Moral issue of going to a VERY wiccan house and a VERY wiccan "family" friend

[Mary_ann_R]

I have met some women who considered themselves to be wiccan’s. They were actually quite comical.

I like what the exorcist Father Amorth has to say.

“It is very difficult to perform a curse. You need to be a priest of Satan to do it properly. Of course, just as you can hire a killer if you need one, you can hire a male witch to utter a curse on your behalf. Most witches are frauds, but I am afraid some authentic ones do exist.”

You can find the rest of the interview with Father Amorth at this link.

 

[Cari]

OP, I have another suggestion (besides a hearty reiteration of the “DON’T GO NEAR THAT WOMAN” advice):

You clearly have a strong devotion to Our Lady. As Queen of the Angels, you can ask her to send some big, burly warrior angels to accompany your husband if he has to visit his friend’s mom. Ask her to send as many angels with him as he’ll need and be sure to pray the Precious Blood prayer on behalf of your husband while he’s there.

But yeah, stay as clear as you possibly can.

 

[sosayi1960]

Are you merely saying that humans create other humans. Sorry I don’t understand what you are saying. That’s ok, however I’m not accusing you of being a heretic.

What really is a heretic? I’m curious what the definition really means?
I guess all of us must be in some way or another. By the way is the Wiccan a good witch? Or a bad witch?

I really don’t know the difference, I’m from IOWAY

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Are you merely saying that humans create other humans. Sorry I don’t understand what you are saying. That’s ok, however I’m not accusing you of being a heretic.

Yes, but it’s a little more than that. The Father made us in His image. He made us, we make others in our image. We help form our destiny by creating evil or creating good. We don’t create it ex nihilo like He did and does.

It is through us that God’s plans unfold.

By the way, I know you’re not accusing me of being a heretic. Even if you did it doesn’t matter. I have tough skin

Peace…

MW

 

[EasterJoy]

I have met some women who considered themselves to be wiccan’s. They were actually quite comical.

I like what the exorcist Father Amorth has to say.

“It is very difficult to perform a curse. You need to be a priest of Satan to do it properly. Of course, just as you can hire a killer if you need one, you can hire a male witch to utter a curse on your behalf. Most witches are frauds, but I am afraid some authentic ones do exist.”

You can find the rest of the interview with Father Amorth at this link.

Since it is often a “denomination of one” or at least a “denomination of 25 or less, but with 30 opinions” kind of religion, it is impossible to make any hard-and-fast rules. Having said that, Wiccans aren’t Satanists. They’re essentially pantheists. Nature-worshippers, or people who hope to connect with the divine through nature-connected rituals.

Whether there are people out there with any dark powers to call their own, I couldn’t say. As for who the dark powers feel free to use at their whim, that is something else again. In our age, I don’t think they primarily make use of those who pretend to be witches.

As for “warlocks”, current Wiccans don’t like the term. They call male witches…witches. Apparently, the term warlock is used to refer to someone who goes outside their fold, or their understanding of right relation with the universal divine.

So maybe warlocks are kind of satanic in their bent…

As for priests of Satan, by my research the majority are people who feel some need to shock Christians, to take on a persona that glorifies “bad.” They want ordinary people to fear them, without any great effort on their own parts. They don’t seem to serve or worship anyone, save themselves…which is not to say they’re not totally mistaken about who’s ultimately calling their shots.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

What really is a heretic? I’m curious what the definition really means?
I guess all of us must be in some way or another. By the way is the Wiccan a good witch? Or a bad witch?

I really don’t know the difference, I’m from IOWAY

There are no good witches. That’s a lie from the Devil that he uses to deceive people. I can’t emphasize this enough.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I have met some women who considered themselves to be wiccan’s. They were actually quite comical.

I like what the exorcist Father Amorth has to say.

“It is very difficult to perform a curse. You need to be a priest of Satan to do it properly. Of course, just as you can hire a killer if you need one, you can hire a male witch to utter a curse on your behalf. Most witches are frauds, but I am afraid some authentic ones do exist.”

You can find the rest of the interview with Father Amorth at this link.

Father Amorth is wonderful. Just had to say that

Peace…

MW

 

[holdencaulfield]

What really is a heretic? I’m curious what the definition really means?
I guess all of us must be in some way or another. By the way is the Wiccan a good witch? Or a bad witch?

I really don’t know the difference, I’m from IOWAY

All witches are evil. There is no such thing as a good witch. This isn’t the Wizard of Oz.

A heretic is anyone who is opposed to Church teaching.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Father Amorth is wonderful. Just had to say that

Peace…

I think Father Amorth is wonderful, too!

 

[EasterJoy]

All witches are evil. There is no such thing as a good witch. This isn’t the Wizard of Oz.

A heretic is anyone who is opposed to Church teaching.

There are witches who do not have the intention of cooperating with evil. There are even witches who practice pantheism because they have been scandalized by how far, in their experience, Christian theology and practice are from each other.

We have to be careful how much we judge their heresy, when their heresy may not be entirely on their heads.

 

[holdencaulfield]

There are witches who do not have the intention of cooperating with evil. There are even witches who practice pantheism because they have been scandalized by how far, in their experience, Christian theology and practice are from each other.

We have to be careful how much we judge their heresy, when their heresy may not be entirely on their heads.

However pagan practices are evil. You can’t accidentally be a heretic, you either are or you are not. If you don’t know any better you can’t be a heretic.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

There are witches who do not have the intention of cooperating with evil. There are even witches who practice pantheism because they have been scandalized by how far, in their experience, Christian theology and practice are from each other.

We have to be careful how much we judge their heresy, when their heresy may not be entirely on their heads.

Whether they understand it or not, they are cooperating with evil by following pantheism, paganism or any other faith. Their heresy is on their own heads. If you stray from the Father by following other gods or by worshipping His creation, you are by default following evil.

There is no in-between.

“He who does not gather with me, scatters” (the Lord Jesus)

There are only children of the Devil and children of our Heavenly Father. There is no neutrality.

Peace…

MW

 

[holdencaulfield]

@Mystic Warrior:

Good post.

It should also be of note that most pagans who worship other “gods” are usually worshiping in reality demons.

 

[Cari]

. There are even witches who practice pantheism because they have been scandalized by how far, in their experience, Christian theology and practice are from each other.

I’m not picking on you, EasterJoy, since I assume this is something you’ve been told by witches, but it really is a pile of something stinky. Rejecting the Holy Trinity because most (naw, let’s be honest and say ALL) of It’s followers are sinful, and many times those sins are those of hypocrisy, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. That’s a juvenile response that makes them feel better about putting their will before God’s.

 

[holdencaulfield]

@Cari:

Good post.

 

[EasterJoy]

Whether they understand it or not, they are cooperating with evil by following pantheism, paganism or any other faith. Their heresy is on their own heads. If you stray from the Father by following other gods or by worshipping His creation, you are by default following evil.

There is no in-between.

“He who does not gather with me, scatters” (the Lord Jesus)

There are only children of the Devil and children of our Heavenly Father. There is no neutrality.

Peace…

MW

I’m not picking on you, EasterJoy, since I assume this is something you’ve been told by witches, but it really is a pile of something stinky. Rejecting the Holy Trinity because most (naw, let’s be honest and say ALL) of It’s followers are sinful, and many times those sins are those of hypocrisy, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. That’s a juvenile response that makes them feel better about putting their will before God’s.

I didn’t think you were picking on me, and I do understand where you’re coming from. I don’t subscribe to the “all religions are equal if you wuv everybody” myth.

Be that as it may, if the Wiccans a person meets show respect and love for each other, and the Christians that same person meets snipe at each other or are simply uncaring, do we think the Wiccans are going to take the whole toll for the unbelief of that person? That “He who does not gather with me, scatters” isn’t aimed at somebody else. The Gospels are for us.

It is like democracy and communism. It is when democracy fails that communism gains a foothold. The false has a rough time of it when the true isn’t in hiding. Who is to blame when that happens? Not just those who are sucked into communism’s lies by the scandal that democracy gave.

And where does that love and respect come from? The devil can’t supply that. There is nothing good that does not come from God. The Holy Spirit blows where he will. I think there are some dewdrops given to those who seek truly, even those who miss the Fountain. That isn’t relativism. That’s just evidence that God is compassionate upon the needy.

I only “defend” the Wiccans because no one is going to be won over when we deny what obvious good God gives them, as if God did not give it. Denying the truth never won anybody over. You have to recognize what part of the truth they have before you’re going to convince them that the whole truth you have to offer is real. It is a lie that they *knowingly *worship evil. You can’t start there.

You remember Paul, and his sermon to the Greeks, who worshipped “the unknown God”. This is what I’m getting at. To some Wiccans, the Gospel has been so obscured so as to be unknown, even though the words have been preached. Therefore, we preach the Gospel, yet hope for the future conversion of those who cannot see, because of our sin:

“You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious. For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, “To an Unknown God.” What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you…God has overlooked in times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people everywhere repent…” Acts 17:22-23,30

But back to the dilemma in this post: the home of that woman is not neutral territory. The OP has been given a sense of the peril that is there, and she should not let social convention talk her into ignoring it. That her friend may not know better does not mean that the OP doesn’t.

 

[GraceDK]

Whether they understand it or not, they are cooperating with evil by following pantheism, paganism or any other faith. Their heresy is on their own heads. If you stray from the Father by following other gods or by worshipping His creation, you are by default following evil.

There is no in-between.

“He who does not gather with me, scatters” (the Lord Jesus)

There are only children of the Devil and children of our Heavenly Father. There is no neutrality.

Peace…

MW

Good post.
I wish more people had the courage to state the obvious.
I assume we agree the no neutrality also counts for buddhism and islam and hinduism etc… these are just giant scale idolatries.
I get scared when I hear some Catholics say that we should not evangelise certain groups because they are monotheistic too… or we worship the same god (that one makes me shiver) or when people assume: that person behaves fairly well… so he does not need the blood of Christ but can be saved anyway. I think such a bargain versus the clear Word we have, that says that apart from Christ there is only a lie, is very dangerous.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

@Mystic Warrior:

Good post.

It should also be of note that most pagans who worship other “gods” are usually worshiping in reality demons.

Thanks. Absolutely - Pan, Isis and the whole lot of them are demons in disguise. I’ve had experience with those two entities and I can tell you they are full of darkness.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Good post.
I wish more people had the courage to state the obvious.
I assume we agree the no neutrality also counts for buddhism and islam and hinduism etc… these are just giant scale idolatries.
I get scared when I hear some Catholics say that we should not evangelise certain groups because they are monotheistic too… or we worship the same god (that one makes me shiver) or when people assume: that person behaves fairly well… so he does not need the blood of Christ but can be saved anyway. I think such a bargain versus the clear Word we have, that says that apart from Christ there is only a lie, is very dangerous.

Thanks.

Yes, it also counts for Buddhism, Islam and Hinduism. But, I must clarify about Buddhism. I don’t believe the Buddha was a demon. He was a human after all. He didn’t know Christ because he lived about 500 years before Him. His message was one of peace, compassion and kindness. So, while it was not a Godly religion, it was and is one filled with fruits of the Holy Spirit.

And actually, they don’t worship statues or follow false gods. Their culture is one in which bowing to a statue of the Buddha is out of reverence and respect, not worship. They deny any Creator, so it’s a bit different than Hinduism and Islam. They also don’t believe in any gods (historically), so it’s not a matter of worshipping demons or the Devil. It’s a matter of denying any outside influence.

In the grand scheme of the universe, there really is only two forces of good and evil. Good things come from God, evil from rebellion against God, whether consciously or unconsciously. We do not worship the same God as Islam. I will not accept that.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I didn’t think you were picking on me, and I do understand where you’re coming from. I don’t subscribe to the “all religions are equal if you wuv everybody” myth.

Be that as it may, if the Wiccans a person meets show respect and love for each other, and the Christians that same person meets snipe at each other or are simply uncaring, do we think the Wiccans are going to take the whole toll for the unbelief of that person? That “He who does not gather with me, scatters” isn’t aimed at somebody else. The Gospels are for us.

The Wiccans will have to answer for their betrayal of the ways of God, regardless of individual circumstances. We all have the choice for personal evil and good and will be judged individually for those actions. So, Wiccans would be judged fairly for the good things they have done.

But, their souls are still in peril, regardless of good works. Yes, that verse is for everybody. But, it’s not for us only. That would be senseless. The verse says what it says to all who hear it. If you don’t gather people into the Kingdom of God, then one is knowingly or unknowingly scattering the sheep. Pretty plain in my opinion.

It is like democracy and communism. It is when democracy fails that communism gains a foothold. The false has a rough time of it when the true isn’t in hiding. Who is to blame when that happens? Not just those who are sucked into communism’s lies by the scandal that democracy gave.

We are all to blame. Those who follow it and those who allow it. But, the more responsibility lies with those who follow it.

And where does that love and respect come from? The devil can’t supply that. There is nothing good that does not come from God. The Holy Spirit blows where he will. I think there are some dewdrops given to those who seek truly, even those who miss the Fountain. That isn’t relativism. That’s just evidence that God is compassionate upon the needy.

Even evil people can love and respect each other and their families and friends. But, true love and respect (which is unconditional) comes from the Father.

I only “defend” the Wiccans because no one is going to be won over when we deny what obvious good God gives them, as if God did not give it. Denying the truth never won anybody over. You have to recognize what part of the truth they have before you’re going to convince them that the whole truth you have to offer is real. It is a lie that they *knowingly *worship evil. You can’t start there.

God makes the sun shine on all people on the earth, yes. And we are all responsible for what is given to us. But, there are those who see what God has given and give God’s glory to creation or man instead of giving it to Him. That’s blatant and the responsibility lies with their own soul, not ours. That’s different than a group of villagers who never had the chance to hear the gospel. I don’t preach to those outside of Christianity. I share with them my experiences and plant a seed. God waters it.

You remember Paul, and his sermon to the Greeks, who worshipped “the unknown God”. This is what I’m getting at. To some Wiccans, the Gospel has been so obscured so as to be unknown, even though the words have been preached. Therefore, we preach the Gospel, yet hope for the future conversion of those who cannot see, because of our sin:

Modern Wiccans have no excuse. The Wiccans of today know the gospel. They choose to disregard it. There’s a lot of difference between those in Paul’s day who didn’t know Christ and the modern people who have heard the gospel.

“You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious. For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, “To an Unknown God.” What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you…God has overlooked in times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people everywhere repent…” Acts 17:22-23,30

See above.

But back to the dilemma in this post: the home of that woman is not neutral territory. The OP has been given a sense of the peril that is there, and she should not let social convention talk her into ignoring it. That her friend may not know better does not mean that the OP doesn’t.

Exactly.

Peace…

MW