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Regina7
Guest
The Church uses the word “serious.” So a serious financial concern, like not having enough money to feed children, is a valid reason.
Are you telling me that wanting the 3 children already here to have private education, college, cell phones, nice clothes (all things modern society deems necessary) constitutes a serious reason? Really?
1ke, while you claim OP leans towards being scrupulous (are you the scrupulous police?), going the opposite way is not prudent either.
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kozlosap
Guest
Private Catholic Education = YES
Bachelors Degree or Trade School = YES
Acceptable peripherals: = YES
Financial concerns are very valid and logical issues when a couple is deciding on family size. Yes, in the first half of the 20th Century, a low income family provider could have a family with seven kids, Food on the table, their own house, a car, and send the kids to Catholic schools. This is 2015 and that scenario would be very rare in the Real world.
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Regina7
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I guess I figured that kids can pay their own way through college. Most Catholic schools give free tuition to any child after #3 or #4, so that really isn’t a issue, especially since anyone serious about catholic schools can get help through the diocese or K of C.Private Catholic Education = YES
Bachelors Degree or Trade School = YES
Acceptable peripherals: = YES
Financial concerns are very valid and logical issues when a couple is deciding on family size. Yes, in the first half of the 20th Century, a low income family provider could have a family with seven kids, Food on the table, their own house, a car, and send the kids to Catholic schools. This is 2015 and that scenario would be very rare in the Real world.
I see more and more people stopping at kid #2 or #3 because having more children would mean giving up the yearly vacation and luxuries. (Note: I’m not talking about necessities, like food. )These don’t seem to be serious reasons,
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
This has never been true in any diocese I have lived in. Ever. And I have lived in or been part of 10 US diocese. So, no, not most Catholic schools do that. Not even close.
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kozlosap
Guest
Exactly! The tuition at the college prep boys High School in my neighborhood is $14,000 a year right now.
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pianistclare
Guest
I think it just happens, I have 2 daughters, one miscarriage in between,
We didn’t do anything to avoid children. We just didn’t have any more.
I think many people believe that if a couple are happily married the woman gets pregnant constantly. (not you of course, HD
). Just making an observation.We didn’t make a conscious “choice”. I just never got pregnant. My girls are 28 months apart. Good spacing. I believe God just wanted this for them and me.
There’s a family at church that just had their 9th. It’s a tradition in their family. Mom is the last of 10. They are clearly open and enthusiastic about a very large family. And God provides.
I think it’s also helpful to think that God doesn’t just take into consideration your finances or stress levels. I think He decides that this particular one of His children should be raised by you. But I suppose people will think that’s odd.
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Regina7
Guest
Really? It’s like that in the Chicago diocese (where I grew up) and the other dioceses near there. That’s really too bad. I thought that policy was always good to encourage large families to consider Catholic education.
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Corki
Guest
Me either. We have one high school that gives a discount if you have three kids enrolled (hard to have 3 all in high school for more than a year or two) and others discount siblings but none that give free tuition to multiple children.
My kids did go to one elementary school where the 5th (or more) child was free.
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Regina7
Guest
I have two children on earth and three saints in heaven. I’ve wanted a large family, but God doesn’t seem to agree at this point. Trusting God to handle our family size is hard and goes both ways. I have to accept that I may never have more biological children just like a woman who only “wants” two kids may have to accept that God has other plans. Who knows? Baby #8 may be the next pope.I think it just happens, I have 2 daughters, one miscarriage in between,
We didn’t do anything to avoid children. We just didn’t have any more.
I think many people believe that if a couple are happily married the woman gets pregnant constantly. (not you of course, HD
We didn’t make a conscious “choice”. I just never got pregnant. My girls are 28 months apart. Good spacing. I believe God just wanted this for them and me.
There’s a family at church that just had their 9th. It’s a tradition in their family. Mom is the last of 10. They are clearly open and enthusiastic about a very large family. And God provides.
I think it’s also helpful to think that God doesn’t just take into consideration your finances or stress levels. I think He decides that this particular one of His children should be raised by you. But I suppose people will think that’s odd.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You should look into it more. Rarely is that the case now in any diocese. Schools in my diocese offer just 10 percent off of tuition past 3 kids attending the same school. So, you see even if it is 3 or more kid discounts, they all have to attend the same school at the same time…
Thank God for Homeschool!
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Corki
Guest
Yes and it’s not a bad policy. But these days, even large families have a year or two between kids. That means that a large family won’t have 3 or 4 kids in the same school at the same time for more than a year or two of their K-12 time. It’s a nice benefit but it doesn’t have a long lasting impact on the family budget.
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Regina7
Guest
Homeschooling rocks! We went from Catholic school to homeschooling and have never regretted. Among many other things, it’s MUCH cheaper!
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LongingSoul
Guest
People probably say things about my family. I only have 3 children and my husband is a professional so we could easily afford more. I always wanted to have a large family before I married and still feel sentimental towards large families I know. (Except for those rarities that wear it as a badge of honour to look down their nose at smaller families… which I must add I don’t know any in real life.)
Very quickly into having children I became aware of the complete lack of motherly instincts I have and lack of confidence in myself. I always seemed to be the mother who was always up tending to my kids while the other mothers could relax in the confidence of having raised the ‘good’ kids. Of course all made sense when they arrived in primary school and 2 were promptly diagnosed on the autistic spectrum. It took me years to accept that diagnosis because back then 20 to 25 years ago, there were still many who thought it was just a cop out for bad mothering and I actually felt like a bad mother despite the constant efforts to do everything right.
I hate that others would judge me as a selfish breeder because to look from the outside, only having 3 and husband being a professional… we certainly wouldn’t meet some peoples standards. The thing is that noone knows what goes on behind closed doors. I functioned as best that I could to be normal but the truth is that I didn’t get a full nights uninterupted sleep for the first 14 years of children between the difficulties of having kids with autism.
I have no regrets having limited my family to just the 3 as I was able to focus my efforts on teaching my kids how to live. I feel relieved now that the two with the diagnosis are healthy contributing members of society with very little ‘disability’ left of note.
There is simply no way I would ever stand in judgement of others choices regarding their families. The Church has her guidelines for couples to follow in good conscience, not for others to judge them by.
I must add that we would have always accepted more children by Gods will since we do NFP which is inherently open to life.
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Ophelia23
Guest
I didn’t get this from 1ke’s post. I think that trying to create black and white situations that are serious vs. those that are not is a dangerous area of discussion. The level of a sin varies greatly on the person conducting the action–it is rarely black and white. The same can be said for determining serious reasons for birth regulation.
If conducted without ongoing discernment, prayer and an open heart, NFP becomes something other than its intent. This discernment belongs between a husband, a wife and perhaps their spiritual director and/or priest if necessary. It isn’t for us to conclude.
Finances can be a serious reason. Health can be a serious reason. There are numerous serious, valid reasons.
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pianistclare
Guest
Big families who desire a solid Catholic education tend to end up homeschooling.
Catholic education of low tuition and freebies, and deep discounts are a thing of the past in many parts of the country. Sad, but true. Big families are not going to have 8 cell phones. But then, do they need them? Probably not.
But…I digress. Back to the OP.
Catholic education of low tuition and freebies, and deep discounts are a thing of the past in many parts of the country. Sad, but true. Big families are not going to have 8 cell phones. But then, do they need them? Probably not.
But…I digress. Back to the OP.
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Regina7
Guest
I know this is still the case where I currently live. My kids were in Catholic school just two years ago. But it seems our diocese is the exception, not the rule.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Just to clarify, the free school is when you have more than 3 kids? Not three kids in the same school… Doubtful…
What diocese is it? I would like to look at the policy, perhaps it is something others could model
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Regina7
Guest
In the past six years, my kids attended two different Catholic schools in the diocese of Rockford, Illinois. Both schools had a policy that tuition after child #3 was free. I’m assuming this is diocese-wide and not just these two schools. Since both schools are pre-k- 8th, 11years of school, this has benefited numerous large families.
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1ke
Guest
“Seriis” in Latin conveys moral seriousness.
The Vatican translation also renders the Latin words “iustae…causae” as “well-grounded reasons.”
No, it does not have to be “not having enough money to feed children.” You are applying a meaning that the Church does NOT apply here.
They can’t be excluded. The couple must discern. The couple must also discern whether their reasons are in conformity with objective morality.
Weighty reasons are not trivial. They also are not what you are trying to imply with “grave”. Grave simply isn’t the word used in the Latin.
The OP has stated that she has a tendency towards scrupulosity. I am not making any judgments at all.
Perhaps this article will help you:
hprweb.com/2008/03/humanae-vitae-grave-motives-to-use-a-good-translation/
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