Moon base: Location, location, location

[ChristIsTheWay]

In a weird way, this reminds me of the arguments that Protestants make about the Catholic Church being too rich, and that it shouldn’t have such fancy churches. All of that “extra money” should go to charity. Surely our country has money to deal with social problems AND exploration.

I think that is true. I’m quite skeptical of either-or stuff. If we wanted, we could do both.

 

[JimG]

What’s the betting that when you get there you’ll find the Chinese are already settled in and you’ll be welcomed with huge dazzling smiles

I recommend that the United States work on accomplishing a moon base before the Chinese get there. But right now, I wouldn’t bet on it. This administration is more focused on promoting abortion and ESCR and socializing health care and taxing the rich than on anything forward and outward looking.

 

[Appleby]

Oh, yes it does. And if you believe ANYTHING that Smitherman says, especially about sex change operations and the like (he is homosexual, you know) you are delusional. Any government program always ends up costing at least 10 times what it was supposed to cost in the first year alone, and once it is established, it grows exponentially. Go back and read about what medicare was supposed to cost when it was being proposed. And take a look at who Social Security was supposed to cover when Roosevelt began it, and what and whom it covers now.

I live in Ontario and I know we pay through the nose for health care we frequently cannot get. Ontario smacks us for an extra $900 health premium every year that goes straight into General Revenues so McGinty can buy votes with it. I lived here several years without being able to get a family doctor, and millions of Canadians still exist in that condition.

If you choose to believe media propaganda instead of your own eyes, that is fine with me. There are lots like you up here, sloganeering away right from Brave New World.

Canadian universal health care does NOT pay for breast augmentation,or any other cosmetic surgery.Don’t be so disingenuous in your rush to ingratiate yourself.You also realise or you should(before making sweeping comments)that the cost of srs surgery is minimal.

"Smitherman says surgery for `very serious medical condition’ will cost health plan $200,000 yearly

May 16, 2008 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (1)
Rob Ferguson
Queen’s Park Bureau

The small number of Ontarians hoping for sex-change operations will soon see the surgery covered by provincial health insurance again.

The decision is expected to cost a total of $200,000 a year because just “eight to 10” people annually are expected to pass the “very rigorous” psychological evaluation required before sex reassignment surgery, Health Minister George Smitherman said yesterday.

“It’s a very serious medical condition that affects a very small number of people,” he told reporters, noting that other provinces including Alberta pay for the surgery.

Smitherman acknowledged the coverage could be controversial in some circles, given the heavy demands on Ontario’s health-care system from people with rare, life-threatening diseases, for example.

“I think that people should be careful not to use what is $200,000 on a $40.2 billion health budget as an excuse to try a bit of a `them and us’ conversation,” he said.

It was 10 years ago that the previous Progressive Conservative government declared the operations were no longer eligible under the taxpayer-funded Ontario Health Insurance Plan, which had covered the surgery since 1971."Toronto Star,may 16,2008.

That’s 8-10 sex reassignment surgeries PER YEAR.$200,000 out of a 40.2B$ budget.Hardly the horrible situation that you imply.

The reason that private insurance is not allowed is that it would create a two-tier health care system,and destroy the public one as unscrupulous organisations have been doing for years.Strange also the amount of “medical tourism” Canada experiences from our American neighbours.Even as American medical tourists must pay the full cost of their treatment in Canada it does not approach the astronomical sums they must pay in the States due to the profit factor built into the U.S. system.We’re healthier and we live longer yet we come from the same stock.Strange,no?No.

The reason we do not have private insurance is that Rich People would not die on waiting lists if we had it. And you could not stand the thought of a Rich Person having anything you do not have. That is socialism.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

The reason that private insurance is not allowed is that it would create a two-tier health care system,and destroy the public one as unscrupulous organisations have been doing for years.

So, a two-tiered system is banned because the private insurance would create a better result for those who buy it? I’ve heard this argument from an American group that lobbies for single payer universal healthcare. That confirms to me that the public programs are inferior to what private insurance offers. If they weren’t, there’d be no real need to ban them. The bad ole evil insurance companies wouldn’t be able to convince a single person to destroy the public program if the private companies’ services were inferior.

 

[Valke2]

I recommend that the United States work on accomplishing a moon base before the Chinese get there. But right now, I wouldn’t bet on it. This administration is more focused on promoting abortion and ESCR and socializing health care and taxing the rich than on anything forward and outward looking.

I agree 100%. But I think the US will be in control of the valuable real estate.

 

[Soutane]

Oh, yes it does. And if you believe ANYTHING that Smitherman says, especially about sex change operations and the like (he is homosexual, you know) you are delusional. Any government program always ends up costing at least 10 times what it was supposed to cost in the first year alone, and once it is established, it grows exponentially. Go back and read about what medicare was supposed to cost when it was being proposed. And take a look at who Social Security was supposed to cover when Roosevelt began it, and what and whom it covers now.

I live in Ontario and I know we pay through the nose for health care we frequently cannot get. Ontario smacks us for an extra $900 health premium every year that goes straight into General Revenues so McGinty can buy votes with it. I lived here several years without being able to get a family doctor, and millions of Canadians still exist in that condition.

If you choose to believe media propaganda instead of your own eyes, that is fine with me. There are lots like you up here, sloganeering away right from Brave New World.

The reason we do not have private insurance is that Rich People would not die on waiting lists if we had it. And you could not stand the thought of a Rich Person having anything you do not have. That is socialism.

Thanks for setting me straight,bubba.Of course!!!If Smitherman is a homosexual he MUST be lying.It’s as plain as the nose on your face,hee-yuck!

Roosevelt,hmmmm?Can’t seem to recall him ever being Prime Minister.

You seem to have a problem with McGinty as I do.Are you working to get him defeated,or just bitching about it on a predominantly American forum?$900.00 per year-pretty cheap,I’d say.I’ll bet many of our American cousins would JUMP at the opportunity to pay that instead of oh,let’s say…$900.00 per month."

I’ve lived here several years without being able to get a family doctor, and millions of Canadians still exist in that condition."But you have one now,right?When my doctor retired I looked for one for several months and had to use any one of dozens of medical clinics who take SAME DAY walk-ins.And guess what?I found one in my small little town on the shore of Lake Erie.Can’t find one in Toronto,pop.close to 3,000,000?Don’t make me laugh. Hyperbole and disinformation does NOT strengthen your case.It simply makes you look foolish.Or someone with an agenda.In either case it does not lead to cogent arguementation and undermines your theses.
Oh and by the by the reason we have a Doctor shortage is because the Ontario Medical Association and others across the Great White North have successfully lobbied for years to restrict admissions into Medical School to protect their own baliwicks…They have also made it almost impossible for medical immigrants to work in their profession.
"millions of Canadians still exist in that condition."Tsk-tsk didn’t momma warn you about telling fibs?Perhaps you are just misinformed-I choose to believe the latter.

“If you choose to believe media propaganda instead of your own eyes, that is fine with me. There are lots like you up here, sloganeering away right from Brave New World.”
Hold on there Ghengis,I’m no socialist,and you’re no Aldous Huxley.Now you really ARE just getting silly.

"The reason we do not have private insurance is that Rich People would not die on waiting lists if we had it. And you could not stand the thought of a Rich Person having anything you do not have. That is socialism.

The reason that we do not have private medical insurance is that it has been used or rather attempted to be used to destroy universal medical care and you know it.I didn’t know that rich people required capitalization,“Rich People”.Freudian slip?
No rich person EVER died on a waiting list.THEY have access to any Health System in the world and don’t pretend they don’t.In your frenzy to ingratiate yourself to your American audience exaggeration,misinformation and hyperbole should NOT be relied on to support your thesis or theses as it only undermines it and makes you appear silly.

“You could not stand the thought of a Rich Person having anything you do not have”. Oooooh! I’m SUCH a Commie Pinko!!!How do you know I’m not “Rich” and just possess integrity and respect for the truth?It must be such a trial living in Canada.Why do you persist?You are much too much a rugged individualist for the likes of us.

Oh I get it!!!You’re really an NDP plant who’s just trying to make Conservatives look foolish.Almost had me you rascal.

 

[Soutane]

So, a two-tiered system is banned because the private insurance would create a better result for those who buy it? I’ve heard this argument from an American group that lobbies for single payer universal healthcare. That confirms to me that the public programs are inferior to what private insurance offers. If they weren’t, there’d be no real need to ban them. The bad ole evil insurance companies wouldn’t be able to convince a single person to destroy the public program if the private companies’ services were inferior.

Which American group?Proof please.Not that I don’t believe you……assertions of an anecdotal nature have a funny way of being(ahem) “skewed” to support one’s agenda and are essentially valueless and frowned upon in debate.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Which American group?Proof please.Not that I don’t believe you……assertions of an anecdotal nature have a funny way of being(ahem) “skewed” to support one’s agenda and are essentially valueless and frowned upon in debate.

See here: pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php

Can a business keep private insurance if they choose?

Yes and no. Everyone has to be included in the new system for it to be able to control costs, reduce bureaucracy, and cover everyone. In Canada, businesses can purchase additional private insurance that covers things not covered by the national plan (e.g. private rooms, orthodontia, etc.). However, we support a comprehensive benefit package for the single-payer program that would eliminate the need (and most demand) for supplemental coverage.

Insurance companies would not be allowed to offer the same benefits as the universal health care system, a restriction contained in the traditional Medicare program. Allowing such duplication of coverage weakens and eventually destabilizes the health care system. It undermines the principle of pooling the risk. Health care systems act as universal insurers. At any one time the healthy help pay for those who are ill. If private insurers are allowed to cherry-pick the healthy, leaving the public health care system with the very sick, the system will fail.

This, in fact, is what we see happening to Medicare through the Medicare Advantage program. The government pays Medicare HMOs 13% more than it pays traditional Medicare, yet the HMOs care for a healthier mix of seniors. This is leading to privatization of Medicare and funding shortfalls for the traditional Medicare program.

and…

Why shouldn’t we let people buy better health care if they can afford it?

Whenever we allow the wealthy to buy better care or jump the queue, health care for the rest of us suffers. If the wealthy are forced to rely on the same health system as the poor, they will use their political power to assure that the health system is well funded. Conversely, programs for the poor become poor programs. For instance, because Medicaid doesn’t serve the wealthy, the payment rates are low and many physicians refuse to see Medicaid patients. Calls to improve Medicaid fall on deaf ears because the beneficiaries are not considered politically important. Moreover, when the wealthy jump the queue, it results in longer waits for others. Studies in New Zealand and Canada show that the growth of private care in parallel to the public system results in lengthening waits. Additionally, allowing the development of a parallel, private system for the wealthy means the creation of a permanent lobby for underfunding public care. Such underfunding increases the demand for private care.

They also discuss it here: pnhp.org/facts/key_features_of_singlepayer.php