Moral issues at work surrounding IVF

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Right - except we have the Decalogue and the Precepts of the Church. The former is written on the heart to a large extent… It is only in the most complex situations that the average person can begin to have blameless material sin. As for the latter, well, ecclesiastical law requires “the list” to be known.
 
The language isn’t sloppy. Full knowledge is defined, in the paragraph I quoted, as “knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law”. Nobody is asking anyone to have as much knowledge as angels.

Some people – Catholic people – simply don’t know that IVF is sinful.
 
Yes, it’s not a good definition… As if knowledge were a clear category. It’s not. There are better ways to define mortal sin - Thomas is a great help, as usual. Whatever that is done willfully which is contrary to the precepts indicated by the Decalogue (or, by extension, ecclesiastical law), is mortal sin.
 
kapp19 said:
Whatever that is done willfully which is contrary to the precepts indicated by the Decalogue (or, by extension, ecclesiastical law)
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This is exactly what the CCC says. What differs, or is unclear, about “knowledge of its opposition [of the act] to God’s law” ?

The bottom line stays the same : if you’re not aware it’s a sin, your culpability is mitigated. There are indeed people who mistakenly think that IVF promotes life and thus is in line with God’s law – or at least not opposed to it.

If you’re interested in discussing this further, you should probably create a new thread; I’m afraid we’re beginning to derail this one.
 
OddBird said:
What differs, or is unclear, about “knowledge of its opposition [of the act] to God’s law” ?
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The difference is in the quality of the act itself being the measure, rather than an epistemic measure as the form (also - knowledge of the act itself as sin, or the genus or species of the act as sin, and in what sense?) - together with yet another very vague category, “freedom.” We are never fully free until we are in Heaven - are we? Frankly, this paragraph was a massive blunder on the part of the drafters of the CCC. It is useful in many situations as a formula - but in things like this, the seams start to burst.

No need for a new thread. I’ve said my piece.

-K
 
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I poorly stated myself - I mean that (purely) ecclesiastical law requires knowledge of itself in order to bind… although even there, there is possibility of carelessness in not bothering to know the law of the Church.
 
OP, what if the next time she brings up IVF, you said casually, “Oh, I thought that was against our religion” and just left it at that.
She would either say “what do you mean?”, and you could discuss it further, or she would say something that would indicate that she doesn’t care. Then you’d at least know whether she knows.
 
Unless OP has a friendship with the coworker and speaks outside of work, it should be left alone. Regardless of sharing the same faith, the workplace is not the arena to advise one on religious matters, unless prompted (and even then be cautious). This could easily lead to HR getting involved at the most, or at the least, unnecessary conflict with a colleague. If OP wants to offer an alternative method (as mentioned by another poster) without addressing IVF, that seems more sensible than attempting to catechise a coworker. I work with some Catholics that are all along the spectrum of Catholic belief and I just chill unless they ask me something regarding our shared faith.
 
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Prudence is a virtue. If this were your mother, sister, daughter, or best friend I could see tactfully and compassionately broaching the issue. However, it is imprudent to admonish your coworker regarding her fertility issues and IVF. Because you don’t have a close relationship with her, you are unlikely to have a positive impact. And, you would likely jeopardize your job.

Pray for her, and the repose of the souls of her little ones who were/are aborted along the way. If she ever asks your opinion, be compassionate and honest.
 
Is it surprising that this lady is an EMHC, and also flaunting how she’s doing IVF? How do Catholics not know that IVF is not okay with the church?
 
As much as I appreciate all the answers, it seems what I said is being misconstrued and I am not really sure why. I was simply just wanting to identify she attends the non-traditional Mass. That’s it. I did not say ANYTHING bad about the Novus Ordo Mass. I did not say anything else. It is not an appropriate term to refer to the reformed Mass in this way. I’m sorry if anyone took offence to that but I had to clear this up.
 
We are all aware of the issues surrounding modernity within the CC and I felt it was appropriate to identify the Novus Ordo Church in this case. Is it not? What are we denying? I’m not going to argue the for an against between the Traditional Latin Mass and the Non-Traditional Mass, that is another and seperate topic altogether! I did say she distributes Communion so I found it fitting to identify the Novus Ordo Mass in this instance. Please, don’t make it a big deal.
 
The_Magdalene said:
We are all aware of the issues surrounding modernity within the CC and I felt it was appropriate to identify the Novus Ordo Church in this case. Is it not?
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In almost every case, it’s a distinction that does not need to be made unless we are explicitly talking about TLM. So, when someone makes this distinction, people wonder what motives are behind it.
 
TMC said:
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The_Magdalene:
Please share your thoughts.
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My honest thoughts are that I don’t see how this is any of your business.
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Sorry, I’m a bit confused by this part of your answer. That ending to an answer does not sound very charitable.
 
Yes, but I did not say anything negatively about the Novus Ordo Mass. I don’t believe that simply identifying it warrants an assumption that I am something negatively about the Novus Ordo Mass. It is a part of Church history whether we like it or not and if you have an issue with it, then I’m sorry. I identified it within my question because I said she distributes Communion. In the Traditional Latin Mass, this is not possible hence I did not want to cause confusion. That’s it. If I went on about how much of her issues is to do with Novus Mass, sure then that’s appropriate to think that was unnecessary but simply using just two words to identify a Mass, does not warrant assumptions against me that I am against the New Mass. My entire family attend the Latin Mass because it is the closest Mass to us.
 
TMC said:
My honest thoughts are that I don’t see how this is any of your business.
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It has became her business because her coworker unshamingly share what she is doing.

So it is pretty normal for her to be torn apart and facing moral dilemna over what to do.
 
For all people who see in this treat a problem with the identification of the Novus Ordo, I think the OP might have done it to prevent any polemic, because women don’t distribute eucharist in Traditionalist parishes.

But it is not the topic of this threat.
 
For your question OP, I would said, act as you feel is the more appropriate for you. And to consider the possible consequences for you too.

Many would said it would not change her mind, and that’s likely.
But your due is not to change her mind.
Maybe to tell the true may be enough. Her position in the Church is already a contradiction of her actions.
 
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