of tracking donations as part of financial accountability is allowed and encouraged, but it may not be used as a test for sacraments.

heartily agree with advice on diplomacy, tact, and persistance. specifically, a secretary, DRE, sister or even deacon is NOT the pastor and only he has the right to speak for the bishop in these matters.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

there is no provision in canon law to require a person to register in a parish before receiving sacraments. No particular law of any diocese will go against this canon law. Registration for the purposes of tracking donations as part of financial accountability is allowed and encouraged, but it may not be used as a test for sacraments.

heartily agree with advice on diplomacy, tact, and persistance. specifically, a secretary, DRE, sister or even deacon is NOT the pastor and only he has the right to speak for the bishop in these matters.

A Catholic funeral is not a Sacrament and therefore can legitimately be reserved to registered members of a parish.

Pastors generally will not freely Baptize a child of people they do not know except in an emergency.

Baptism is the only Sacrament necessary for salvation and is not repeatable. It must be recorded in the parish Baptismal register even when administered by a lay person in an emergency. Pastors are responsible for the celebration of all the Sacraments for people who live in their parish, this would include the verification of preparation for their reception.

 

[puzzleannie]

qhite right. neither are quincenaras and similar occassions sacraments, so a parish may also legitimately limit these to registered parishioners. the parish may also have a two-tier fee schedule for use of the church, hall etc. for parishioners and non-parishioners and require some kind of support test for use of the facilities and the “parish rate”, or peg school tuition to support of the parish for instance.

A Catholic is automatically a member of the parish in which he resides and comes under the pastoral care of the pastor of that parish, and is supposed to support that parish, participate in its liturgies and celebrate the sacraments there, unless there is a good reason for going somewhere else. A pastor has the right to know when and why a parishioner is going somewhere else to baptize or be married, and in fact, a letter is required if a parishioner seeks these sacraments in another parish.

 

[cameron_lansing]

A Catholic funeral is not a Sacrament and therefore can legitimately be reserved to registered members of a parish.

Even though not a sacrament, a funeral is still subject to the provisions of law since it is an act of divine worship.

Parish membership is determined by domicile or quasi domicile in the territory of the parish and not registration (c. 102), with exception for membership in a personal parish (c. 518). This is understood to confer a right to Catholic burial for the faithful (and catechumens according to c. 1183 §1) who reside in that parish. The local ordinary can permit other cases (c. 1183 §§2-3). The Eastern code is even broader (CCEO 876 §2).

It is true that as a rule the funeral rites for any of the faithful departed must be celebrated in his or her own parish church (1177 §1). However one may choose another church with the consent of its rector (consistent with the legitimate reservation to parishioners above) and having informed the pastor of the deceased (c. 1177 §2). Yet if death occurs elsewhere and the body has not been transferred and another church not lawfully named for the funeral, the rites are normally celebrated at the church of the parish of death (c. 1177 §3).

 

[Marauder]

A Catholic is automatically a member of the parish in which he resides and comes under the pastoral care of the pastor of that parish… pastor has the right to know when and why a parishioner is going somewhere else to baptize or be married, and in fact, a letter is required if a parishioner seeks these sacraments in another parish.

Actually those are not requirements, you are allowed to be a registered member of any parish you wish and no forms are required other then the forms to register at the parish. Only requirements are that when you do sign up for special things (i.e. baptisms of kids, marriage, etc.) you have to show proof of receiving sacrements to your new parish. That proof comes from the parish in which you received the sacrements, not from your “local” parish.

I personally have never had any relationship at all with my geographic parish and nothing ever came up when I was married or had my kids baptised.

Yes technically I am a member of my geographic parish, but I am not required to go there or support it.

 

[puzzleannie]

If you seek to be married or to baptize in another parish than your own you must have a letter of permission from your pastor to do so. The other pastor does not have the faculty to baptize or marry non-parishioners. The pastor of the parish where you will be celebrating the sacrament then is responsible for overseeing whatever preparation is required. This letters are routine and there is not problem getting it (always allowing enough reasonable time to get it done), but it is still required.

 

[prv]

Actually no parishes in our area (the 6 parishes in Bethesda) has such a policy. There is no requirement to use the envelopes, and as far as I know no denial of the sacrament for people who don’t.

This is a rather interesting query. I don’t have any envelopes despite having registered online in the parish a few months back, so I just put money directly into the basket. There is no possible way for the clergy to know if I put money in (or not), other than by directly watching me. I have never been refused Holy Communion and I don’t see how one can be on this account (how does one discern non-contributing parishioners from visitors?). We don’t have visitors envelops here at OLOA.

 

[prv]

Right, it is not an requirement. At my parish, if people don’t use the envelop then they won’t get them in the mail.

Huh? How can people use the envelopes if they don’t get them at all?

 

[Seatuck]

Huh? How can people use the envelopes if they don’t get them at all?

You have to ask for them in order to start getting them.They ask you when you register at the office. I remember the old “general purpose” envelopes that used to get left in the spaces in the pews for that purpose. There was a place to write your name and address and a box to check if you wanted envelopes. There was always that little half a pencil in it’s space also .

 

[puzzleannie]

envelopes are not the only way to donate and have a record for tax purposes in many parishes. some take credit cards, pay pal, direct deposit, automatic bill pay from your bank for either regular weekly, monthly, quarterly or annual donations, or one time donations for special purposes. bear in mind that individual donations of a certain amount (it used to be $500, don’t know what it is now) require a receipt according to IRS, so we should see more parishes moving toward these more efficient tracking methods. When we are talking about sacraments we are talking about donations, not fees. there is not and never can be a fee for a sacrament.

 

[lak611]

Back when I was in high school, I had a volunteer job at my parish helping keep track of the envelopes and donations. My parish wanted the envelopes, not just for the money but also to keep track of attendance at Mass. If somebody could not afford to contribute, they wrote “present” on their envelope, so it was evident who belonged to and was active in the parish but was poor. This also helped the St. Vincent DePaul group know which families were in need of assistance.

 

[Cobbfmly]

…Now on those Sundays when I attend Mass at my parish, sometimes I use the envelope and sometimes not. Sometimes you prefer to write one check to cover two weeks instead of a check every single week…

Our parish has monthly EFT for the regular weekly collection. The only time parishioners using EFT would put an envelope and/or check into the collection would be special collections (i.e. for missions, for poor, etc). Therefore, envelope usage is not a good measure of attendance.