Morality of marijuana

[Ghosty]

On purely moral grounds I don’t believe you can make an argument against marijuana that wouldn’t hold against alcohol. The fact is that, dosage aside, marijuana appears on all counts to be less harmful and less debilitating than alcohol.

The only real harm comes when young people use it chronically, people use it and try to drive, or people take more than they expect or can handle. These same things hold true for alcohol, plus many more things like diabetes and aggressive impluses that occur with alcohol but not pot.

Argue against it on civil grounds, but morally it appears impossible to rule it out without contradicting the permission of alcohol.

Peace and God bless!

 

[angell1]

Drinking can be a sin if one gets drunk. The sin can be mortal if one intended to get drunk.
So wouldn’t that translate to getting high? So who would smoke pot to NOT get high? And how do you dose it?

yeah, that’s the thing,

I think people will argue that it’s possible to smoke pot and not get high. same as having a beer with dinner, or something.

I’m trying to come up with a case against pot but not alcohol, but maybe there isn’t one.

or maybe there should be a case against both?

 

[boomerang]

yeah, that’s the thing,

I think people will argue that it’s possible to smoke pot and not get high. same as having a beer with dinner, or something.

I’m trying to come up with a case against pot but not alcohol, but maybe there isn’t one.

or maybe there should be a case against both?

If you want to make a case, it will have to be against both. Every argument you can make against marijuana can be made against alcohol, only alcohol is actually deadlier and contributes to more violent crime than pot does. It also kills innocent bystanders due to drunk driving. It is yet to be seen as to how many innocents will be killed by stoned drivers if marijuana use is widespread and common.

 

[cornbread_r2]

From the catechism:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The first paragraph seems to treat alcohol as just another substance, like food, that should not be used in excess.

The second paragraph seems to ignore the fact that alcohol is also a drug. If it’s true that alcohol is a drug, then according to 2291, its “use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.”

 

[ellam25]

Marijuana does not smoke itself or roll itself or light itself on fire… Taking the natural road here is nonsensical. it is or natural or healthy to put irritants in lungs via smoke. But to be fair alcohol is a poison…/QUOT

I don’t understand your reasoning…nothing ever happens on it’s own, you have to pit booze to your lips to drink it…ofncourse you have to do the same with weed. However I am saying that it is a plant, and untouched can be smoked and isn’t nearly as harmful or addictive as other things that are legal. Nobody has ever died from weed, but people die everyday from drinking themselves to death. Just saying

 

[cornbread_r2]

From the catechism:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The first paragraph seems to treat alcohol as just another substance, like food, that should not be used in excess.

The second paragraph seems to ignore the fact that alcohol is also a drug. If it’s true that alcohol is a drug that “inflicts very grave damage on human health and life”, then according to 2291, its “use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.”

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hoosier Daddy;13543737:

Marijuana does not smoke itself or roll itself or light itself on fire… Taking the natural road here is nonsensical. it is or natural or healthy to put irritants in lungs via smoke. But to be fair alcohol is a poison…[/QUOT

I don’t understand your reasoning…nothing ever happens on it’s own, you have to pit booze to your lips to drink it…ofncourse you have to do the same with weed. However I am saying that it is a plant, and untouched can be smoked and isn’t nearly as harmful or addictive as other things that are legal. Nobody has ever died from weed, but people die everyday from drinking themselves to death. Just saying

You are not making sense. People so die from weed. It being grown has nothing to do with its morality. Can you please tell my why pot is better than say shrooms or Cocaine or alchohol? I have never understood the defense of pot based on organic sensibilities. Perhaps it is because I am sober…

[/quote]

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

A mortal sin? Wow. That seems strong. So, should cigarette smoking be a mortal sin? I think it damages the body far worse.
I also think there are far worse chemicals than marijuana. The earlier posts regarding moderation in using ANY substance make sense to me, as long as it is not illegal.
Marijuana is legal in my state, although I have never felt the need to try it.

Here’s a quote from my husband I found interesting:
Put 100 drunk guys in a room and there will most likely be a fight. Put 100 guys smoking pot in a room and most likely they will order pizza and Cheetos.

The use of marijuana impairs our intellect and our wills, which makes it a mortal sin because the intellect is the greatest gift God has given us on the natural level. Alcohol can be moderated so that we are not affected at all or very little from it, but marijuana is quite different.

 

[ellam25]

ellam25;13544458:

You are not making sense. People so die from weed. It being grown has nothing to do with its morality. Can you please tell my why pot is better than say shrooms or Cocaine or alchohol? I have never understood the defense of pot based on organic sensibilities. Perhaps it is because I am sober…

Weed is legal where I’m at. Shrooms and cocaine are not. That right there is one reason. I Do know its not legal everywhere, but if it is I don’t see the issue. Also people die from drinking themselves to death and drowning in their own vomit… Whereas no one can really smoke themselves to death…not in one sitting a yway.

 

[Nelka]

I’ve just seen a huge stag party get on a plane at Heathrow bound for Canada.

 

[Dorothy]

Very sad is the fact that many use pot and/or alcohol as an escape. To seek the Lord in prayer, and all the other means He has given us, will truly bring us peace.

 

[Ghosty]

The use of marijuana impairs our intellect and our wills, which makes it a mortal sin because the intellect is the greatest gift God has given us on the natural level. Alcohol can be moderated so that we are not affected at all or very little from it, but marijuana is quite different.

Marijuana is not different from alcohol in terms of moderation. If one wants less of an effect, they can vape/smoke/ingest less marijuana. Furthermore, when it is legal and regulated, one can see how much THC and other substances are in the marijuana they’re purchasing.

Here in Seattle you can walk into a shop and ask the clerk for something that will get you lightly sedated, and they will ask you how much you have used in the past and what you plan to be doing while using. Based on that information they can recommend a dozen varieties and methods of consumption (eating, vaping, capsules, drinking, ect) to best suit your needs. They carry everything from pure CBD marijuana (no high, just pain relief) to very high THC strains (the equivalent to grain alcohol), and you will know which ones are which and how taking them in different ways will affect the experience. It is very much like going to a wine store as asking about red vs. white, Chianti vs. Cabernet.

In short, marijuana in a regulated environment is really no different from alcohol aside from being much, much safer. There is no mystery doses, no contamination with other illegal substances, and no money going directly into the hands of drug cartels. You still see people passed out on the side of the road from alcohol, but not from pot because it simply doesn’t have that effect.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Marijuana is not different from alcohol in terms of moderation. If one wants less of an effect, they can vape/smoke/ingest less marijuana. Furthermore, when it is legal and regulated, one can see how much THC and other substances are in the marijuana they’re purchasing.

Here in Seattle you can walk into a shop and ask the clerk for something that will get you lightly sedated, and they will ask you how much you have used in the past and what you plan to be doing while using. Based on that information they can recommend a dozen varieties and methods of consumption (eating, vaping, capsules, drinking, ect) to best suit your needs. They carry everything from pure CBD marijuana (no high, just pain relief) to very high THC strains (the equivalent to grain alcohol), and you will know which ones are which and how taking them in different ways will affect the experience. It is very much like going to a wine store as asking about red vs. white, Chianti vs. Cabernet.

In short, marijuana in a regulated environment is really no different from alcohol aside from being much, much safer. There is no mystery doses, no contamination with other illegal substances, and no money going directly into the hands of drug cartels. You still see people passed out on the side of the road from alcohol, but not from pot because it simply doesn’t have that effect.

Peace and God bless!

There is always ambiguity concerning the true amount of THC that is in marijuana even in legal stores, not to mention the amount of various other chemicals that can’t be regulated.

I have been around those that drink alcohol and those that take marijuana. The marijuana smokers become idiots after one use while the alcohol users retain reason until they have taken a large amount of alcohol. Where I am, there is a stark difference between the marijuana junkies and the alcohol drinkers. The junkies are a lot worse off than the alcohol drinkers, and some junkies get paralyzed when they use marijuana just once.

 

[Ghosty]

There is always ambiguity concerning the true amount of THC that is in marijuana even in legal stores, not to mention the amount of various other chemicals that can’t be regulated.

I have been around those that drink alcohol and those that take marijuana. The marijuana smokers become idiots after one use while the alcohol users retain reason until they have taken a large amount of alcohol. Where I am, there is a stark difference between the marijuana junkies and the alcohol drinkers. The junkies are a lot worse off than the alcohol drinkers, and some junkies get paralyzed when they use marijuana just once.

You haven’t been around an adult, moderate marijuana culture. That doesn’t mean it doean’t exist. You are making broad judgements and moral arguments based on incomplete information. I don’t know where you live, but marijuana is the same plant everywhere, and it is how it is used that makes the difference.

In previous eras it was literally impossible to know the alcohol content of different drinks beyond a broad assmption, and yet the Church never saw fit to say that drinking was immoral per se. It is unreasonable to argue that marijuana is immoral because it currently lacks precise tools for measuring THC content; the broad measure sufficed for alcohol, and it should suffice for marijuana. Indeed, it suffices quite nicely for regular, legal consumers of marijuana here in Seattle; the difference between a strong Purple Romulan and a moderate White Widow is quite noticable.

As for the argument that even the smallest amount of marijuana removes reason, it is patently false. Both research and personal experience demonstrate this. I have worked with people that use it medically, and I use it recreationally myself on occaision, and never once have I seen marijuana use alone impair reason. I’m sure that past a certain amount it does, but I have never personally seen it.

Peace and God bless!

 

[boomerang]

As for the argument that even the smallest amount of marijuana removes reason, it is patently false. Both research and personal experience demonstrate this. I have worked with people that use it medically, and I use it recreationally myself on occaision, and never once have I seen marijuana use alone impair reason. I’m sure that past a certain amount it does, but I have never personally seen it.

Peace and God bless!

When I ran a restaurant years ago, some of my employees would go home for lunch, smoke weed, and then come back to work. I never noticed any difference in their ability to work, high or sober.

 

[Ghosty]

When I ran a restaurant years ago, some of my employees would go home for lunch, smoke weed, and then come back to work. I never noticed any difference in their ability to work, high or sober.

Despite the “reefer madness” image that is presented as an argument against marijuana, my experience has been like yours. This isn’t to say that people should be going to work stoned without permission from their employer, nor that surgeons and pilots should work stoned.

It is interesting to note that at least one Federal study found that the use of marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol when driving, even below the legal limit. Alcohol impairs driving more, and makes people less aware of their impairment. Pot, on the other hand, made drivers overly cautious and slow, and they believed that they were more impaired than they actually were.

I want to stress that I’m not arguing that marijuana use is moral per se, simply that I haven’t seen any arguments against it that are both based on full information and don’t equally stand against alcohol. I’m in favor of legalization and regulation regardless of the morality because I believe it prevents greater social ills. I’ve been quite happy with the results of legalization so far, and there have been no aparent ill effects that I’m aware of. My area had decriminalization for quite some time, however, so moderate use was already entrenched in the culture; use is is quite different when people can casually use small amounts without fear.

Peaceand God bless!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

When I ran a restaurant years ago, some of my employees would go home for lunch, smoke weed, and then come back to work. I never noticed any difference in their ability to work, high or sober.

In the alchohol world that is called a functioning alchoholic. In the restraint world that is probably called “quality of employee”

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

You haven’t been around an adult, moderate marijuana culture. That doesn’t mean it doean’t exist. You are making broad judgements and moral arguments based on incomplete information. I don’t know where you live, but marijuana is the same plant everywhere, and it is how it is used that makes the difference.

In previous eras it was literally impossible to know the alcohol content of different drinks beyond a broad assmption, and yet the Church never saw fit to say that drinking was immoral per se. It is unreasonable to argue that marijuana is immoral because it currently lacks precise tools for measuring THC content; the broad measure sufficed for alcohol, and it should suffice for marijuana. Indeed, it suffices quite nicely for regular, legal consumers of marijuana here in Seattle; the difference between a strong Purple Romulan and a moderate White Widow is quite noticable.

As for the argument that even the smallest amount of marijuana removes reason, it is patently false. Both research and personal experience demonstrate this. I have worked with people that use it medically, and I use it recreationally myself on occaision, and never once have I seen marijuana use alone impair reason. I’m sure that past a certain amount it does, but I have never personally seen it.

Peace and God bless!

The people that I saw using the marijuana were adults that had it for “medical” reasons from their physician as well as illegal users, and there was not much difference in the effects. Dr. Taylor Marshall says that “it doesn’t just provide a buzz (like drinking two beers). Marijuana inhibits the intellect. I grant that it may not be as bad as being stone cold drunk, but it’s still a “high” that inhibits the intellect. From the point of view of Christian anthropology, it’s a slam dunk. Smoking marijuana is sinful to the extent that it inhibits the highest function of the soul… Alcohol is different because its effects can be graduated”.

 

[Ghosty]

The people that I saw using the marijuana were adults that had it for “medical” reasons from their physician as well as illegal users, and there was not much difference in the effects. Dr. Taylor Marshall says that “it doesn’t just provide a buzz (like drinking two beers). Marijuana inhibits the intellect. I grant that it may not be as bad as being stone cold drunk, but it’s still a “high” that inhibits the intellect. From the point of view of Christian anthropology, it’s a slam dunk. Smoking marijuana is sinful to the extent that it inhibits the highest function of the soul… Alcohol is different because its effects can be graduated”.

Anyone that says that marijuana effects can’t be graduated is absolutely wrong, full stop. Such a statement doesn’t even stand up to the barest scrutiny and experience with pot.

As for inhibiting the intellect, that is not the standard for moral judgement; the standard is the loss of reason, a very different thing entirely. A single glass of wine will impair anyones intellect by the very mechanism of alcohol, for example.

As for your experience, if you have only ever seen people become idiots after one use then you have never seen mature, moderate use, plain and simple. It doesn’t matter if the people were using it medically or illegally, they weren’t using it moderately. A person that has used a moderate amount will not seem impaired, even in prolonged conversation, to anyone that doesn’t know them extremely well, and even close friends may not not have a hint of their intoxication.

Such moderate use is extremely common around here, and has been since I was a kid. Now that pot is legal it is simply more open.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Anyone that says that marijuana effects can’t be graduated is absolutely wrong, full stop. Such a statement doesn’t even stand up to the barest scrutiny and experience with pot.

As for inhibiting the intellect, that is not the standard for moral judgement; the standard is the loss of reason, a very different thing entirely. A single glass of wine will impair anyones intellect by the very mechanism of alcohol, for example.

As for your experience, if you have only ever seen people become idiots after one use then you have never seen mature, moderate use, plain and simple. It doesn’t matter if the people were using it medically or illegally, they weren’t using it moderately. A person that has used a moderate amount will not seem impaired, even in prolonged conversation, to anyone that doesn’t know them extremely well, and even close friends may not not have a hint of their intoxication.

Such moderate use is extremely common around here, and has been since I was a kid. Now that pot is legal it is simply more open.

Peace and God bless!

Reason is a part of the intellect. From A Catholic Dictionary, “Broadly speaking, intellect is the faculty of thought. Under thought is included attention, judgment, reflection, … and the process of reasoning.” They may not outwardly appear to be affected by the marijuana, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t affected. I often have a hard time telling whether a close family member has become drunk, but they are drunk nonetheless. You can drink a glass of wine and not be affected at all, but just a bit of marijuana will affect someone’s mind considerably. If it is as harmless as it seems, then I don’t see why it has been so oppressed for so many years and taught so strictly against in schools and churches.

I am very glad that I don’t live in Washington.