Moral issues at work surrounding IVF

  • Thread starter Thread starter The_Magdalene
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The_Magdalene said:
and if you have an issue with it, then I’m sorry.
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I don’t have an issue with it, per se. I think it was an unnecessary detail to add to your post, but I’m not bothered by it. The only assumption I made was that you probably attend the TLM exclusively.

I was just answering your question…
 
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That is your opinion. To me it was neither unnecessary or necessary to say because I said she distributes Communion at her Parish. You have taken it the wrong way.
 
The_Magdalene said:
Sorry, I’m a bit confused by this part of your answer. That ending to an answer does not sound very charitable.
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Seriously?

You asked for opinions. I gave mine. I don’t think it was uncharitable, and I am a little surprised that you are raising the issue of charity, given your original post.
 
Anicette said:
It has became her business because her coworker unshamingly share what she is doing.

So it is pretty normal for her to be torn apart and facing moral dilemna over what to do.
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No it did not. Do you think we should all spend our days pointing out the perceived sins of all those around us?
 
The_Magdalene said:
I was simply just wanting to identify she attends the non-traditional Mass. That’s it. I did not say ANYTHING bad about the Novus Ordo Mass.
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Using that term “Norvus Ordo Mass” is a disparaging way to refer to the “Ordinary Form”

A parish is not defined by which form of the Mass is celebrated there. One parish may celebrate both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form.
 
Agree with the sentiment that it is the colleague who may be violating workplace rules, i.e., discussing personal matters that make co-workers uncomfortable. OP should check her employee handbook, I suppose, for more specific guidance.
 
@ OddBird: “if you’re not aware it’s a sin, your culpability is mitigated” One’s culpability may be mitigated; I think there is a corresponding duty to know what one’s faith requires.

As to OP’s colleague, however, practically from the outside there is no way to know if in her particular circumstances her personal culpability in this specific factual context is mitigated or not; probably no one but a confessor/spiritual director and/or the Lord would really know.

I’m not sure which approach is truly more charitable, to assume she does know the teaching or that she does not know. Agreed that the events taking place in the workplace make a difference about OP’s decision to speak up or not; I’m just not sure how much and if it ultimately tips the scales to “against”.
 
choose_to_love said:
As to OP’s colleague, however, practically from the outside there is no way to know if in her particular circumstances her personal culpability in this specific factual context is mitigated or not; probably no one but a confessor/spiritual director and/or the Lord would really know.
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Agreed.
choose_to_love said:
I’m not sure which approach is truly more charitable, to assume she does know the teaching or that she does not know.
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The point of my post was to underline that infertility often is a source of suffering, stress, and marital tensions. While this doesn’t excuse sin, well-meaning people blundering into such complex and painful situations do not tend to help, and can even push someone further into the wrong direction. I think the charitable thing would be to pray for the coworker, and let her confessor deal with the sin.
 
And sometimes it’s necessary to experience trouble to achieve a certain end. In this case, it might be worth losing one’s job over if the colleague is prevented from sinning. It would be a judgement call the OP would have to make.
 
Two thoughts:
  • There was a brilliant article by Dr William Marshner of Christendom College (at least I think it was him, it was either Dr Marshner or Charles Rice, requiescat in pace) regarding how, even if you absolutely ensured that the only thing morally offensive about IVF was the act itself, IVF still could not be defended. It was beautifully argued — suppose a single egg is extracted, suppose the male element is obtained in a way that does not involve sin (e.g., needle extraction — ouch!), suppose only a single egg is fertilized, and so on — but the conclusion was that IVF cannot be moral. I wish I could find that article, but I cannot. It may have been in Christendom’s Common Faith newsletter, or somewhere else. If anyone has that article, please PM me and perhaps you could find a way to scan it and send it to me via CAF email.
  • The description of the parish as “Novus Ordo” may have been unwittingly gratuitous, but I think the point is worth making, that in a TLM environment, as a practical matter, pursuing IVF just wouldn’t be done. But then again, TLM parishes and chapels are largely self-selecting, that is, you are there because you want to be there, you have to make a conscious effort to be there, and adherents are well-informed enough about their faith, and have such a traditional sensus catholicus, that it would never even occur to them, to pursue something like this. As the TLM becomes more widespread, and grows in popularity, doubtless people will bring more and varied moral dilemmas with them, and things such as this may become issues. I came to know recently that couples approach the SSPX — the SSPX! — for marriage, yet they are living together, and the priest just begins the lessons anyway, in hopes that the couple will come to comprehend their sin in time. When I attended the SSPX (1980s), a couple living together would have either been given the boot, or would have received the mother of all cold shoulders and stink-eyes from their fellow adherents. They didn’t “play that” back in the day.
 
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Since women do not distribute Holy Communion in the Extraordinary Form, there is no need to mention it. It is too easy to misconstrue when people say “Novus Ordo X,” as someone critical of the Mass.

In response to your query - I must echo what some others have; this simply isn’t your business. Pray for your co-worker, and set a good example by your life.

Perhaps in the future she might be moved to confide in you for advice. She hasn’t done that yet.

Deacon Christopher
 
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