Morality Without Religion?

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John Doran

the problem, of course, is that i don’t know what you’re talking about…
That’s O.K. Sometimes I also don’t know what I’m talking about.
 
Gilbert Keith:
That einstein refused to follow the mathematics of the Big Bang at first when it was proposed to him through LeMaitre.
Fine, but don’t you see that this actually proves that his agnosticism was of no consequence to his theories whatsoever?

His theory was able to produce results against his belief!

Just like Kant’s philosophy may produce results contrary to his Christian belief.
 
AnAtheist

*Fine, but don’t you see that this actually proves that his agnosticism was of no consequence to his theories whatsoever?
*
It proves no such thing. What’s proven is that LeMaitre’s openness to the idea of a finite created universe led him to overcome what Einstein was reluctant to accept … the idea of a finite expanding universe.
 
AnAtheist

Just like Kant’s philosophy may produce results contrary to his Christian belief.
Such as?
 
Gilbert Keith:
Where does the moral glue come from in a completely atheist society?
It does not suffice for the atheist to say simply: “Immanuel Kant and the Categorical Imperative.”
In the absence of God, there must not merely be the natural law, there must be an authority that promotes the natural law in the civil law. Where does this authority come from if every man is allowed to define his own morality? How does the state build consensus of what the laws should be without reference to an absolute standard? Without such a standard, without religion in alliance with the state **(**not controlling the state), who decides what the laws should be?
If a man says “I shall have as many wives as I like,” shall the law protect him? If a man says, sex with consenting children should be protected by law, shall the law protect him? If an abortionist says I want to kill unborn children, shall the state protect him and all the others just because they have separate moral codes from others. This is a recipe for collective madness.
So by what authority in a totally atheist state would laws of any kind be imposed on the masses at large that would make people more likely to adhere to the general code than to go against it with their own? The natural law and God together … to be sure.
As it was clearly shown through many historical cases atheistic ideologies in power exemplified the sum of all massacres and violations of human dignity. (Again: Atheistic ideologies in power always brought (and bring) into existence a kind of new creed and rituals, can be labeled as neo paganism, idolatry, etc, etc.).

Even agnostics as Charles Maurras recognized the high role the Catholic Church has to play regarding public morality (cfr. my #70).

What we have today? Kant? Natural law? Common good? Golden rule? Common moral values? Non.

Consider, for example, two modern theorists of important influence as Hans Kelsen (1881-1973) and Richard Rorty (1931-). In democracy majorities decide what morality is.

So the choice is clear, whatever religion or non religion you profess:

There is God, there is human nature, there is Truth, there are rights, common social goods and moral values before any Constitution and any State (thus Constitution and State only must recognize and defend them);

Or… Moral relativism, the rule of the strongest, the silent killing of the innocents, materialism at all costs. To sum it up: what we see all around the world. We have eyes, don’t we?
 
Gilbert Keith:
AnAtheist

*Fine, but don’t you see that this actually proves that his agnosticism was of no consequence to his theories whatsoever? *

It proves no such thing. What’s proven is that LeMaitre’s openness to the idea of a finite created universe led him to overcome what Einstein was reluctant to accept … the idea of a finite expanding universe.
Hello? Using Einstein’s theory!
 
Gilbert Keith:
AnAtheist

Just like Kant’s philosophy may produce results contrary to his Christian belief.
Such as?
Such as a society based on a godless morality. In that case you are like Einstein, you don’t want to accept a certain outcome of a theory, although you don’t deny the theory. Like the natural law.
 
We have seen legislative views such as abortion spread because of believing in morality above religion. They said it was immoral to allow women to go to the back streets for an abortion, so let us make it legal. Instead, let’s kill millions of babies in the name of morality. I do not believe we can sacrifice our faith in God just to be a kinder nation. It just does not make sense to me and yet I see that view being fostered in every article, TV show, movie and talk show. This does not apply only to abortion. It continues on with gay rights, and on down the line. I saw a young actress sneer at the thought of not showing gay lovers on TV and movies. She commented I am a Christian with that sneer. I am sure she thought she was being a moral person.
 
AnAtheist

Hello? Using Einstein’s theory!

Of course using Einstein’s theory, but boldly going where Einstein would not go with his own theory!
 
As to the subject of this thread, here is an interesting remark on public morality without God from no less a personage than Voltaire himself … that darling of atheists everywhere and enemy of the Church to boot!

“The Roman senate was composed of atheists is theory and in practice … who believed in neither a Providence nor a future life; this senate was an assembly of philosophers, of sensualists and ambitious men, all very dangerous, who ruined the republic… It is therefore absolutely necessary for princes and for peoples, that the idea of a Supreme Being, creator, ruler, rewarder, revenger, shall be deeply engraved in people’s minds.”

from Voltaire’s essay “On Atheism.”
 
Another from Voltaire, who saw in religion an antidote to the decay of public morals.

“And I shall always ask you if, when you have lent your money to someone in your society, you want neither your debtor, nor your attorney, nor your judge, to believe in God,”

“On Atheism”
 
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