Morality of jobs and what am I supposed to DO for the rest of my days on this earth?

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Malcolm_McLean said:
“Customer service” means “manipulating customers”, of course.
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That is horribly unfair to those who strive to give their customers good service for all the right reasons. Not everyone who gives good service is out to “manipulate”. That’s just a horrible thing to say, and extremely misleading to the OP who is clearly looking for some direction. To imply that giving good customer service means that you must be prepared to compromise your principles is misleading at best if not down right slanderous to those who strive every single day of their lives to serve with a pure heart.

~Liza
 
Magicsilence said:
But this is reflective of a problem that Christians around the world have to face. Becoming monks can’t sort out everybody’s problems!!
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It was hyperbole. It was an illustration of the impracticality of your position. I’m afraid you’re going to have to adopt a “micro” viewpoint for the beginning of your career, until you prove yourself and become one of the decision-makers. At that point, you can begin to exercise influence. There are serious Catholics working and sanctifying themselves in every company in the world. They earn the right to influence the direction of the company as they advance through the ranks as ethical hard-working employees. You can do that, too. Don’t sit on the sidelines making excuses for why you can’t work for this or that company. As long as you stay away from Planned Parenthood, Victoria’s Secret and others whose business is itself unethical, you will be fine.

Betsy
 
Magicsilence said:
I know all this. But the goal of these monks is not money, but to survive through the use of money.
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That’s also the goal of the vast majority of businesses. You will realize this once you actually set foot in the day-to-day working world.

Sure, you will sometimes encounter a young buck (usually about 20 years old, or so) who thinks he’s going to become a millionaire by cheating widows and orphans out of their savings, but it’s a funny thing - after a certain age, you just don’t see those guys around, any more. 🤷
 
mercygate said:
Money is not intrinsically evil – the LOVE of money as a thing in itself, or as a means of wielding unjust power is evil. Money is not evil and the pursuit of it is a necessary fact of civilization.
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For the purpose of living, you are right, but what about when your boss pursues money for the sole purpose of being wealthy, and expects you to follow suit? Welcome to capitalism.
Even monasteries need to make money.
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This is a non-argument. Monasteries use money to live, not seek it for its own sake.
I have been in the work force for 40 years. In only 2 short jobs was I ever confronted with the expectation that I behave unethically. Since then, I have worked in medical education: I have never been expected to do anything that would compromise my Christian ethical code. In fact, I am the ethics police – overseeing the ethical conduct of research involving human and animal subjects where the researchers hold financial conflicts of interest with project sponsors.
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I really dislike it when someone reduces their faith to an ‘ethical code’. It is not a negative force.
Macro view? Gimme a break. Get a job – not in a casino or porn shop. Tithe. Deal with the ethics when you actually face a problem.
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I have listed about ten examples throughout the thread, do you care to respond to one of them?
 
puzzleannie said:
most businesses do not serve the devil directly or indirectly. yes most businesses do operate under a profit motive, so that the owners of the business, the shareholders, can reinvest in for enterprises which not only create jobs, increase the economic well-being of the country and its people, and supply necessary products and services.

I don’t know where you are getting your misinformation on the capitalist system, but you may want to take your remaining time in school to re-educate yourself if you expect this system to support you and your family in the future.
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This may be the spin you are getting from your politicians, but it ain’t reflective of corporate life.

And, until you’ve studied the subject yourself in some detail, isn’t it a little disingenuous to tell me to re-educate myself?

Could you at least have the courtesy to tell me why you think otherwise?
 
lizaanne said:
That is horribly unfair to those who strive to give their customers good service for all the right reasons. Not everyone who gives good service is out to “manipulate”. That’s just a horrible thing to say, and extremely misleading to the OP who is clearly looking for some direction. To imply that giving good customer service means that you must be prepared to compromise your principles is misleading at best if not down right slanderous to those who strive every single day of their lives to serve with a pure heart.

~Liza
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I think Malcolm was referring to the typical retail style jobs one would find in a busy shopping mall. It is not universal in its description, but provides a handy expose into the purpose of most retail jobs.
 
Magicsilence said:
And what about when someone wants to buy ‘a product’, but you can see they can’t afford it, and it will put them in real financial trouble? Your job obligation is to take their money anyway, right? To maximise profits at the expense of others. In a closed economy, if person ‘A’ wins, then by definition person ‘B’ loses.
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Actually, no. You are very incorrect. I am in a business-to-business sales environment. The products I sell benefit my customers, because it helps them improve their profits. It is a win-win, not a win-lose. For example, I sell automated equipment. A customer who is using a manual process greatly benefits, as their throughput and total capacity increase.

Also, if they can’t afford it, I don’t do business with them. Part of the sales process is qualifying your customer. If they don’t have the resources, you don’t engage with them as you can’t be certain they will pay.

Even in consumer sales, a Catholic salesman would not sell something to someone who doesn’t need it/can’t afford it. You have a flawed understanding of sales.
 
baltobetsy said:
It was hyperbole. It was an illustration of the impracticality of your position. I’m afraid you’re going to have to adopt a “micro” viewpoint for the beginning of your career, until you prove yourself and become one of the decision-makers. At that point, you can begin to exercise influence. There are serious Catholics working and sanctifying themselves in every company in the world. They earn the right to influence the direction of the company as they advance through the ranks as ethical hard-working employees. You can do that, too. Don’t sit on the sidelines making excuses for why you can’t work for this or that company. As long as you stay away from Planned Parenthood, Victoria’s Secret and others whose business is itself unethical, you will be fine.

Betsy
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This isn’t about avoiding a job. This is my pro-active move towards finding one that does not offend to the Lord.

You mention not working for Victoria’s secret because of the obvious moral problems. All I am trying to point out is that these moral problems exist within many businesses, but under a different guise. I want to know what everyone else is doing about it?

And again, it is not about being ‘ethical’’, although it is impossible enough to be ‘ethical’ and rise up the ranks in any major modern business. It is about being a Catholic and putting your faith before your job.

As Mr Burns (Simpsons) said: "If you want to succeed in business, forget three things ’ family, friends and religion’ "
 
Magicsilence said:
I think Malcolm was referring to the typical retail style jobs one would find in a busy shopping mall. It is not universal in its description, but provides a handy expose into the purpose of most retail jobs.
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The vast majority of retail workers are honest folks who are just trying to make a living. I have never encountered anyone in retail who even had the psychological skills to be able to manipulate me, never mind anyone attempting to do so. The contrary, if anything - sometimes I get the feeling that they come to work to go on their coffee breaks; not to actually sell me anything, even when I want them to. 😛
 
Magicsilence said:
As Mr Burns (Simpsons) said: "If you want to succeed in business, forget three things ’ family, friends and religion’ "
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Maybe you should go to business school, instead of getting your information from a cartoon TV show. :rolleyes:
 
rlg94086 said:
Actually, no. You are very incorrect. I am in a business-to-business sales environment. The products I sell benefit my customers, because it helps them improve their profits. It is a win-win, not a win-lose. For example, I sell automated equipment. A customer who is using a manual process greatly benefits, as their throughput and total capacity increase.

Also, if they can’t afford it, I don’t do business with them. Part of the sales process is qualifying your customer. If they don’t have the resources, you don’t engage with them as you can’t be certain they will pay.

Even in consumer sales, a Catholic salesman would not sell something to someone who doesn’t need it/can’t afford it. You have a flawed understanding of sales.
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I don’t understand you. You point out that what I said was possible (even if a Catholic salesman should not do it) -
Even in consumer sales, a Catholic salesman would not sell something to someone who doesn’t need it/can’t afford it.
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And then tell me I don’t understand sales:
You have a flawed understanding of sales
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Could you pick a position and stick with it, instead of dismissing me with an illogical comment.
 
Magicsilence said:
I don’t understand you. You point out that what I said was possible (even if a Catholic salesman should not do it) -
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The reason he should not do it is because he most likely would not get paid for the product. (If the customer has no money, then how is he going to pay for the product? 🤷 )

There is no contradiction.
 
jmcrae said:
The vast majority of retail workers are honest folks who are just trying to make a living. I have never encountered anyone in retail who even had the psychological skills to be able to manipulate me, never mind anyone attempting to do so. The contrary, if anything - sometimes I get the feeling that they come to work to go on their coffee breaks; not to actually sell me anything, even when I want them to. 😛
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Thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
jmcrae said:
The reason he should not do it is because he most likely would not get paid for the product. (If the customer has no money, then how is he going to pay for the product? 🤷 )

There is no contradiction.
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Credit? 👍
 
jmcrae said:
Credit card companies like to watch their bottom line, too. They aren’t likely to give out credit if it is not likely that they will get paid. 😉
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jmcrae, I get the feeling that you, puzzleannie and mercygate have a somewhat limited understanding on the dynamics of modern business within a capitalist environment.
 
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