Morality without God?

[Publisher]

I thought it was the Abbot that authorised it but either way did the Pope condemn the murdering of all those people when he heard about it?

It was Pope Innocent III who called for and authorized the Cathar extemination. He authorize any French nobleman all the lands and wealth of the Cathar “heretics” if they would take up arms against them. The Albigensian Crusade was mass murder on a grand scale authorized by the chruch and it’s pope.

 

[PRmerger]

“Down righ evil”…the “Good Christians” as they were called. Thousands some estimate up to a million were brutally butchered, burned, slaughtered because of their religious beliefs.

Yes, that men can be evil is a fact of history.

They were no more “good Christians” than they were “good men.”

 

[PRmerger]

It was Pope Innocent III who called for and authorized the Cathar extemination. He authorize any French nobleman all the lands and wealth of the Cathar “heretics” if they would take up arms against them. The Albigensian Crusade was mass murder on a grand scale authorized by the chruch and it’s pope.

Source please. Something with the word “exterminate” or “extermination” is required.

 

[Publisher]

Yes, that men can be evil is a fact of history.

They were no more “good Christians” than they were “good men.”

Ahh, I see you didn’t understand the reference to “Good Christians”…that is what the Cathars were called by those not of their faith…Catharism was growing at leaps and bounds and threatened the Catholic heirarchy…that is why they were exterminated by the church…and quite brutally.

It was faithful Catholics, under church authority that joined the crusade and exterminated the Cathars.

 

[Bella92]

It was Pope Innocent III who called for and authorized the Cathar extemination. He authorize any French nobleman all the lands and wealth of the Cathar “heretics” if they would take up arms against them. The Albigensian Crusade was mass murder on a grand scale authorized by the chruch and it’s pope.

Soon as it can be shown a catholic did something bad, specially a Catholic pope, you’ll get the he wasn’t a real catholic lot out in force. That always happens. The pope probably believed he was doing what God wanted. Just goes to show there’s no such thing as infallibility because if the pope is infallible where morality is concerned he’d never have authorised this.

 

[PRmerger]

Ahh, I see you didn’t understand the reference to “Good Christians”…

I see, then. My bad.

It was faithful Catholics, under church authority that joined the crusade and exterminated the Cathars.

If they were under Church authority, please proffer the document that details the directions in which they were to exterminate these good Christians.

 

[PRmerger]

Soon as it can be shown a catholic did something bad, specially a Catholic pope, you’ll get the he wasn’t a real catholic lot out in force.

Actually, what you’ll get is this: yes, Catholic men are sinners.

And then we usually refer you to this:
[BIBLEDRB]John 18:15-27[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Fisha]

Well then, what was Jesus the Christ doing? Was He not here to save us from “religion”.
And you cannot have morality without God. He talks to everyone. Where would you find a place that did not have God or know about gods? Makes you ponder why did Saint Antony and the other desert monks lived out in the desert.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Bella

**Soon as it can be shown a catholic did something bad, specially a Catholic pope, you’ll get the he wasn’t a real catholic lot out in force. That always happens. The pope probably believed he was doing what God wanted. Just goes to show there’s no such thing as infallibility because if the pope is infallible where morality is concerned he’d never have authorised this. **

It’s pretty obvious why you are not a practicing Catholic. You were ill informed to begin with.
You do not even understand what infallibility means. No infallible doctrine is ever announced except ex cathedra. Campaigns against heretics are not ex cathedra.

 

[Bella92]

Actually, what you’ll get is this: yes, Catholic men are sinners.

And then we usually refer you to this:

I know I got it all the time. Got it when I lived at home. Got it from the nuns in school. Got it from my aunt who’s a nun. It doesn’t wash with me any more.

 

[Bella92]

It’s pretty obvious why you are not a practicing Catholic. You were ill informed to begin with.
You do not even understand what infallibility means. No infallible doctrine is ever announced except ex cathedra. Campaigns against heretics are not ex cathedra.

I know exactly what infallibility means and can give you the church definition word for word. I was brought up in a well informed practicing catholic home, and have religious relatives. I don’t buy the Orwellian double speak any more that’s all.

 

[PRmerger]

I know I got it all the time. Got it when I lived at home. Got it from the nuns in school. Got it from my aunt who’s a nun. It doesn’t wash with me any more.

That, Bella, is like saying, “I know you say that 2+2 =4. I got it all the time. Got it when I lived at home. Got it from the nuns in school. Got it from my aunt who’s a math teacher. It doesn’t wash with me anymore.”

You can deny truth, but, eventually, it comes back to bite you.

 

[Bella92]

You can deny truth, but, eventually, it comes back to bite you.

We’ll see.

 

[PRmerger]

Well then, what was Jesus the Christ doing? Was He not here to save us from “religion”.

No, Jesus was not here to save us from religion.

He came to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Bella

**I know exactly what infallibility means and can give you the church definition word for word. I was brought up in a well informed practicing catholic home, and have religious relatives. I don’t buy the Orwellian double speak any more that’s all. **

Orwellian doublespeak originated with George Orwell, whose novel Animal Farm was a ferocious satire on the cruel atheistic communism of the USSR (Russia), not the Vatican. So far as I know, Orwell never accused the popes of doublespeak. If you know otherwise, please cite your source.

Thanks.

 

[Fisha]

No, Jesus was not here to save us from religion.

He came to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

This is why I understand that people are not “practicing” Roman Catholics anymore.

Beware of scholars and scribes. Their egos are bigger than their knowledge of Christ the King.
Of course Jesus was the Pascal Lamb. He will take away the sins of those with contrite hearts who repent. For scholars, i’m not too sure he will take away their sins.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Fisha

**This is why I understand that people are not “practicing” Roman Catholics anymore.

Beware of scholars and scribes. Their egos are bigger than their knowledge of Christ the King.**

What scholars and scribes have you in mind?

My own belief is that Catholics who leave the Church leave for a variety of reasons, but certainly not one of them is that they are over-educated about their religion by scholars and scribes.

 

[PRmerger]

This is why I understand that people are not “practicing” Roman Catholics anymore.

Huh?

Beware of scholars and scribes. Their egos are bigger than their knowledge of Christ the King.

I would never presume to judge the size of anyone’s ego as compared to their knowledge of Christ.

Of course Jesus was the Pascal Lamb. He will take away the sins of those with contrite hearts who repent. For scholars, i’m not too sure he will take away their sins.

This is very Catholic of you to say, Fisha!

 

[Bella92]

Orwellian doublespeak originated with George Orwell, whose novel Animal Farm was a ferocious satire on the cruel atheistic communism of the USSR (Russia), not the Vatican. So far as I know, Orwell never accused the popes of doublespeak. If you know otherwise, please cite your source.

Thanks.

Thanks for what? I took English Lit. I read Animal Farm. I know where Orwellian comes from. I didn’t say Orwell accused the popes of anything did I? I’ve had the church double speak for so long now, I have no problem recognising it. That’s what I’m saying.

 

[Aloysium]

There are many twists and turns in our journey.
That feeling of connection with God that seems unbreakable, does so because of His love; it is from His end that it is unbreakable.
Without some guidance one can too easily mistake lies and illusions for sources of happiness.

Some people have had bad experiences in their dealings with the Church;
some need it as a foil, in seeking themselves.
To the individuals who out of a sense of justice want to diminish the Church, you should ensure that you are not leading people (including yourselves) astray.

My experience is that the Holy Spirit acts through the Church guiding us in our search for God.