Moratorium on discussions about same-sex marriage yes or no?

[sauce]

It takes a lot of courage to obey God’s word.
Bible says some thieves enter through a back gate. Makes sense.

Marriage is meant to produce children. To distort the facts helps no one. Two sames don’t
produce offspring. Sorry. To call the other marriage is not accurate. It’s something else,
but will never be marriage.

Yes. Call a moratorium.

 

[Lucky7]

It takes a lot of courage to obey God’s word.
Bible says some thieves enter through a back gate. Makes sense.

Marriage is meant to produce children. To distort the facts helps no one. Two sames don’t
produce offspring. Sorry. To call the other marriage is not accurate. It’s something else,
but will never be marriage.

Yes. Call a moratorium.

If I’m taking your first comments correctly, I find your post extremely offensive.

As for your comments about how marriage is meant to produce children, I guess an infertile, heterosexual or an elderly couple shouldn’t marry. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with Church teaching about homosexuality, but I find some of the posts here towards Ann completely disrespectful.

Ann…I give you credit for your courage to come here and share with us. I hope you know that not all Catholics hate gays.

 

[sauce]

No. You don’t take it right. The new testament mentions thieves entering through back gates as regards salvation. You’re distorting the mention here. If you are making a sexual reference, it’s you who are doing it. So settle down a bit. I’ve noticed that people on these forums often read into posts. But that’s up to you I guess. You can read anything into anything you want. It doesn’t make it what the person is suggesting.

Still, marriage is between a man and a woman. Period. Or are you all just talking about companionship?? Entirely different story.

 

[Annn]

So, by “sexual attraction” you mean you want to kiss, hug, be close to, hold hands with…etc.". Does this “etc.” include you want to have sex with another woman?

Using a woman’s egg and a surrogate birth mother; *using a sperm donor.

• But becoming “one flesh” is the means God designed for humans to procreate. In using a woman’s egg and a surrogate birth mother, or in using a sperm donor, there is in it absence of the becoming “one flesh” that God designed. Therefore, though as you claimed* they are fairly common among partnered gay folks*, that commonness is not proof that God has changed His design for human procreation. The practice is still a violation of God’s design and will.

Yes, the “etc.” means I want to have sex with women. Does sexual attraction mean something different to you?

As stated previously, I understand what Catholic folks think about gay partnerships and parenting, and I respect our differences and am by no means flamboyant or aggressive about my queerness, but I am not Catholic and do not ascribe to these beliefs myself.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I hope you know that not all Catholics hate gays.

I think you are confused. The Church teaches us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I have seen nowhere where anyone espouses hate of those who are gay. The gay life style on the other hand is not natural and is sinful. To reject it and not condone it is not to hate those who are involved in it. We pray for these, not condone their actions and say “how brave they are because they openly admit it.”

 

[Lucky7]

I think you are confused. The Church teaches us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I have seen nowhere where anyone espouses hate of those who are gay. The gay life style on the other hand is not natural and is sinful. To reject it and not condone it is not to hate those who are involved in it. We pray for these, not condone their actions and say “how brave they are because they openly admit it.”

No, I’m not confused at all. I know that the teaching is to love the sinner, hate the sin. Unfortunately, that is not the tone that comes across in this thread…some posters are being less than charitable to the gay posters in this thread. To respond “Riiiiiight” to a gay person who says that gay relationships have more to them than just sex is completely rude and ignorant. To question a lesbian as to what she means by “sexually attractive”…are you kidding me?

 

[MarieCB]

So, you, a woman is sexually attracted to other women. By “sexually attracted” you mean you simply admire the way they dress, the way they look? Or what do you mean when you say you are “sexually attracted” to other women?

You also want to raise kids with another woman? You mean to say the two of you would adopt a kid? But the purpose of marriage is basically for procreation.What possibility there is for two women to become “one flesh” and procreate?

Well, if YOU say you’re sexually attracted to women (if you’re a man), what do YOU mean by it? It’s like when my teenage son tells me “Yea, Mom, I like her. I mean, I LIKE like her.” The definition of “sexually attraction” seems pretty obvious to me. In many ways, “sexual attraction” almost seems like a misnomer, because it involves so much more than just sex.

Not everyone accepts the idea that the primary purpose of marriage is for procreation. And, as has been said, if that’s “the” reason for marriage, then no one should be allowed to get married unless they’re young and capable of having children, and married people should stop having sex once the wife hits menopause.

 

[agangbern]

Yes, the “etc.” means I want to have sex with women. Does sexual attraction mean something different to you?

As stated previously, I understand what Catholic folks think about gay partnerships and parenting, and I respect our differences and am by no means flamboyant or aggressive about my queerness, but I am not Catholic and do not ascribe to these beliefs myself.

Honestly, I did not know what gays meant when they say they are sexually attracted to their same kind. That is why I asked you, a gay according to you. And now I know, although I still don’t know whether your meaning of "sexually attracted" to the same kind is accepted by all who are called gays.

Since as you said you don’t ascribe to Catholic teachings, so be it. It is your own life that you live, with freedom to choose between God or no-god. But if you can do it, remember the prodigal son when darkness starts to fall.

 

[agangbern]

Not everyone accepts the idea that the primary purpose of marriage is for procreation. And, as has been said, if that’s “the” reason for marriage, then no one should be allowed to get married unless they’re young and capable of having children, and married people should stop having sex once the wife hits menopause.

Of course not everyone accepts that idea…Just as not everyone accepts that there is God. But you certainly know that truth does not depend on acceptance by all. Here is what the Church says about the purpose of marriage,

1652 "By its very nature the institution of marriage and married love is ordered* to the procreation and education of the offspring *and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory."160
Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: “It is not good that man should be alone,” and “from the beginning [he] made them male and female”; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: “Be fruitful and multiply.” Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.16
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm#I

Abraham begot a child at the time that he was no longer young through Sarah who was believed to be barren already. Therefore, the seeming impossibility to procreate is not a hindrance to marriage. But the impossibility to procreate in the union of a woman with another woman, or a man with another man, is not simply seeming. It is absolute impossibility never ever before broken by a miracle.

 

[Bennie_P]

Excussssss me!!! but this thread is not about if same sex-marriage per se or if homoseaxuality is right or wrong. But about if a moratorium on discussions about the subject on same-sex marriage would be a good thing or not.

The hijacking of this thread to promote the “gay” agenda is one of the reasons way I wanted to have this discussion. And it goes to prove my point.

 

[Bennie_P]

I’m gay. I’m out of the closet. I date and have a rather normal dating life. If I were to count all the discussions on gay sex that I’ve had in the past two years, the vast majority have occurred on these forums. Conservative Christians are the ones that are obsessed with it, not your average out gay person.

Excussssss me!!! but this thread is not about if same sex-marriage per se or if homoseaxuality is right or wrong. But about if a moratorium on discussions about the subject on same-sex marriage would be a good thing or not.

The hijacking of this thread to promote the “gay” agenda is one of the reasons way I wanted to have this discussion. And it goes to prove my point.

Exalt this thread is not about your gayness? But as self-center gay people go, many seem to be sure to make sure we know all about it, this goes directly to my point. You accuss “Conservative” Chiristians being obsessed but you are the one which has to point who is “gay” and who is not. The average ‘gay’ person doesn’t go to Christian forums to debate the big bad Christian to set them right…

 

[edwest2]

Speaking as a gay person, it’s quite clear that conservative Christians talk way more about gay sex than actual out-of-the-closet, comfortable gay people. There’s waaaaaay more to gay relationships than sex.

That’s not true. I’ve been to gay web sites. I’ve seen the ads.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

There should be a ban on same-sex marriage discussions. It’s obvious that most of the threads here on the subject are a form of advertising for ‘the cause.’ That’s all.

I know people who are gay. I had a friend who was bisexual until she gave her life to Christ.

But the moment people come here and say “approve our sin,” whatever it is, we need to call it a sin. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people should certainly feel welcome to discuss other things here. But the moment anyone brings up the idea of ‘give me approval to sin,’ we should say no and explain why.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Annn]

There should be a ban on same-sex marriage discussions. It’s obvious that most of the threads here on the subject are a form of advertising for ‘the cause.’ That’s all.

I know people who are gay. I had a friend who was bisexual until she gave her life to Christ.

But the moment people come here and say “approve our sin,” whatever it is, we need to call it a sin. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people should certainly feel welcome to discuss other things here. But the moment anyone brings up the idea of ‘give me approval to sin,’ we should say no and explain why.

Peace,
Ed

Hi, Ed. Could you please point out where anyone on this thread asked for approval? Thanks.

 

[edwest2]

Hi Ann,

This thread is about the majority of threads arguing for same-sex marriage. And regarding all of the voting, for and against, that’s been going on recently. I’ve been to the gay web sites. Gay people do not want what they call “separate but equal,” they want what they call marriage on the exact same level as heterosexual marriage. So, they are looking for the approval of Catholics, and everybody else.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Annn]

Hi Ann,

This thread is about the majority of threads arguing for same-sex marriage. And regarding all of the voting, for and against, that’s been going on recently. I’ve been to the gay web sites. Gay people do not want what they call “separate but equal,” they want what they call marriage on the exact same level as heterosexual marriage. So, they are looking for the approval of Catholics, and everybody else.

Peace,
Ed

Actually, as a gay person, I would very much disagree with your assessment. Despite what you may learn on “gay websites” (which ones do you mean? I don’t even know what you’re referring to), the “gay community” is a very large, very diverse group of people. Some gay folks are out fighting for marriage, others don’t think it’s an important issue at all. Many gay people don’t want to participate in marriage as an institution whether or not it’s legal.

Perhaps instead of visiting “gay websites” where you apparently are exposed to advertisements you don’t agree with (same thing as “straight websites”, I guess), I’d suggest getting to know some queer folks around you and learning that we’re not a monolithic entity. For example, I’ve met some queer folks on this forum who are out as gay but have been celibate their entire lives because they follow the teachings of the Church.

 

[edwest2]

Actually, as a gay person, I would very much disagree with your assessment. Despite what you may learn on “gay websites” (which ones do you mean? I don’t even know what you’re referring to), the “gay community” is a very large, very diverse group of people. Some gay folks are out fighting for marriage, others don’t think it’s an important issue at all. Many gay people don’t want to participate in marriage as an institution whether or not it’s legal.

Perhaps instead of visiting “gay websites” where you apparently are exposed to advertisements you don’t agree with (same thing as “straight websites”, I guess), I’d suggest getting to know some queer folks around you and learning that we’re not a monolithic entity. For example, I’ve met some queer folks on this forum who are out as gay but have been celibate their entire lives because they follow the teachings of the Church.

Those advocating same sex marriage obviously have no desire to be celibate. Don’t you get that? Celibacy is not the issue. First, gay groups systematically went from state to state and had anti-sodomy laws struck down, then they said that wanted gay sex legalized under the name marriage.

Peace,
Ed

 

[mdgspencer]

I know all the threads about gay life on Catholci answers are highjacked like this one. I have found this annoying but I have learned however to accept this inevitability. I still think that it is good to hear Catholics affirm the Churches convictions in this area just as in other areas. As I said before, if we don’t hear people affirm the Church’s convictions when it comes to gay life, where will we hear it? In the press or broadcast media? Not at all.

 

[Bennie_P]

Actually, as a gay person, I would very much disagree with your assessment. Despite what you may learn on “gay websites” (which ones do you mean? I don’t even know what you’re referring to), the “gay community” is a very large, very diverse group of people. Some gay folks are out fighting for marriage, others don’t think it’s an important issue at all. Many gay people don’t want to participate in marriage as an institution whether or not it’s legal.

Perhaps instead of visiting “gay websites” where you apparently are exposed to advertisements you don’t agree with (same thing as “straight websites”, I guess), I’d suggest getting to know some queer folks around you and learning that we’re not a monolithic entity. For example, I’ve met some queer folks on this forum who are out as gay but have been celibate their entire lives because they follow the teachings of the Church.

Annn this thread isn’t about if Ed or any other Christian needs to, or if they do know homosexuals. This is about is an idea of moratorium on discussions about same-sex marriage yes or no? Once again the a Gay appoligist comes to push the agenda of the “gay” rights movement, trying to tell those that oppose immorality they are wrong about their ideas of “gay” people. When the topic isn’t about the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality, but is right to restrict the discussion about same-sex marriage to protect the underage members from overbearing ‘gay’ appoligists.

Annn do you really know any Christians or do you just hang out with 'gay" people? Question sounds absurd doesn’t it? So does you assuming that people that oppose same sex marraige don’t know 'gay" people. As for myself I know not only a few, but I been to their funerals, hired them for employment, help secure employment for them, taught them how to prepare for employment, how to find safe and afordable housing, secure food and served their needs in poor health and financial need. Your assumptions of the oppostion to same-sex marriage just goes to show your bigotry and prejudice against Judeo-Christiniaty and the teachings of the Church. And you are off topic - attempting to highjack the thread.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

The topic of this thread is whether there should be a moratorium on the discussion of same sex marriage. Please limit the discussion here to this topic. There are numerous other threads where other aspects of gay life are discussed. Go there if you feel the need to post something that doesn’t fit the topic of this thread. Future off topic posts in this thread will be deleted without notice.