Morality of cage fighting?

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I just joined a mixed martial arts school a few months ago and we’ve been training hard all summer. Last month we had a meeting and set dates for several of us to fight in the cage. They assured me I would be ready and I agreed to do it. Since then, I’ve been training very hard to make sure I would be ready.

Then the other day I stopped by my parish rectory to ask about any spiritual aspects to consider with such a sport. The priest I talked to, a former Marine, in short told me it would be gravely sinful. WOAH! I was not expecting that! I was hoping to get a patron saint to pray to or something, not a condemnation!

He explained the principle that fighting is only permissible if there is sufficient reason to do so - and “for fun” doesn’t cut it.

The problem is that, although we talked for a long time, and it was long enough to convince me I shouldn’t go in the cage, I don’t have a clue how to break the news to all my trainers, the other students in the school, and all my friends who are planning to go to my fight! There’s at least three dozen people I know of expecting me to fight - almost none of whom are very religious. I really feel like I would be letting a lot of people down by backing out. I’ve got some serious stuff to contemplate over… please help me out!

Oh and Father also told me that even WATCHING a fight would be gravely sinful because it would be condoning such activity. That’s really quite disappointing since I’ve already got a vacation day scheduled to see some of our guys fight on August 1st and I was really looking forward to it.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
 
If you believe it’s sinful then that should be enough. I believe there is no sin between a fight two people consent to, nor do I believe watching boxing, MMA, wrestling, or Fight Club to be sinful.
Now going and getting into a fight with a stranger “for fun”? That’s different all together.
 
Thanks for the quick response.
If you believe it’s sinful then that should be enough
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I like that. That’s very true. The only problem is that I didn’t believe it to be sinful last week, so why the change? I guess I’m really asking for more solid reasons why I should believe it would be sinful - because I really don’t WANT to believe it’s sinful. But then, God’s Will is more important than mine, so what I really want is the Truth.

Father did make the distinction between watching real fighting or a movie. Movies are okay as long as the act can be faked. (This would go for any sin portrayed in a movie)
 
That’s a sin I am willing to do, that’s me, but my personal dignity/respect for the team is more important than me worrying about this. If you back down from this, they are going to think that you wasted their time and you back down because you were a wimp or something around that. You are going to lose a ton of respect from this as well.

If it’s a sin at the most it’s a venial sin, not a mortal sin.

However, I don’t believe its sinful, it’s not a fight-fight out of hate, but a competition in my eyes. I think your priest is kind of strange…
 
Jack17 said:
If you back down from this, they are going to think that you wasted their time and you back down because you were a wimp or something around that. You are going to lose a ton of respect from this as well.
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You don’t think I’ve considered all that? Your comments are NOT very helpful.
 
I don’t know what’s going on in your mind. If it’s not helpful then ignore it, but look at everything at all its angles (if there are any)
 
Fighting is about going beyond your own limits. You learn about you weaknesses and learn more about your own self in training and the fights. It’s no different from a sport, it is just more physical. You, have to constantly improve your skills. Who knows, maybe those skills of yours can end up saving a life. If it does, well tell your priest that, you didn’t fight, somebody would have died. There really is no counter to such an argument. And, its a good way to learn about actual self defence, a criminal won’t just go at you slowly, it’s going to be full blast. I encorage you to go back into the cage, and fight. You gain more than just the ability to fight.
 
Jack17 said:
That’s a sin I am willing to do, that’s me, but my personal dignity/respect for the team is more important than me worrying about this. If you back down from this, they are going to think that you wasted their time and you back down because you were a wimp or something around that. You are going to lose a ton of respect from this as well.

If it’s a sin at the most it’s a venial sin, not a mortal sin.

However, I don’t believe its sinful, it’s not a fight-fight out of hate, but a competition in my eyes. I think your priest is kind of strange…
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Jack, I am a martial artist as well (and a Catholic of course) and while I do not think that sport fighting is inherently sinful (though I am no moral theologian), your attitude is a very dangerous one to have. You would chose to sin against God before losing a little respect from men?? This doesn’t bother you?? I mean not to insult you but to slap you upside the head with brotherly charity - WAKE UP! Also, you do realize that by saying this you lose a significant amount of respect from your fellow Catholics right? Isn’t that what you were trying to avoid in the first place? You want someone’s respect? Seek it first with God, the rest is unimportant by comparison.

/slap (in a brotherly, MMA type of way…)
 
E.E.N.S said:
Jack, I am a martial artist as well (and a Catholic of course) and while I do not think that sport fighting is inherently sinful (though I am no moral theologian), your attitude is a very dangerous one to have. You would chose to sin against God before losing a little respect from men?? This doesn’t bother you?? I mean not to insult you but to slap you upside the head with brotherly charity - WAKE UP! Also, you do realize that by saying this you lose a significant amount of respect from your fellow Catholics right? Isn’t that what you were trying to avoid in the first place? You want someone’s respect? Seek it first with God, the rest is unimportant by comparison.

/slap (in a brotherly, MMA type of way…)
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In this case it is, that’s why I said this is a sin I am willing to do (since I don’t believe its a sin). Not in all cases. However, the team isn’t what is important, it’s more of letting them down sort deal.

I don’t care if I lose respect from you though or fellow Catholics, or anybody. I care about myself because that’s who I am going to see when I go to sleep. I stand by my word, and stick to it. If its wrong from the beginning I don’t do it.

I also do not need anybody’s respect but my own, and to me, not sticking to my word is losing respect to myself. If I say I am going to do it, I am going to do it.

I haven’t committed any grave sins that I know of yet because of this, so my attitude is okay. I am not seeking people’s respect, so I guess I worded it incorrectly when I meant the team’s respect, but its more for me.

Enough of my personal views though.
 
Here are my opinions, and they are no more than that.
  1. I don’t see any intrinsic difference between fighting in a cage and fighting in a ring.
  2. If the purpose of the fight is a test of athletic skill and strength, that’s one thing.
  3. If the fight is to deliberately inflict pain and cruelty for the entertainment of an audience, this is clearly sinful.
 
Rocko said:
I just joined a mixed martial arts school a few months ago and we’ve been training hard all summer. Last month we had a meeting and set dates for several of us to fight in the cage. They assured me I would be ready and I agreed to do it. Since then, I’ve been training very hard to make sure I would be ready.

Then the other day I stopped by my parish rectory to ask about any spiritual aspects to consider with such a sport. The priest I talked to, a former Marine, in short told me it would be gravely sinful. WOAH! I was not expecting that! I was hoping to get a patron saint to pray to or something, not a condemnation!

He explained the principle that fighting is only permissible if there is sufficient reason to do so - and “for fun” doesn’t cut it.

The problem is that, although we talked for a long time, and it was long enough to convince me I shouldn’t go in the cage, I don’t have a clue how to break the news to all my trainers, the other students in the school, and all my friends who are planning to go to my fight! There’s at least three dozen people I know of expecting me to fight - almost none of whom are very religious. I really feel like I would be letting a lot of people down by backing out. I’ve got some serious stuff to contemplate over… please help me out!

Oh and Father also told me that even WATCHING a fight would be gravely sinful because it would be condoning such activity. That’s really quite disappointing since I’ve already got a vacation day scheduled to see some of our guys fight on August 1st and I was really looking forward to it.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
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I’m no martial artist (even though the thought of being one really appeals to me very often :o) but I love watching both fictional and professional fights. Your priest strikes me as the type who just doesn’t like violence in general (most likely from his own experience). Still, I don’t believe violence cannot just be labeled sinful right off the bat. You have to do it on a case-to-case basis. In this case, there’s nothing wrong if you’re doing this to measure your skill. I can tell you seem pretty passionate about this and I know what it’s like to want to test it out via competition. There’s no harm in it all as long as you play fair and fight with honor and respect.

P.S.

Have you asked your priest if he has felt the same way with regards to boxing, fencing, and other more traditional martial arts competition?
 
Rocko said:
I just joined a mixed martial arts school a few months ago and we’ve been training hard all summer. Last month we had a meeting and set dates for several of us to fight in the cage. They assured me I would be ready and I agreed to do it. Since then, I’ve been training very hard to make sure I would be ready.

Then the other day I stopped by my parish rectory to ask about any spiritual aspects to consider with such a sport. The priest I talked to, a former Marine, in short told me it would be gravely sinful. WOAH! I was not expecting that! I was hoping to get a patron saint to pray to or something, not a condemnation!

He explained the principle that fighting is only permissible if there is sufficient reason to do so - and “for fun” doesn’t cut it.

The problem is that, although we talked for a long time, and it was long enough to convince me I shouldn’t go in the cage, I don’t have a clue how to break the news to all my trainers, the other students in the school, and all my friends who are planning to go to my fight! There’s at least three dozen people I know of expecting me to fight - almost none of whom are very religious. I really feel like I would be letting a lot of people down by backing out. I’ve got some serious stuff to contemplate over… please help me out!

Oh and Father also told me that even WATCHING a fight would be gravely sinful because it would be condoning such activity. That’s really quite disappointing since I’ve already got a vacation day scheduled to see some of our guys fight on August 1st and I was really looking forward to it.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
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Back in the day, before liberalism in the courts and in society emasculated the American male, the typical street cop came in many sizes, but they were all strong as a bull, tough as nails and would bust your head if you gave them any lip. To take a swing at one or to run was asking to go to jail via the hospital energency room. Many of these men were combat veterans from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. These men were the biggest reason society remained polite and relatively safe.

Unfortunately these kind of men who are characteristic of real manhood are still around but no longer welcome in police work. Mixed martial arts is a beautiful expression of the raw brute power and aggression that is necessary for the preservation of a civilized society and protection from foreign enemies in times of war. The cage is where this aspect of manhood is being preserved until the people have had enough of crime and terrorism.

Just my two cent’s worth.😉
 
The priest might imagine a MMA fight as some bloody no holds barred kind of match when nothing can be further from the truth. Boxing is way more bloody than MMA and has a much worse record when it comes to deaths and injuries, and yet most people are ok with it. Very few fights end with a knockout and most fighters are able to walk out of the ring after a fight - you can’t say the same for boxing. Most MMA fights resemble something closer to sex with two men writhing and grappling on the ground until one gets his opponent in a painful submission hold.
 
Thanks for all your responses everyone. Believe it or not, this is actually a pretty tough decision - especially considering all the responses I have so far. I must say I agree with most of you. It seems that as long as I fight with honor and respect and I do it for the purpose of testing my skills and learning new ones, then it should be alright. But I don’t want any doubts. I would need a clear mind when I step into the cage and the full support of everyone especially my parish priest. God’s Will is more important than my own.

So I think I should go back and talk to him some more… ASAP
 
Rocko said:
But I still welcome any more (name removed by moderator)ut!
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I think you are doing the right thing by making as sure as possible that you do not offend God. Whether MMA fights or immoral or not is one thing, but if you think they are and choose do proceed anyway because you would rather keep the respect of men over offending God then I think you’d be making a grave error.

IMO, a person with the right attitude wouldn’t be sinning by competing in MMA, but like I said before, I am no moral theologian. If you don’t end up getting an clear (or clear enough) answer from the Church, then go with your conscience…don’t worry about what your peers would think if you decided not to go, if they lose respect for you because of a decision like this, they aren’t worthy of your respect and you don’t need respect from people like that anyway.
 
Rocko said:
Thanks for the quick response.

I like that. That’s very true. The only problem is that I didn’t believe it to be sinful last week, so why the change? I guess I’m really asking for more solid reasons why I should believe it would be sinful - because I really don’t WANT to believe it’s sinful. But then, God’s Will is more important than mine, so what I really want is the Truth.

Father did make the distinction between watching real fighting or a movie. Movies are okay as long as the act can be faked. (This would go for any sin portrayed in a movie)
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Rocko,

My cousin is a poster here and has 4 pro fights now. He went through about the same thing you have so you might want to send him a PM. He doesn’t post here much anymore but lurks a good bit.

He is “pwrlftr”.
 
Rocko said:
Thanks for the quick response.

I like that. That’s very true. The only problem is that I didn’t believe it to be sinful last week, so why the change? I guess I’m really asking for more solid reasons why I should believe it would be sinful - because I really don’t WANT to believe it’s sinful. But then, God’s Will is more important than mine, so what I really want is the Truth.

Father did make the distinction between watching real fighting or a movie. Movies are okay as long as the act can be faked. (This would go for any sin portrayed in a movie)
Click to expand...
I’m just saying the best rule of thumb is to avoid doing this you see as immoral- that’s just common sense. But you seem to want different view points, so I gave mine.
 
Hey Rocko, I don’t understand your priests point of view. I’ll allow that cage fighting doesn’t have alot of rules. But it is a supervised sport. Not an actual fight. Which is what I think of when he talks about fighting being neccessary, say protecting yourself or loved ones.

But, having said that. You went to him for guidance, so why not take it. In the end, you’ll be better off for sticking to your principles.

Good luck.
 
tjm190 said:
I’m just saying the best rule of thumb is to avoid doing this you see as immoral- that’s just common sense. But you seem to want different view points, so I gave mine.
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Yes, I am open to different view points. I was just not expecting such an overwhelming acceptance of cage fighting on Catholic Forums - simply because of the overwhelming condemnation I got when I went to the rectory. First I talked to the secretary, and he gave me several reasons why it would be bad, then I talked to a volunteer lady and she basically begged me not to do it, then finally the priest. Consequently I am a bit surprised that the Catholic Forums would give me a different response.

So, yes I am open to different view points, but man I’m sure confused!
 
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