Moral Relativism and Genocide?

[Cari]

Help!
My brother, an avowed agnostic/athesist, wants to “talk religion” with me. Am trying to brace myself for the onslaught, and need help with this one, which I know he’s going to ask:

If the Church claims the fullness of the Truth, affirms that there is such a thing as eternal, unchanging right and wrong, and constantly denounces moral relativism, how come God either condones or outright commands genocide and slavery in the Old Testament? Even in the New Testament, slavery is tolerated, or at least not denounced, right?

I know there’s an explanation I can offer him, but I’m stumped. Particularly on the command God gave the Israelites to perform genocide in order to obtain Canaan.

I feel like I’ve got a handle of the whole role of women angle, but I’m lost on the other two.

This, of course, is assuming that I can even get past his “What makes you believe there IS a God” bit.

Atheists! :nope:

Thanks, I’ve been praying for him to experience a radical conversion of the heart, and I’d hate for some stupid answer of mine to drive him further away.

Cari

 

[jonk]

I love this quote by Mussolini. It’s good for its shock value, so it’s good to pull it out sometimes.

“Relativism is simply a fact . . . . Everything I have said and done in these last years is relativism . . . . If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth . . . then there is nothing more relativistic than Fascist attitudes and activity . . . . From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value . . . the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable.”

Regarding God commanding the Israelites to perform genocide, I hope someone else gives you a good answer, but here’s a few things to chew on:

God is the one Being who has the right to give as well as take life away, and despite the fact that it was a command given to humans, it was still an act of God. Nothing God does is evil. God chose to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because there were no righteous people there.

What were the people of Canaan like?

Deut 12.31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshipping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates…

Lev 18: I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices.

According to the site linked at the bottom of this post, the way in which the Canaanites worshipped their gods included:
Child sacrifice (with at least some of it in fire)
Incest
Bestiality
Homosexual practices
Cultic prostitution–both male and female.

Lev 20: The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: `Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.

Ps 106: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.

After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, “The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.” No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. (Deut 9.4)

Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. (Deut 18.12)

"`Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. (Lev 18.24-25)

This is where I got this stuff from

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[marcadam]

how come God either condones or outright commands genocide and slavery in the Old Testament? Even in the New Testament, slavery is tolerated, or at least not denounced, right?

Just searching here on CA I found this. I haven’t read it through yet, but it seems to cover the slavery question.

This kind of thing is difficult. May God be with you.

 

[jonk]

I found this very informative. It should help you on the Canaanite question.

 

[mlchance]

Hmm. I thought the Bible was just a collection of superstitious myths and fairy tales. Apparently that’s only true except when skeptics need at least parts of the Bible to be unerringly accurate in order to push their anti-religion agenda. How terribly confusing.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Nita]

The genocide in the OT is probably a tough point for most Christians to come to grips with. I don’t have a scholarly answer. Just going to share some thoughts that helped me when I was grappling with it.

Train of my thinking:
God is the father of all of us - Canaanites, Sodom and Gomorrahns, etc. included. We’re a family, God is the parent, earth is our home. When God decreed that someone’s life should be taken, it was like “kicking him out of the house”. I was married, with children, at the time. How, I thought, could I ever kick one of my children out of the house - I loved them so much. And as I pondered, I realized that circumstances could arise where I would do exactly that - remove them from our house. (Taking up drugs and trying to get the other children doing it; physically harming other family members; etc.) For the protection of the other children there could be circumstances where it would be necessary.

Spend some time pondering the fact that God is our father, we are the children, and earth is the house. Just imagine being God and looking down, seeing the behavior listed in jonk’s post. See the behavior taking place today!!! What parental steps would you take?

Told you this wasn’t going to be a scholarly answer - and doubt it would impress your brother at all since he doesn’t believe in God.

Nita