Morality of Marijuana Use

[edwest2]

That’s not the point. People make laws that reflect the will of the people, and in some cases, the will of corporations. I still remember watching a meeting with heads of various tobacco companies and the government. They were asked if cigarettes were addictive, their unanimous answer was no.

As I wrote, I will vote against any harmful substance being sold legally (and believe me, I’ve already gotten the cough syrup and other legal drug arguments). I would also vote for alcohol prohibition.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Guldenat]

I completely respect your personal opinion that any potentially harmful substance should be illegally, Ed. I believe that to be a noble goal. However, the true purpose of this discussion is to discuss the morality of marijuana from a Catholic standpoint, as opposed to our own personal interpretations of scripture.

The Catholic Church is not opposed to alcohol. It is so unopposed that it is freely offered in it’s accidents during the summation of all Christian worship, The Mass.

The point I am making is, is it immoral. If it were an objectively harmful substance, then I would agree with you. However, in moderation, it is not harmful, and that is the crux of all this.

From an objective standpoint, marijuana is no worse then moderate amounts of unhealthy food, alcohol, or any number of other products we can mention.

 

[Soldier4Christ]

So again, why is marijuana automatically sinful?

Because it is illegal and we are required to obey our governing authority.

 

[melensdad]

"edwest2:

I will vote against any harmful substance being sold legally . . . I would also vote for alcohol prohibition.

Ed, we all know (or should know) that drinking whole milk, eating butter, bacon, cheese and other fatty products is a very serious health risk. In fact it is big agribusiness and lobbiest who underplay the issue. But the health implications are very clear, the stuff is VERY bad for your health. Will you also vote to ban butter, whole milk, cream, etc? Or do you pick and choose harmful substances based on socital acceptance and stigma? Is your will, or is the will of the people, reason enough to declare something moral or immoral?

Because it is illegal and we are required to obey our governing authority.

Are we required to obey unjust laws? There are nations in the world where smoking marijuana is legal, so is it a sin in those nations to smoke it?

I’m not a pot smoker, I have never smoked it, and I never intend to smoke it. I also don’t smoke cigarettes and never have. I’m just trying to understand the legal reasons for why marijuana is illegal, and therefore the moral reasons why it is sinful.​

When logic is applied to marijuana use, especially government regulated, taxed and controld marijuana use, it seems no different than alcohol, cigarettes or legal products and is probably safer than full fat dairy products which are far less healthy than people comprehend.

 

[dafalax]

The fact that pot effects people’s driving and operating heavy machinery is irrelevant. So do many types of cough medicine.

The Church makes no official stand on the use of marijuana.

Those saying that because the government says it’s wrong make is sin enough is also, to me, fallacious, because as I said, if the government were the litmus test of morality, then abortion would moral.

For people who think it should be illegal because it can ‘cause’ schizophrenia, this is a complete misunderstanding. Psychotropic drugs, like marijuana, do not cause schizophrenia, it accelerates people to having symptoms that are already latent schizophrenics, in other words, they already had the disorder, it simply had not manifested itself yet.

Also, as far as making a distinction between physical and psychological addiction, and that marijuana is bad because some people can be psychologically addicted, that seems to be rubbish, since anything from video games to eating chocolate to watching movies can be addictive in a psychological fashion. Alcohol can be both physically and psychologically addictive, and yet it is legal, and it should be legal (if it’s good enough for Jesus it’s good enough for me). The fact that some people misuse it, the fact that some people drive after smoking it is all irrelevant. Responsible, moderate use of pot is not harmful to the health anymore then eating 2 eggs a week is harmful.

The poster above this, Ed, plainly poses the question, “Ask yourself why do you use marijuana.” I plainly ask, “Why do you watch a football game, eat a bag of chips, or drink a beer?” Because they are enjoyable activities, and their is nothing wrong with any of them. Pot is like alcohol - you don’t have to use it until you pass out on the couch.

Once again I reiterate, pot in the United States is the universal exception to our legal system and human reason. We accept so many thing as being good if used in moderation, except for marijuana. Why? My contention is that we’ve all been told it is wrong for so long that we believe it, and the reasons for believing it are invented far later down the line.

Pot isn’t like eating a bag of chips and drinking beer while watching a football game. Eating chips does not impair one’s ability to operate machinery. Cough medicine does, but it also treats symptoms associated with cold and flu. Pot does not. There are already drugs on the market that treat the same symptoms “medical” marijuana does. The only reason people push for the legalization of medical marijuana is because they’re using it as a stepping stone for recreational marijuana legalization. You aren’t supposed to get drunk according to the Bible. Why would you be allowed to get high? Fornication is also an enjoyable activity for some. You’re going to need a better reason for allowing marijuana use than that. It affects your judgment. The Bible is against drunkenness for much the same reason. Why is getting high different? Try to answer without using the “we’ve been programmed to believe it’s bad” excuse.

 

[guanophore]

Okay, sorry, the addictive thing was a false assumption on my part, not being a drug user myself or a law enforcement officer who would know these things. But your points of marijuana not being safe, causing car accidents, its effects on people would be why authorities are acting in the common good in making it illegal. So to the original poster, this combined with my first post would be why the Church says using marijuana would be a sin - disobedience to authority.

Nice picture.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is addicting, and is the cause of far more health problems, accidents, and violence than marijuan ever was. Marijuana is classified as a schedule I drug, meaning it has a high potential for abuse, and no medical purpose. In the last 50 years, we have researched this drug extensively, and we know it is not classified properly by the DEA. Many places are now using it for medicinal purposes with good results. It also has the potential to be psychologically addicting, if not physically.

After your post, you can see an “edit” button at the bottom for 20 minutes you can use to make corrections.

You might find this thread of interest:

70.87.34.114/showthread.php?t=145861

 

[melensdad]

Pot isn’t like eating a bag of chips and drinking beer while watching a football game.

If eating chips, drinking beer and watching football are enjoyable and NOT sinful, then why would it be different to eat chips, smoke pot and watch football?

Eating chips does not impair one’s ability to operate machinery. Cough medicine does, but it also treats symptoms associated with cold and flu.

But beer/wine/whiskey/etc impare one’s ability to operate machinery and none of those treat symptoms of colds and flu.

There are already drugs on the market that treat the same symptoms “medical” marijuana does.

So what? This does not in any way invalidate the question. Nor does it discount the comparison to alcohol.

The only reason people push for the legalization of medical marijuana is because they’re using it as a stepping stone for recreational marijuana legalization.

Please site some proof of this statement because I have not even seen it brought up in this thread.

You aren’t supposed to get drunk according to the Bible. Why would you be allowed to get high?

Define drunk. Define high. Both alcohol and marijuana impare your senses. Even one glass of wine will impare you to some extent. If marijuana were controlled and legalized, the government could set standards and a marijuana “cigarette” could be allowed to contain the equivalent dose equal to 1 beer or 1 glass of wine. Is that the equivalent of getting drunk? Or is it just enough to relax you after dinner?

 

[chsngtailodogma]

melensdad for president

lol jk

i’m not an advocate of any drug. i mean, i would never suggest to someone that they should take a drug for anything. but i do think that marijuana should be legal, if for no other reason than putting people in prison/jail for so long, so often, over victimless crimes, it just breaks up families, makes it harder for people to get jobs (with their records), they fall into the wrong crowd, as necessary to find the marijuana, and it’s really not that bad of a drug in comparison to other illegal drugs (or some legal ones.) no one has ever died of a marijuana overdose ever in the history of man. how many people have died of alcoholism? there is even studies that suggest that marijuana somehow shrinks/prevents cancerous tumors. also it has been said that it can prevent and/or reverse alzheimers.<sp?> not to mention all the uses of hemp (even as a clean, inexpensive gas alternative)… i think that when you tally up all of the possibilities and risks, as a society we have more to gain from this drug than to fear. the comparison between alcohol and marijuana is ridiculous. i couldn’t logically explain why one is tolerated and not the other.

just MHO!

this is a very interesting debate! i’m loving it!

 

[Lorrie]

melensdad for president

lol jk

i’m not an advocate of any drug. i mean, i would never suggest to someone that they should take a drug for anything. but i do think that marijuana should be legal, if for no other reason than putting people in prison/jail for so long, so often, over victimless crimes, it just breaks up families, makes it harder for people to get jobs (with their records), they fall into the wrong crowd, as necessary to find the marijuana, and it’s really not that bad of a drug in comparison to other illegal drugs (or some legal ones.) no one has ever died of a marijuana overdose ever in the history of man. how many people have died of alcoholism? there is even studies that suggest that marijuana somehow shrinks/prevents cancerous tumors. also it has been said that it can prevent and/or reverse alzheimers.<sp?> not to mention all the uses of hemp (even as a clean, inexpensive gas alternative)… i think we have more to gain from this drug than to fear.

this is a very interesting debate! i’m loving it!

I agree with this.

I haven’t smoked pot in about 13 years, but I did smoke a LOT in my teenage years. I was never in any way addicted. I graduated high school with honors and I was high about 70% of the time. The only reason I stopped was because I was applying for jobs that required drug tests, not because it was illegal.

To say that marijuana is a “gateway drug” is a bunch of ****. I know a guy who has never smoked pot yet he is addicted to cocaine. If I smoke a joint I can drive. If I take a few shots of tequila I’m probably going to wreck from my head spinning.

 

[Guldenat]

Pot isn’t like eating a bag of chips and drinking beer while watching a football game. Eating chips does not impair one’s ability to operate machinery. Cough medicine does, but it also treats symptoms associated with cold and flu. Pot does not. There are already drugs on the market that treat the same symptoms “medical” marijuana does. The only reason people push for the legalization of medical marijuana is because they’re using it as a stepping stone for recreational marijuana legalization. You aren’t supposed to get drunk according to the Bible. Why would you be allowed to get high? Fornication is also an enjoyable activity for some. You’re going to need a better reason for allowing marijuana use than that. It affects your judgment. The Bible is against drunkenness for much the same reason. Why is getting high different? Try to answer without using the “we’ve been programmed to believe it’s bad” excuse.

You can use pot and not get completely trashed in the same way you can drink a beer and not get drunk. As I’ve said before, I’m not advocating people smoking until they are completely trashed and passing out on the couch. Moderation… it’s all about moderation. A person can smoke pot a little, get a buzz and be perfectly fine, and that simply would not be a sin.

Also, saying that people want to legalize marijuana for medical use is just a stepping stone… that may be true for some, but marijuana does have benefits that other drugs don’t. Thomas Hunter is a perfect example. He was using medicinal marijuana in california for nausea, which he was allowed to do by state law. Federal troops arrested him and threw him in jail. They gave him a different drug for his nausea which he took. He was later found dead in his jail cell having choked to death on his own vomit. Now, barring medicinal marijuana doesn’t sound very Christian, does it?

 

[melensdad]

melensdad for president
. . .
this is a very interesting debate! i’m loving it!

Uh, no thanks to the political nomination.

And I find myself in an odd situation here defending drugs, something that I generally oppose. I’m one of those few folks who actually never inhaled, all my friends did, and it was all over my fraternity house in college so I was certainly exposed to marijuana, its culture, and its consequences.

What I find is that most arguements are very much emotional and based on some sort of bias that seems to make little logical sense when compared to other similar drugs. Again, considering the arguements against guns, people cite all sorts of illogical suppositions and so I see that with arguments regarding marijuana.

Interestingly, the Harvard Law Review just published a new study, MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME. The study pretty much proves that honest citizens with guns are NOT a threat to society and in fact they help to make it safer. Funny, that fact was NOT plastered all over the news. I wonder why? Perhaps for the same reasons that we don’t see too many logic based discussions about the legalization of marijuana?

Why is a BLACK rifle bad and called an assault weapon while a PINK rifle is perfectly acceptable, even it is the same gun with only cosmetic differences? The gun laws, and the drug laws are often based on emotion and not fact!


Again, I’m in no way saying that marijuana is a safe, or good for you. But my friend, and parish priest, Fr. Peter and I have tipped back more than a few beers at gatherings or when we go out to dinner together. Alcohol, even in moderation, dulls the senses. I believe I am legally drunk if I have 2 drinks inside of 60 minutes according to my body mass and the alcohol laws here.

When I drink beer with my priest am I acting in an immoral way?

Is he?

Tobacco, something I only use when someone gives me a free cigar at a wedding or in celebration of a birth, tends to elevate the heart rate, yet provide a calming and relaxing state. It can also make you somewhat dizzy.

Now look at marijuana and please tell me, in a LOGICAL way, other than the legality, how is it so different from other commonly used drugs? Remove the illegal status and that removes the “gateway” drug stigma. Remove the illegal status and that also removes the criminal element and the inherant profits and violence used to protect the profits. Make it legal, regulate the dosage, tax it, and sell it like you sell tobacco or alcohol, to adults, with 1 “stick” equal to 1 or 2 “drinks” and it strikes me that it would eliminate a whole range of problems.

So, if I smoke a joint with my priest I may be breaking the law, but am I acting in some immoral manner?

Is he?

And all that said, how could it be immoral to use, IN MODERATION, marijuana if it is not already immoral to use other recreational drugs like tobacco and wine.

Also, please don’t throw out silly arguements that people would drive “high” or that they would stink up restaurants, etc. First off, people already drive high; both with alcohol and drugs and it is already illegal. So if they smoked some pot and drove AFTER it was legal then they would be subject to the same DUI laws they are currently subject to. And since cigarette/cigar smoking is already curtailed in public, it would be easy enough to suggest that a marijuana ‘cigarette’ would fall under the same smoking laws.

Imagine the reduced violence and the reduced street crime if marijuana were legal, controlled, taxed and regulated like liquor or tobacco.

 

[po18guy]

The point of drug use-any drug-is to obtain an effect. Serenity, excitement, euphoria and suppression of life’s troubles come to mind. These sit apart from the purely medical effects. Since a relationship with the Lord our God provides all of these in their own measure, does not drug use constitute a rejection of God? If your soul was not seeking these states, it would desire neither God nor drugs.

Since we may serve only one master, we are called to choose the one which leads to perfection rather than to perdition. God provides both for our spiritual and physical needs. Drug use attempts to address only the spiritual deficit, and imperfectly at that, as drugs wane away. Those who rely on drugs are in a constant state of searching, even after finding.

The rest of us were in the same state until we found the God who eliminates the need for all else. Our hearts were restless, until they rested in Him. Even in our relationship with God, we have need of more. Turn to the One who can always provide more when called on, and upon whom you cannot suffer an overdose.

As to legalization of drugs-alcohol was, at one time, illegal. It was then legalized, and that certainly caused no problems, did it?

May Christ’s peace be with you all.

 

[po18guy]

Imagine the reduced violence and the reduced street crime if marijuana were legal, controlled, taxed and regulated like liquor or tobacco.

Careful here, as these exact arguments brought us legalized abortion.

 

[Soldier4Christ]

Are we required to obey unjust laws? There are nations in the world where smoking marijuana is legal, so is it a sin in those nations to smoke it?

I think differences in laws in different countries may be due to cultural differences. Like alcohol - a lot of European countries don’t even have a drinking age. Teenagers will drink a an alcoholic beverage with dinner or something, or have a drink with friends, but they don’t have a problem with binge drinking like Americans have. Back when I was in high school we had a German exchange student and the first thing everyone asked was what the drinking age was, and they were amazed when he said it was 14 or something. The guy was 17 and when people asked him how often he got drunk or something he looked at them like they were stupid and asked why anybody would want to drink that much. He said it wasn’t a big deal in Germany. The same may go for things like marijuana. American culture in general is very impulsive, “I want some excitement right now!” without much thought to the possible consequences. If Americans could use marijuana legally we would have all kinds of problems with people using it excessively, just to get that immediate high. Those who really overdo it will end up needing medical treatment that they can’t pay for because they used their money on drugs, therefore all of us taxpayers pick up the bill. Why do so many people want to legalize marijuana anyway? I’ve never used it and don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything. I fail to see how making a substance like marijuana illegal is an unjust law. It’s a law that protects us all from the stupidity of some.

 

[melensdad]

The point of drug use-any drug-is to obtain an effect. . . Since we may serve only one master, we are called to choose the one which leads to perfection rather than to perdition. God provides both for our spiritual and physical needs. Drug use attempts to address only the spiritual deficit. . .

So are you saying that when my family has our parish priest over for dinner* (which we do)* or when we go out to a restaurant with our priest (again, something we do) and we have a drink or two (which we do) then are we being immoral? A simple YES or NO will suffice because I’m curious if my priest is an immoral person for drinking two or three beers.

I think differences in laws in different countries may be due to cultural differences. Like alcohol - a lot of European countries don’t even have a drinking age. . .The guy was 17 and when people asked him how often he got drunk or something he looked at them like they were stupid and asked why anybody would want to drink that much. . .

Still, in some nations, like Russia, the rate of alcoholism is quite high. So there are no hard rules on this, but I do believe you are correct that CULTURE is a big factor.

If Americans could use marijuana legally we would have all kinds of problems with people using it excessively, just to get that immediate high.

So if Americans can use something legally they will automatically abuse it? We can use alcohol legally and only a small % of the population abuses it. We have access to guns, yet less than 0.5% of them are used by criminals. Let’s be honest about marijuana, it is available in EVERY small town and big city and it is EASY to find. So if it was going to be abused in rampant fashion then it would already been a huge problem and a big drag on society today.

Those who really overdo it will end up needing medical treatment that they can’t pay for because they used their money on drugs, therefore all of us taxpayers pick up the bill.

Currently that is the case with all things that are abused. But what examples of marijuana abuse can be cited that are extreme? In fact, legalized, it should lower the price, even if taxed heavily like cigarettes. So legalized & taxed it would provide funding for health care, or other social programs.

Why do so many people want to legalize marijuana anyway? I’ve never used it and don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything.

Well I don’t care if it is legalized or not. I don’t use it, have not used it and don’t care to try it. But the question was posed if it is moral to use (note that the question was not is it moral to abuse). Clearly there is a legal component to the discussion of morality.

I fail to see how making a substance like marijuana illegal is an unjust law.

Again, compare it to other legal & moral to use products and try to be logical and consistent with the discussion. When logic is applied in a consistent way, across a series of similar drugs, then it is hard to justify marijuana laws as they exist in the US. Again, we must segregate the emotional components from the factual components.

 

[po18guy]

So are you saying that when my family has our parish priest over for dinner* (which we do)* or when we go out to a restaurant with our priest (again, something we do) and we have a drink or two (which we do) then are we being immoral? A simple YES or NO will suffice because I’m curious if my priest is an immoral person for drinking two or three beers…

Ask him.

 

[po18guy]

What if your priest wants to smoke a bowl? Come on, it’s just a little pot! What is the purpose of the alcohol/drug use. Everything hinges upon that. The body has no Minimum Daily Requiement of either alcohol or drugs-unless you’re addicted.

 

[melensdad]

"melensdad:

So are you saying that when my family has our parish priest over for dinner (which we do) or when we go out to a restaurant with our priest (again, something we do) and we have a drink or two (which we do) then are we being immoral? A simple YES or NO will suffice because I’m curious if my priest is an immoral person for drinking two or three beers.

Ask him.

Nice cop out

What if your priest wants to smoke a bowl? Come on, it’s just a little pot! What is the purpose of the alcohol/drug use. Everything hinges upon that.

Let’s presume that it was a social setting of adults. Let’s presume that everyone has a couple beers. Nobody is drunk but perhaps a few have a light buzz. That is apparently moral.

Now, let’s presume that its a social setting of adults. Let’s presume that every smokes a little pot. Nobody is “stoned” but perhaps a few have a light buzz. That is apparently immoral.

Why?

 

[Soldier4Christ]

So are you saying that when my family has our parish priest over for dinner* (which we do)* or when we go out to a restaurant with our priest (again, something we do) and we have a drink or two (which we do) then are we being immoral? A simple YES or NO will suffice because I’m curious if my priest is an immoral person for drinking two or three beers.

No - alcohol in moderation is not illegal.

We can use alcohol legally and only a small % of the population abuses it.

Not sure about that one…most people I know who drink, drink to get drunk on a regular basis.

Let’s be honest about marijuana, it is available in EVERY small town and big city and it is EASY to find. So if it was going to be abused in rampant fashion then it would already been a huge problem and a big drag on society today.

I’ve never seen the stuff myself. And if it was legal, a lot people who are curious about it but don’t do it because it is illegal and therefore immoral, would try it. Not saying all those who would try it would abuse it, but look at our culture and the rampant alcoholism I cited previously.

Well I don’t care if it is legalized or not. I don’t use it, have not used it and don’t care to try it. But the question was posed if it is moral to use (note that the question was not is it moral to abuse). Clearly there is a legal component to the discussion of morality.

IT IS ILLEGAL AND THEREFORE IMMORAL. There is no real reason for us to make it legal, knowing the negative effects it can have on people. There is no real benefit to making it legal.

 

[Guldenat]

I continually see posts hiding behind the law to make their arguments right. Christians, as I predicted in my FIRST post, go to the law to answer this question if marijuana is immoral or not.

I reiterate, for the upteenth time, that the government does NOT dictate morality. Just because something is a law, that does not mean it is a sin to break the law. Do you really think that is true? Honestly? Do you think the founding fathers of this country were sinning when they decided that enough is enough, and they should rebel? Is God really aggravated when you walk across the street in a place other than an intersection? Please, leave the law argument behind, because it’s not a valid issue concerning marijuana. The government makes a lot of laws; some of them are just and good, some of them aren’t. We are not required to follow all of them. If law had anything to do with morality, then abortion would be moral, because our government says so. Are all of you laying down and saying “Well, the law says it’s OK, therefore God says it’s OK”. Of course not, that’s a gross misinterpretation of scripture.

That said, how is smoking a joint different then drinking a beer? It isn’t.