J
- Status
C
CopticChristian
Guest
JR,
I approached the reading of this with the hope that it would assail my concern for similar issues as proposed by the OP and the sentiment that I was left with lingered and periodically I revisit this letter. It makes as much sense as anything else I have read…and perhaps if all read it they will understand what it is John Paul II, who took the time to reflect on suffering has to say…
M
missluckie26
Guest
Thank you all for your replies, I have alot to re-read and contemplate. When I do, I’ll surely post back here…
No, there isn’t a magic bullet, but I didn’t expect such. In honesty I have been raised since I could talk–with Jesus. No real religion, just a following of the Bible, with a mother who in her better years–was a minister. I went to a Christian school with Christian teachings for a bit, and my mom has and always will be Jesus’ biggest advocate. Throughout my illness, my family has had to rectify their beliefs in facing my mortality…And they’ve all chosen to believe in him and they all seem happier for it. I’m glad. I’m not happier, with him. I’m angrier and more desolate than I ever have been. The more I see and learn of the world, the more I experience and feel what life has to offer, the more frightening the prospect that there is a God not only condoning what happens by inaction–but also holding something over my head like eternal damnation. I haven’t done a single thing that deserves such treatment, and neither have any of you.
I’m 26 now. I’ve been in the darkest state of sadness and pain since I was 19. I’ve pulled myself out and here I am, and yes I do have to admit I’m quite angry with God. Since childhood I’ve been nothing but abused by man, and left in quiet silence when it comes to God. I’ve suffered illness since being born–hell, the day I was born I was being choked by my own biology. I grew up fighting and trying to keep up with healthy kids, healthy people who treated me like I was just lazy. I put my head down and forged on, that’s all I could do. Not a single moment of my childhood was free of despair. Not a single moment of my life until now–has been happy. I’ve gone my entire life, dutifully waiting for Him to see fit to answer any of my questions, and he has stayed silent. I’ve fought tooth and nail for others’ spiritual well-being, without asking a single thing for it in return. I’ve been the best daughter you could ask for, and feel nothing but abandonment in return. At some point, you just have to pick yourself up and stop feeling victimized. That’s what I’m doing. I’ve given him my entire heart and soul, till now. My own family suffered a double-suicide when I was five. So since then, I’ve learned that there is a Hell and been very vigilant on what causes will send you there. Over time I’ve realized that even I who have lived for Him, cannot avoid doing something that will send me to Hell. The best and only answer I’ve gotten about this is that Jesus died horrifically on the cross for our sins. What about his servant who chose to be hanged on the cross upside down? Suffering the same fate only in my opinion worse? I’m positive that countless people on earth have died far more horrific deaths than Jesus did… And none of them were resurrected and put at a throne. Lots of them probably re-emerged in Hell? What kind loving God would do that to people? It’s not like he’s powerless to stop it. Oh he could, at any minute. He could squash Satan to a pulp, yes? Yes. Yet right now my brothers and sisters are burning and suffering for reasons I simply cannot justify.
Right now I’m leaning towards there being a God but that the one whom is portrayed in religion isn’t the real creator, and is sadly mis-represented. Either way if he does or doesn’t exist–I can’t figure out why such a being deserves me. Who am I to judge God? No one. But at the same time, I’m supposed to be everyone, and everything to him. The treatment I receive from him and the treatment he promises in the Bible, don’t add up and often times contradict themselves. What’s more is if I created something, I’d feel an obligation to tell them why and what will happen to them, and I definitely wouldn’t create them knowing they’ll suffer for eternity.
On the other hand, if God plans on saving everyone from Hell in the future: I find it insulting that he would make people fear such a fate at all. There’s no point, I don’t see any. This entire system of good and bad/winning and losing/ heaven and hell–is ridiculous to me. It’s clear there is good and evil. I choose to be good, and do good. For now that’s all I know. But as for God existing, I don’t seek to see him to know he’s real, but I do want to know I’m following the right God, and not just a figment of my imagination.
So please do send me your readings, I will read them. Send me your thoughts, I appreciate them. Send me any evidence you have and I will consider it with an open mind. Thank you for your time.
No, there isn’t a magic bullet, but I didn’t expect such. In honesty I have been raised since I could talk–with Jesus. No real religion, just a following of the Bible, with a mother who in her better years–was a minister. I went to a Christian school with Christian teachings for a bit, and my mom has and always will be Jesus’ biggest advocate. Throughout my illness, my family has had to rectify their beliefs in facing my mortality…And they’ve all chosen to believe in him and they all seem happier for it. I’m glad. I’m not happier, with him. I’m angrier and more desolate than I ever have been. The more I see and learn of the world, the more I experience and feel what life has to offer, the more frightening the prospect that there is a God not only condoning what happens by inaction–but also holding something over my head like eternal damnation. I haven’t done a single thing that deserves such treatment, and neither have any of you.
I’m 26 now. I’ve been in the darkest state of sadness and pain since I was 19. I’ve pulled myself out and here I am, and yes I do have to admit I’m quite angry with God. Since childhood I’ve been nothing but abused by man, and left in quiet silence when it comes to God. I’ve suffered illness since being born–hell, the day I was born I was being choked by my own biology. I grew up fighting and trying to keep up with healthy kids, healthy people who treated me like I was just lazy. I put my head down and forged on, that’s all I could do. Not a single moment of my childhood was free of despair. Not a single moment of my life until now–has been happy. I’ve gone my entire life, dutifully waiting for Him to see fit to answer any of my questions, and he has stayed silent. I’ve fought tooth and nail for others’ spiritual well-being, without asking a single thing for it in return. I’ve been the best daughter you could ask for, and feel nothing but abandonment in return. At some point, you just have to pick yourself up and stop feeling victimized. That’s what I’m doing. I’ve given him my entire heart and soul, till now. My own family suffered a double-suicide when I was five. So since then, I’ve learned that there is a Hell and been very vigilant on what causes will send you there. Over time I’ve realized that even I who have lived for Him, cannot avoid doing something that will send me to Hell. The best and only answer I’ve gotten about this is that Jesus died horrifically on the cross for our sins. What about his servant who chose to be hanged on the cross upside down? Suffering the same fate only in my opinion worse? I’m positive that countless people on earth have died far more horrific deaths than Jesus did… And none of them were resurrected and put at a throne. Lots of them probably re-emerged in Hell? What kind loving God would do that to people? It’s not like he’s powerless to stop it. Oh he could, at any minute. He could squash Satan to a pulp, yes? Yes. Yet right now my brothers and sisters are burning and suffering for reasons I simply cannot justify.
Right now I’m leaning towards there being a God but that the one whom is portrayed in religion isn’t the real creator, and is sadly mis-represented. Either way if he does or doesn’t exist–I can’t figure out why such a being deserves me. Who am I to judge God? No one. But at the same time, I’m supposed to be everyone, and everything to him. The treatment I receive from him and the treatment he promises in the Bible, don’t add up and often times contradict themselves. What’s more is if I created something, I’d feel an obligation to tell them why and what will happen to them, and I definitely wouldn’t create them knowing they’ll suffer for eternity.
On the other hand, if God plans on saving everyone from Hell in the future: I find it insulting that he would make people fear such a fate at all. There’s no point, I don’t see any. This entire system of good and bad/winning and losing/ heaven and hell–is ridiculous to me. It’s clear there is good and evil. I choose to be good, and do good. For now that’s all I know. But as for God existing, I don’t seek to see him to know he’s real, but I do want to know I’m following the right God, and not just a figment of my imagination.
So please do send me your readings, I will read them. Send me your thoughts, I appreciate them. Send me any evidence you have and I will consider it with an open mind. Thank you for your time.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Miss Luckie,
You are a woman, a daughter, you have suffered and with the Bible you have found less than adequate answers…sometimes the Bible by itself without someone sharing understanding does not provde the answers you seek in spite of what some say…we are human and in the end we all need to know we are loved, we have been loved and will always be loved…
M
missluckie26
Guest
I know I posted already, but here’s the finished version of what I was trying to say–the forum wouldn’t let me edit it
Thank you all for your replies, I have alot to re-read and contemplate. When I do, I’ll surely post back here…
No, there isn’t a magic bullet, but I didn’t expect such. In honesty I have been raised since I could talk–with Jesus. No real religion, just a following of the Bible, with a mother who in her better years–was a minister. I went to a Christian school with Christian teachings for a bit, and my mom has and always will be Jesus’ biggest advocate. Throughout my illness, my family has had to rectify their beliefs in facing my mortality…And they’ve all chosen to believe in him and they all seem happier for it. I’m glad. I’m not happier, with him. I’m angrier and more desolate than I ever have been. The more I see and learn of the world, the more I experience and feel what life has to offer, the more frightening the prospect that there is a God not only condoning what happens by inaction–but also holding something over my head like eternal damnation. I haven’t done a single thing that deserves such treatment, and neither have any of you.
I’m 26 now. I’ve been in the darkest state of sadness and pain since I was 19. I’ve pulled myself out and here I am, and yes I do have to admit I’m quite angry with God. Since childhood I’ve been nothing but abused by man, and left in quiet silence when it comes to God. I’ve suffered illness since being born–hell, the day I was born I was being choked by my own biology. I grew up fighting and trying to keep up with healthy kids, healthy people who treated me like I was just lazy. I was molested, raped, mentally abused, abandoned, torn out of my life constantly, and still I put my head down and forged on, that’s all I could do. Not a single moment of my childhood was free of despair or pain. Not a single moment of my life until now–has been happy, despite the pain. I’ve gone my entire life, dutifully waiting for Him to see fit to answer any of my questions, and he has stayed silent. I’ve fought tooth and nail for others’ spiritual well-being, without asking a single thing for it in return. I’ve been the best daughter you could ask for, and feel nothing but abandonment in return.
At some point, you just have to pick yourself up and stop feeling victimized. That’s what I’m doing. I’ve given him my entire heart and soul, till now. My own family suffered a double-suicide when I was five. So since then, I’ve learned that there is a Hell and been very vigilant on what causes will send you there. Over time I’ve realized that even I who have lived for Him, cannot avoid doing something that will send me to Hell. The best and only answer I’ve gotten about this is that Jesus died horrifically on the cross for our sins. What about his servant who chose to be hanged on the cross upside down? Suffering the same fate only in my opinion worse? I’m positive that countless people on earth have died far more horrific deaths than Jesus did… And none of them were resurrected and put at a throne. Lots of them probably re-emerged in Hell? What kind loving God would do that to people? It’s not like he’s powerless to stop it. Oh he could, at any minute. He could squash Satan to a pulp, yes? Yes. Yet right now my brothers and sisters are burning and suffering for reasons I simply cannot justify.
Right now I’m leaning towards there not being a God at all. Or there being a God but that the one whom is portrayed in religion isn’t the real creator, and is sadly mis-represented. Either way if he does or doesn’t exist–I can’t figure out why such a being deserves me. Who am I to judge God? No one. But at the same time, I’m supposed to be everyone, and everything to him. The treatment I receive from him and the treatment he promises in the Bible, don’t add up and often times contradict themselves. What’s more is if I created something, I’d feel an obligation to tell them why and what will happen to them, and I definitely wouldn’t create them knowing they’ll suffer for eternity.
On the other hand, if God plans on saving everyone from Hell in the future: I find it insulting that he would make people fear such a fate at all. There’s no point, I don’t see any. The fear of hell keeps some evil at bay but it’s also given cause for some of the greatest evils I’ve seen out there. This entire system of good and bad/winning and losing/ heaven and hell–is ridiculous to me. It’s clear there is good and evil. I choose to be good, and do good. For now that’s all I know. But as for God existing, I don’t seek to see physical evidence of him to know he’s real since I know it doesn’t exist, but I do want to know for damn sure that he deserves what I have to give. Evidence would be nice.
So please do send me your readings, I will read them. Send me your thoughts, I appreciate them. Send me any evidence you have and I will consider it with an open mind, without expectation that any of it will be any relevant honestly. Really, I’m looking for the big guns, for the real answers not just “Jesus died for you, be thankful,” or “there are no answers to your questions, seek them through him not us.” I’ve sought them through him and come to the place I’m at today. If God is truly God, then surely he has answers in his Bible to be found and if not, I’ll move on. Thank you for your time.
Thank you all for your replies, I have alot to re-read and contemplate. When I do, I’ll surely post back here…
No, there isn’t a magic bullet, but I didn’t expect such. In honesty I have been raised since I could talk–with Jesus. No real religion, just a following of the Bible, with a mother who in her better years–was a minister. I went to a Christian school with Christian teachings for a bit, and my mom has and always will be Jesus’ biggest advocate. Throughout my illness, my family has had to rectify their beliefs in facing my mortality…And they’ve all chosen to believe in him and they all seem happier for it. I’m glad. I’m not happier, with him. I’m angrier and more desolate than I ever have been. The more I see and learn of the world, the more I experience and feel what life has to offer, the more frightening the prospect that there is a God not only condoning what happens by inaction–but also holding something over my head like eternal damnation. I haven’t done a single thing that deserves such treatment, and neither have any of you.
I’m 26 now. I’ve been in the darkest state of sadness and pain since I was 19. I’ve pulled myself out and here I am, and yes I do have to admit I’m quite angry with God. Since childhood I’ve been nothing but abused by man, and left in quiet silence when it comes to God. I’ve suffered illness since being born–hell, the day I was born I was being choked by my own biology. I grew up fighting and trying to keep up with healthy kids, healthy people who treated me like I was just lazy. I was molested, raped, mentally abused, abandoned, torn out of my life constantly, and still I put my head down and forged on, that’s all I could do. Not a single moment of my childhood was free of despair or pain. Not a single moment of my life until now–has been happy, despite the pain. I’ve gone my entire life, dutifully waiting for Him to see fit to answer any of my questions, and he has stayed silent. I’ve fought tooth and nail for others’ spiritual well-being, without asking a single thing for it in return. I’ve been the best daughter you could ask for, and feel nothing but abandonment in return.
At some point, you just have to pick yourself up and stop feeling victimized. That’s what I’m doing. I’ve given him my entire heart and soul, till now. My own family suffered a double-suicide when I was five. So since then, I’ve learned that there is a Hell and been very vigilant on what causes will send you there. Over time I’ve realized that even I who have lived for Him, cannot avoid doing something that will send me to Hell. The best and only answer I’ve gotten about this is that Jesus died horrifically on the cross for our sins. What about his servant who chose to be hanged on the cross upside down? Suffering the same fate only in my opinion worse? I’m positive that countless people on earth have died far more horrific deaths than Jesus did… And none of them were resurrected and put at a throne. Lots of them probably re-emerged in Hell? What kind loving God would do that to people? It’s not like he’s powerless to stop it. Oh he could, at any minute. He could squash Satan to a pulp, yes? Yes. Yet right now my brothers and sisters are burning and suffering for reasons I simply cannot justify.
Right now I’m leaning towards there not being a God at all. Or there being a God but that the one whom is portrayed in religion isn’t the real creator, and is sadly mis-represented. Either way if he does or doesn’t exist–I can’t figure out why such a being deserves me. Who am I to judge God? No one. But at the same time, I’m supposed to be everyone, and everything to him. The treatment I receive from him and the treatment he promises in the Bible, don’t add up and often times contradict themselves. What’s more is if I created something, I’d feel an obligation to tell them why and what will happen to them, and I definitely wouldn’t create them knowing they’ll suffer for eternity.
On the other hand, if God plans on saving everyone from Hell in the future: I find it insulting that he would make people fear such a fate at all. There’s no point, I don’t see any. The fear of hell keeps some evil at bay but it’s also given cause for some of the greatest evils I’ve seen out there. This entire system of good and bad/winning and losing/ heaven and hell–is ridiculous to me. It’s clear there is good and evil. I choose to be good, and do good. For now that’s all I know. But as for God existing, I don’t seek to see physical evidence of him to know he’s real since I know it doesn’t exist, but I do want to know for damn sure that he deserves what I have to give. Evidence would be nice.
So please do send me your readings, I will read them. Send me your thoughts, I appreciate them. Send me any evidence you have and I will consider it with an open mind, without expectation that any of it will be any relevant honestly. Really, I’m looking for the big guns, for the real answers not just “Jesus died for you, be thankful,” or “there are no answers to your questions, seek them through him not us.” I’ve sought them through him and come to the place I’m at today. If God is truly God, then surely he has answers in his Bible to be found and if not, I’ll move on. Thank you for your time.
M
missluckie26
Guest
Here’s a some song lyrics to my past favorite song about God. The meaning has changed dramatically to me, but I like the message.
Listen children, to a story… that was written long ago
About a kingdom on a mountain, and the valley folk below
On the mountain was a treasure, buried deep beneath the stone
And the valley people swore they’d have it for their very own
So the people of the valley, sent a message up the hill
Asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they’d kill
Came an answer from the mountains, with our brothers we will share
All the riches of our kingdom, all the treasures buried there
Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end
There won’t be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away
So then the people of the valley, said mount your horses–draw your swords
And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward
They stood above the buried treasure, on the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it, “Peace on Earth” was all it said
Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end
There won’t be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away
And here’s my favorite poem from the past…
God never promised skies always blue, or flower-filled pathways all our lives through
God never promised sun without rain, joy without sorrow, or peace without pain.
But God did promise strength for the day, rest for the weary, and light for the way.
Grace for the trials, and help from above…Unending sympathy; Undying love.
As far as I went in my faith, which to be honest wasn’t far at all in comparison to many of you–I can still look back and wonder if God was really there the entire time and that is frightening beyond belief to me. Gives me cause to consider why I feel that way if he really was there.
Listen children, to a story… that was written long ago
About a kingdom on a mountain, and the valley folk below
On the mountain was a treasure, buried deep beneath the stone
And the valley people swore they’d have it for their very own
So the people of the valley, sent a message up the hill
Asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they’d kill
Came an answer from the mountains, with our brothers we will share
All the riches of our kingdom, all the treasures buried there
Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end
There won’t be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away
So then the people of the valley, said mount your horses–draw your swords
And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward
They stood above the buried treasure, on the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it, “Peace on Earth” was all it said
Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end
There won’t be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away
And here’s my favorite poem from the past…
God never promised skies always blue, or flower-filled pathways all our lives through
God never promised sun without rain, joy without sorrow, or peace without pain.
But God did promise strength for the day, rest for the weary, and light for the way.
Grace for the trials, and help from above…Unending sympathy; Undying love.
As far as I went in my faith, which to be honest wasn’t far at all in comparison to many of you–I can still look back and wonder if God was really there the entire time and that is frightening beyond belief to me. Gives me cause to consider why I feel that way if he really was there.
L
LegoGE1947
Guest
A great example of suffering other than Jesus, is His mother Mary, Think of this, she alone, besides Jesus, was without sin. That made her different from everyone else. She had to endure the taunts. She faced the real possibility of being executed for immoral behavior, yet her fiance’ Joseph was informed by an angel to take her as wife and not be afraid. She was hunted down like an animal and was forced to flee with her husband and newborn infant to another country. She was always the victim of others’ wrong-doings,I know I posted already, but here’s the finished version of what I was trying to say–the forum wouldn’t let me edit it
Thank you all for your replies, I have alot to re-read and contemplate. When I do, I’ll surely post back here…
No, there isn’t a magic bullet, but I didn’t expect such. In honesty I have been raised since I could talk–with Jesus. No real religion, just a following of the Bible, with a mother who in her better years–was a minister. I went to a Christian school with Christian teachings for a bit, and my mom has and always will be Jesus’ biggest advocate. Throughout my illness, my family has had to rectify their beliefs in facing my mortality…And they’ve all chosen to believe in him and they all seem happier for it. I’m glad. I’m not happier, with him. I’m angrier and more desolate than I ever have been. The more I see and learn of the world, the more I experience and feel what life has to offer, the more frightening the prospect that there is a God not only condoning what happens by inaction–but also holding something over my head like eternal damnation. I haven’t done a single thing that deserves such treatment, and neither have any of you.
I’m 26 now. I’ve been in the darkest state of sadness and pain since I was 19. I’ve pulled myself out and here I am, and yes I do have to admit I’m quite angry with God. Since childhood I’ve been nothing but abused by man, and left in quiet silence when it comes to God. I’ve suffered illness since being born–hell, the day I was born I was being choked by my own biology. I grew up fighting and trying to keep up with healthy kids, healthy people who treated me like I was just lazy. I was molested, raped, mentally abused, abandoned, torn out of my life constantly, and still I put my head down and forged on, that’s all I could do. Not a single moment of my childhood was free of despair or pain. Not a single moment of my life until now–has been happy, despite the pain. I’ve gone my entire life, dutifully waiting for Him to see fit to answer any of my questions, and he has stayed silent. I’ve fought tooth and nail for others’ spiritual well-being, without asking a single thing for it in return. I’ve been the best daughter you could ask for, and feel nothing but abandonment in return.
At some point, you just have to pick yourself up and stop feeling victimized. That’s what I’m doing. I’ve given him my entire heart and soul, till now. My own family suffered a double-suicide when I was five. So since then, I’ve learned that there is a Hell and been very vigilant on what causes will send you there. Over time I’ve realized that even I who have lived for Him, cannot avoid doing something that will send me to Hell. The best and only answer I’ve gotten about this is that Jesus died horrifically on the cross for our sins. What about his servant who chose to be hanged on the cross upside down? Suffering the same fate only in my opinion worse? I’m positive that countless people on earth have died far more horrific deaths than Jesus did… And none of them were resurrected and put at a throne. Lots of them probably re-emerged in Hell? What kind loving God would do that to people? It’s not like he’s powerless to stop it. Oh he could, at any minute. He could squash Satan to a pulp, yes? Yes. Yet right now my brothers and sisters are burning and suffering for reasons I simply cannot justify.
Right now I’m leaning towards there not being a God at all. Or there being a God but that the one whom is portrayed in religion isn’t the real creator, and is sadly mis-represented. Either way if he does or doesn’t exist–I can’t figure out why such a being deserves me. Who am I to judge God? No one. But at the same time, I’m supposed to be everyone, and everything to him. The treatment I receive from him and the treatment he promises in the Bible, don’t add up and often times contradict themselves. What’s more is if I created something, I’d feel an obligation to tell them why and what will happen to them, and I definitely wouldn’t create them knowing they’ll suffer for eternity.
On the other hand, if God plans on saving everyone from Hell in the future: I find it insulting that he would make people fear such a fate at all. There’s no point, I don’t see any. The fear of hell keeps some evil at bay but it’s also given cause for some of the greatest evils I’ve seen out there. This entire system of good and bad/winning and losing/ heaven and hell–is ridiculous to me. It’s clear there is good and evil. I choose to be good, and do good. For now that’s all I know. But as for God existing, I don’t seek to see physical evidence of him to know he’s real since I know it doesn’t exist, but I do want to know for damn sure that he deserves what I have to give. Evidence would be nice.
So please do send me your readings, I will read them. Send me your thoughts, I appreciate them. Send me any evidence you have and I will consider it with an open mind, without expectation that any of it will be any relevant honestly. Really, I’m looking for the big guns, for the real answers not just “Jesus died for you, be thankful,” or “there are no answers to your questions, seek them through him not us.” I’ve sought them through him and come to the place I’m at today. If God is truly God, then surely he has answers in his Bible to be found and if not, I’ll move on. Thank you for your time.
J
JamesATyler
Guest
Is God just? That is the question.
I found a site that has a few quotes about the subject from famous people. It is interesting.
takeonit.com/question/61.aspx
I found a site that has a few quotes about the subject from famous people. It is interesting.
takeonit.com/question/61.aspx
D
dskysmine
Guest
Without wanting to sound arrogant, it really sounds what you are looking for is a Saviour. Someone to heal your wounds and to give rest to your weary soul.
What you haven’t realized is that there is already One who suffered though Innocent He was at the hands of humans, just like you. One that came to save you from the thought that it makes no sense. One that screamed “My God why have you Forsaken me?”, just like you. Jesus Christ died so you could have eternal life, not because this life is less precious, but because it is precious and beautiful.
I don’t mean that the world is perfect, it is scarred by sin, since the beggining, but it is God that makes it perfect. Without God there is no sense, there is no why, there is only despair, void.
If you think that you need someone to heal your scars, then you have to let God in.
He is there to Save you, but you must ask Him to save you…
God bless you,
D.
J
JRKH
Guest
Your pain truly touches me and I wish that I could give answer to that pain or point you to some writing that likewise will give quick answer and comfort.
For myself - when I was away from the Church - confused and living a sinful life that only acknowledged God in ways convenient for me - I felt some of the same kinds of things you have expressed here.
When I - like you - began look into the matter more I only became more and more confused - like you…and for many of the same questions about evil and suffering…
Finally - I said to myself that if I were going to claim to be a follower of Jesus, I had better learn what Jesus says. So I went to the Gospels. I did not read the OT…nor the NT letters nor Revelation. I stuck with the Teachings of Christ as recorded in the four Gospels.
When I came to the passage in Mt 22:36-40 that reduced all of the Law to just two…Love God above all, and Love neighbor as myself…I felt that I had found a key to living. This did not answer all of my questions by a long shot…but it did give me a base from which to work.
The second thing that I noted in Jesus’ teaching is how little concern there is for things temporal. His focus is always on the life to come, not on this life. His many teachings that begin with “The kingdom of God is like…” (or something similar) speaks to a world view foreign to many in his audience - and just as foreign to many today.
I also found it interesting that Jesus speaks very little of damnation. The focus is not on “avoiding damnation” but on attaining heaven. I have always found this outlook to be tremendously helpful. Any of us - if we aspire to some worthwhile goal - do not dwell on the consequences of possible failure - nor do we concentrate on the pains that might be involved in achieving the goal. Instead, we concentrate on the reward and on the methods, disciplines, and sacrifices that are necessary to reach that goal.
As I continued my journey - I began to recognize the wisdom in seeing the Bible, not as a monolithic volume - to be equally applied in all ages, but rather as a testament to the growth of humanity and God’s desire to see us grow. The idea that God inspired the writers is certainly valid…but in that recognition must also dwell that the writer’s ability to communicate that inspiration is limited by the human faculty to understand. It’s even difficult for me to express what I mean. Let’s see if I can try though…
I will wager that you have had an “insight” that has hit you more or less instantaneously. Something we might call an “AHA moment”. Yet - though it only took an instant for God to plant that in you…if you tried to explain it to someone else, it would take many paragraphs and at the end they might even look at you like - “HUH???”
The same thing can be true for people writing the texts of Scripture and even for God Himself incarnate in Christ…how does one explain deep, profound truths using the limitations of language to a people of limited intellect…
God has tried to give us that which will provide the best answers to our questions…But they are answers like those given by a parent to a small child…fitted to the child’s capacity to understand.
See - I’m a perfect example of this…i can’t believe how much I’m writing just trying to convey to you some simple insights that I have received…
I guess that what I am suggesting to you is to not worry about the OT and to simply concentrate on the Gospels and what our Lord teaches.
I do hope that some of this might help.
Peace
James
For myself - when I was away from the Church - confused and living a sinful life that only acknowledged God in ways convenient for me - I felt some of the same kinds of things you have expressed here.
When I - like you - began look into the matter more I only became more and more confused - like you…and for many of the same questions about evil and suffering…
Finally - I said to myself that if I were going to claim to be a follower of Jesus, I had better learn what Jesus says. So I went to the Gospels. I did not read the OT…nor the NT letters nor Revelation. I stuck with the Teachings of Christ as recorded in the four Gospels.
When I came to the passage in Mt 22:36-40 that reduced all of the Law to just two…Love God above all, and Love neighbor as myself…I felt that I had found a key to living. This did not answer all of my questions by a long shot…but it did give me a base from which to work.
The second thing that I noted in Jesus’ teaching is how little concern there is for things temporal. His focus is always on the life to come, not on this life. His many teachings that begin with “The kingdom of God is like…” (or something similar) speaks to a world view foreign to many in his audience - and just as foreign to many today.
I also found it interesting that Jesus speaks very little of damnation. The focus is not on “avoiding damnation” but on attaining heaven. I have always found this outlook to be tremendously helpful. Any of us - if we aspire to some worthwhile goal - do not dwell on the consequences of possible failure - nor do we concentrate on the pains that might be involved in achieving the goal. Instead, we concentrate on the reward and on the methods, disciplines, and sacrifices that are necessary to reach that goal.
As I continued my journey - I began to recognize the wisdom in seeing the Bible, not as a monolithic volume - to be equally applied in all ages, but rather as a testament to the growth of humanity and God’s desire to see us grow. The idea that God inspired the writers is certainly valid…but in that recognition must also dwell that the writer’s ability to communicate that inspiration is limited by the human faculty to understand. It’s even difficult for me to express what I mean. Let’s see if I can try though…
I will wager that you have had an “insight” that has hit you more or less instantaneously. Something we might call an “AHA moment”. Yet - though it only took an instant for God to plant that in you…if you tried to explain it to someone else, it would take many paragraphs and at the end they might even look at you like - “HUH???”
The same thing can be true for people writing the texts of Scripture and even for God Himself incarnate in Christ…how does one explain deep, profound truths using the limitations of language to a people of limited intellect…
God has tried to give us that which will provide the best answers to our questions…But they are answers like those given by a parent to a small child…fitted to the child’s capacity to understand.
See - I’m a perfect example of this…i can’t believe how much I’m writing just trying to convey to you some simple insights that I have received…
I guess that what I am suggesting to you is to not worry about the OT and to simply concentrate on the Gospels and what our Lord teaches.
I do hope that some of this might help.
Peace
James
M
missluckie26
Guest
To be honest, you guys were completely and totally UNhelpful. I’ve read apologetics, watched youtube videos by ministers, read scriptures, talked to friends and family, asked god himself for an answer for Years, and I’ve concluded that I can be a good person, doing good things, and that has nothing to do with whether I believe in god and hell or not. I don’t capitalize god anymore because I’ve washed my hands clean of that influence completely, and the fact that no one here has any answers makes it all the more concrete in my mind. Seriously, no help. It’s sad, I expected a fight or something–that’s what the bible teaches you should have done and instead I got complacent answers about how I’m just seeking a Savior? I don’t need a savior, to live and breathe and be the beautiful person I am. I did need answers, as to why I’m supposedly being saved from a supposed being that supposedly has hell waiting for me at the end of my lifetime if I don’t get on my knees to him. So. Thanks, but no thanks, just wanted you to know how the end result turned out. And again, thanks for your time I did appreciate that. Time is valuable, after all…
J
JRKH
Guest
I’m sorry that we have been unable to help.
Since you had stated in your opening post, “If there is a God, I don’t want to know him anymore”, I’m afraid that you had us (well me at least) at a major disadvantage. It’s impossible to overcome a closed door.
Yes I know that you said you would look at things with an open mind…But I’m afraid that the above indicates a definite bias - - and don’t think that I mean that as a slap to you - we all have bias of one sort or another.
As for your seeming disappointment at us not putting up a fight…well frankly it is not our job to convert you. That is between you and God. All we can do is give you the best answers we can - present our testimony and pray that you see the validity of it.
At present you have not…So be it.
I pray that with time and healing you will come to recognize that - yes you can be a very good person without God - but that you will be able to be a so much better and more fulfilled person with God.
God loves you and so do we…
Peace
James
Since you had stated in your opening post, “If there is a God, I don’t want to know him anymore”, I’m afraid that you had us (well me at least) at a major disadvantage. It’s impossible to overcome a closed door.
Yes I know that you said you would look at things with an open mind…But I’m afraid that the above indicates a definite bias - - and don’t think that I mean that as a slap to you - we all have bias of one sort or another.
As for your seeming disappointment at us not putting up a fight…well frankly it is not our job to convert you. That is between you and God. All we can do is give you the best answers we can - present our testimony and pray that you see the validity of it.
At present you have not…So be it.
I pray that with time and healing you will come to recognize that - yes you can be a very good person without God - but that you will be able to be a so much better and more fulfilled person with God.
God loves you and so do we…
Peace
James
L
LegoGE1947
Guest
I too am sorry at your seeming diappointment with our responses…Being human we can only give what we have–which seems woefully inadequate in your eyes. We will not put up a fight. We can’t convert you (actually I can’t even convert myself–God had to do that!) As the other poster said, We can only pray that you’ll someday see the validity of what we have tried to do here and that you will give God another go!
Peace be with you
Glenn
W
wynnejj
Guest
The “One Tin Soldier” reference is an interesting one. Reading the poem, my first impression was maybe the Beverly Hillbillies theme song was reworked from some old Gospel song using the “One Tin Soldier” lyrics. I could almost sing the “One Tin Soldier” poem to the Beverly Hillbillies music. Then I googled and found out that it was an anti-war song insinuating that the Christians are hypocrites whose ulterior motives for war are materialism with a hollow victory signified by the symbol of one brightly colored, hollow, cheap metal, imperialist leaving the scene of useless destruction.
In my searches for what possible poetic images were to be conjured up with the “One Tin Soldier” reference, I came across an interesting Hans Christian Andersen story called “The Steadfast Tin Soldier”. To me, the story has many themes that seemed to related to this thread … fallen man as the imperfectly made tin soldier … the Devil … Love … vagaries of life’s journey … Jonah in the belly of a fish … being thrown into everlasting fire. So I submit this youtube video, which is quite good in its own right whether germane or not. It is worth a view just for grins.
The Steadfast Tin Soldier
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