Moral Relativism

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Charlemagne_II said:
jonfawkes

So they don’t value the individual, they value group think.

Yes, Jesus and Paul did. You disagree?

CHRIST AND PAUL CALL FOR UNITY:

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou has sent me.” - John 17:20-21
“Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, one shepherd.” (John 10:16).

“I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you to walk worthily of the calling wherewith you were called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long suffering, forbearing one another in love; giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one Faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all” Saint Paul (Ephesians 4:2-6).

It is excess of pride and lack of humility that makes men go against Christ under the phony guise of “personal conscience.”
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So why argue for the dignity or respect for the one? It’s the group that matters.
 
davidv said:
If the “one” doesn’t matter, how can the group matter? It is just a collection of “ones”.
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They are expendable “ones”. Like cells of a body, you worry about the body, not each individual cell.
 
Before this thread closes, may I add a bit of charity.🙂

There is no real reason for the accusation of tearing Christianity to shreds. With a little bit of calming charity, one should be able to respond to “freedom of conscience” in relationship to relativism. We should also exercise charitableness by considering that others, including some Catholics, don’t always know absolutely all the implications of such terms as “conscience”. Please take a breath or two.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16 & 17

P.S. to Jonfawks. I will have to wait for calmer waters to get back to our discussion. On the other hand, judging by the tone of this thread, our discussion really doesn’t matter.:o
P.S. to Inocente. You brought up some interesting points a number of posts back. I’m sorry, but I need some peace, i.e., time out, in order to respond. Or maybe I will wait until another thread opens. 😦
 
granny

*There is no real reason for the accusation of tearing Christianity to shreds. *

Yes there is. Somebody tore it to shreds. It is because Christianity today is fragmented that Christianity is weak and the churches of Europe are nearly empty. There are Catholics also willing to tear Catholicism into shreds. Some of them are in this forum. It does no good to be in denial and run for the hills.

The Church of England is presently being torn in shreds. Is there no real reason to point that out? Is there no real reason to point out that the unity of Christendom is under fire more now than ever in history … with the possible exception of the 4th and 16th centuries?

Hence the triumph of moral relativism … every man deciding for himself what is right and what is wrong.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
granny

There is no real reason for the accusation of tearing Christianity to shreds.

Yes there is. Somebody tore it to shreds. It is because Christianity today is fragmented that Christianity is weak and the churches of Europe are nearly empty. There are Catholics also willing to tear Catholicism into shreds. Some of them are in this forum. It does no good to be in denial and run for the hills.

The Church of England is presently being torn in shreds. Is there no real reason to point that out? Is there no real reason to point out that the unity of Christendom is under fire more now than ever in history … with the possible exception of the 4th and 16th centuries?

Hence the triumph of moral relativism … every man deciding for himself what is right and what is wrong.
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Sounds like you lack faith that God is in charge. 🤷
 
jonfawkes said:
Sounds like you lack faith that God is in charge. 🤷
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God is in charge of a lot of things, but He is not in charge of your will. You are free to align your will to His and bring peace. Or you can go your own way and create chaos.

“Have a good day, or not, the choice is yours.” (a quote from a former principal of my kids high school)
 
jonfawkes said:
I think instead of mounting your head I will use it for a change dish, it will finally be filled with something.
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Yours has no trophy value. It’s already shrunk.😃
We do not deny the world, we are of the world. We don’t tell the world how it works, it tells us.
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Gee, you very nearly ‘got it’! Just a little bit more of an effort and you will be able to write “there are discernable objective laws which govern the world and influence our place in it.” Go on, give it a try. It wont hurt, I promise.
Tires work with friction, each tire works differently based on design. Friction doesn’t change, how it’s utilized does.
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I noticed you avpoided the sword analogy. Ready to fall on yours now? The tyres you mention work differently because the men who built them, as do swordsmiths using metallurgy, understand the underlying principles associated with tyre performance. Ever heard of centrifugal and centriputal force? It’s all about the objective laws of physics. Go on, admit it, there are heaps and heaps of objective laws that you don’t have the courage to admit they exist.
It does matter that you think you understand how morality works , you keep projecting. Try that with gravity, the result is the same, you fall on yer arse.
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You write as if morality is something that “just works”. It doesn’t ‘just work’. As with making swords and manufacturing tyres, the rational efforts of men are required to make morality work. It takes much enquiry and much effort and the lazy and selfish relativist just flings his hands in the air and says it’s all too hard. I notice also you have avoided the issue of “human nature” and the questions I posed. Too hard?
I’m going to go eat 😃
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Head to your local library and look up what and why the US Declaration says about certain objective matters. Your tummy will rumble a little less and your head might gain some trophy value. :rolleyes:
 
John21652 said:
Yours has no trophy value. It’s already shrunk.😃

Gee, you very nearly ‘got it’! Just a little bit more of an effort and you will be able to write “there are discernable objective laws which govern the world and influence our place in it.” Go on, give it a try. It wont hurt, I promise.

I noticed you avpoided the sword analogy. Ready to fall on yours now? The tyres you mention work differently because the men who built them, as do swordsmiths using metallurgy, understand the underlying principles associated with tyre performance. Ever heard of centrifugal and centriputal force? It’s all about the objective laws of physics. Go on, admit it, there are heaps and heaps of objective laws that you don’t have the courage to admit they exist.
You write as if morality is something that “just works”. It doesn’t ‘just work’. As with making swords and manufacturing tyres, the rational efforts of men are required to make morality work. It takes much enquiry and much effort and the lazy and selfish relativist just flings his hands in the air and says it’s all too hard. I notice also you have avoided the issue of “human nature” and the questions I posed. Too hard?

Head to your local library and look up what and why the US Declaration says about certain objective matters. Your tummy will rumble a little less and your head might gain some trophy value. :rolleyes:
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Sigh - you listen but don’t hear. Did someone take your ears? It devalues the head - shame.

The metal is objective, the process of metallurgy is subjective to what you are making, like a sword or a pot. You have to smelt the metal but you can’t make a katana using the process to make a broad sword, conversely true as well. They are different processes.

The “laws” of physics are the sum of our knowledge to this point. As our knowledge increases so does our understanding, as our understanding increases so does our application. Its a process. A process in the hands of humanity. Every society does it, Just as every society makes pots and swords to the best of their understanding.

Apparently you’re finished. 😉 no more work to be done, you have “absolute” answers 🤷 Are you Amish and scorn motorcars as well?

Maybe that’s what I do, shrink yer head down for the head of my stick shift. :cool:
 
davidv said:
God is in charge of a lot of things, but He is not in charge of your will. You are free to align your will to His and bring peace. Or you can go your own way and create chaos.

“Have a good day, or not, the choice is yours.” (a quote from a former principal of my kids high school)
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He’s not in charge of Christianity? :eek: That’s what he’s lamenting. Empty churches etc.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
granny

There is no real reason for the accusation of tearing Christianity to shreds.
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May I gently point you to post 1213 which has the complete reference which you deliberately directed to a specific person. Thus I pointed out that there was no real reason for this accusation.

No need for you to reply. I understood the rest of your post.
 
jonfawkes

Sounds like you lack faith that God is in charge.

God** is **in charge, but the devil foments mutiny! 😃
 
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