More bleak Catholic School News

[ChristIsLord]

The economic argument utterly misses the point. The US catholic school system is the largest private school system in the world and it was originally built by catholics who were on THE lowest rung of America’s social ladder. Today catholics are among the richer of America’s cultural groups and all we can do is whine about the cost?

the schools back then were primarily free and supported by the parishoners of the church which were typically huge congregations. when i lived in brooklyn it cost me $8,000 to send my son to catholic school for two years and he still didn’t know how to do the sign of the cross properly or any of his prayers. the high schools started at $10,000 and went up from there. most people simply can’t take that cost on today, add in the church routinely having to pay hundreds of millions for pedophile priests and they’ll be more closures every year.

 

[manualman]

the schools back then were primarily free and supported by the parishoners of the church which were typically huge congregations…

Nothing is free. Anybody who says otherwise is a scamming you. Tuition used to be nominal because the people’s faith lead them to put FAAAR more of their income in the basket than they do today.

Don’t kid yourself: even if nuns worked for room and board it was as expensive then as it is today to buy bricks, boilers, windows, roofing, books, fuel oil and so on.

You are, however, correct that some schools are catholic in name only just like some people are. Do your homework first.

 

[HouseArrest]

The economic argument utterly misses the point. The US catholic school system is the largest private school system in the world and it was originally built by catholics who were on THE lowest rung of America’s social ladder. Today catholics are among the richer of America’s cultural groups and all we can do is whine about the cost?

It is NOT about the cost. It is about the mission. For my entire life, the focus of catholic school marketing has been about how good their test scores are, how many go on to great colleges, etc. Academics are great, don’t get me wrong. But they aren’t why our impoverished forefathers built them from nothing.

100 years ago the US culture was OVERTLY hostile to catholicism. There was no subtlety. We were called papists and if we sent our kids to the public schools they were indoctrinated with protestant ideas. In a way, those ham-fisted ‘Know-Nothings’ did us a favor in that they couldn’t be overlooked or ignored. Catholics said “You are NOT going to brainwash my kids” and simply built their own school system that taught academics in a CATHOLIC environment.

Catholics today just don’t seem to notice that we live in a culture that is JUST AS HOSTILE to our faith as the culture 100 years ago. It is just a much more subtle hostility. And catholics today are mostly unaware of just how much our culture is influencing us and our children. They don’t perceive the value of placing their children in an authentically catholic environment (and to be fair, an awful lot of catholic schools don’t put much effort into providing it).

Catholic schools will thrive anew when the Church again does a better job of prophetically telling the flock of the dangers present in our secular culture and the catholic schools reclaim their primary purpose of providing an oasis of authentic catholic culture and learning in the desert of this fallen world.

Exactly my point with the list of reasons families are leaving our (truly) Catholic school. It’s at the bottom of the list of importance.

 

[Gertabelle]

After reading al these posts about the lack of Catholicism in some “Catholic” schools, I am more thankful than ever that our local Catholic school is truly orthodox and has placed teaching of the faith at the heart of everything they do. Because my own 12 years of Catholic education were so good, and I haven’t been near a Catholic school since 1985, I hadn’t realized how bad the things had become at some schools.

With regard to the low pay and few benefits for Catholic school teachers, I couldn’t agree more! I am a teacher in a public school for this very reason – I couldn’t possibly afford to support myself and my son on that salary. I have to realize that the teacher my son will have next year in kindergarten will be paid a fraction of what I will be making. We may have to make substantial Christmas and Easter and birthday and other feast day gifts to his teacher in the way of gift cards (or airline tickets, or gas vouchers!).

Gertie

 

[Kaninchen]

It’s curious really, in the UK (which is one of the least religiously observant societies around), Catholic and Church of England schools are part of the general ‘state school’ provision - teachers’ salaries and most capital costs being found by the state in other words - so they’re ‘free at the point of provision’.

They also tend to be subject to high demand for places (including from Muslim parents).

 

[manualman]

Kaninchen,

Somehow here in America, things have gone awry on the religious freedom front. American public schools are typically funded via property taxes levied by the local school district. Those of us who choose private schools must pay the ENTIRE cost of the private schooling AND pay the enormous property tax burden placed by the public school district (i.e. we pay double).

The public school system and their teachers unions have been very successful here in opposing any sort of subsidy for parents who choose private school systems, even though it is clearly in their financial best interest for those private schools to continue (perhaps you’ve heard us speak of ‘vouchers’ from time to time). Since it is always a financial disaster for the public schools when a private school closes and its kids pour into the local public schools, increasing enrollment with NO increase in funding base, many of us conclude that their opposition to subsidies for private school parents are really about pride, power and control over education. But this is really a whole other topic that I’d be glad to start elsewhere for you if you are interested.

 

[Kaninchen]

Somehow here in America, things have gone awry on the religious freedom front. American public schools are typically funded via property taxes levied by the local school district. Those of us who choose private schools must pay the ENTIRE cost of the private schooling AND pay the enormous property tax burden placed by the public school district (i.e. we pay double).

In the UK, ‘public schools’ are the old (often very old) private, fee-paying schools, the rest are ‘private schools’ of more modern foundation or ‘state schools’. Originally, the Church of England had control of the school system. Then, in the early 19th Century, the ‘Non Conformists’ (non Church of England Protestants) rebelled and demanded non-religious schools so their children would not be indoctrinated with Anglicanism. In turn, the Catholics demanded that, if the Church of England could have its own schools (at local property tax-payers’ expense like the CE schools and the non-religious schools) then so should they - so the UK ended up with state schools that are religiously affiliated and non-religiously affiliated.

If you ‘go private’ you have to pay your taxes and your fees (we know) just as in the US.

I was just really raising the irony of the situation - the citizenry of US is much more ‘religiously observant’ but the state is far less easy-going on some important aspects of the citizen’s religious experience and aspirations than the irreligious UK - where even non-religious state schools have a daily act of worship (children can be opted-out if you don’t want them to attend).

The ‘voucher’ argument I’ve heard both here and when we lived in the US!

 

[manualman]

Gotcha. Just making sure you knew the context here since you’re “European, very.”

 

[Gertabelle]

…it is always a financial disaster for the public schools when a private school closes and its kids pour into the local public schools, increasing enrollment with NO increase in funding base,

Although I am a public school teacher, and a union member (though NOT supporting the union’s political agenda!), I agree with your comments about the funding of public schools and the way the unions are consistently fighting vouchers. It’s heartbreaking, fear-based, and self-concerned. I’m always embarassed when the unions (local, state, and national) start speaking “for me” and saying things in complete opposition to my own beliefs. But I digress…

I just wanted to point out that in fact, we only receive funding for the students who actually attend our schools. That is, at least here in Colorado, if you have 375 kids in a school, you receive a per capita amount for those kids and no one else. We have “count days” every year in October and we bribe the children with all kinds of surprises and goodies to get them to come to school those three (+/-) days. If they don’t show, we don’t get the funding for them.

So if a private school closed and a hundred more kids showed up, we would, in fact, receive funding for them. Not sure about the timeline, but that’s the way it works.

Gertie

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

I agree with this, too. As to “opening checkbooks,” I know from personal experience (having sent my own girls to Catholic schools from K-12, despite the expense), that parochial schools (vs. independent Catholic schools) have a lousy history of significant financial aid. In my region, a family is eligible for certain “extreme” financial aid (from Catholic agencies) only if you are already practically homeless (living significantly below the national poverty line). The individual schools usually give around 20% aid against tuition, which is not enough to make a difference, especially for a family with more than one school-age child.

This is a real social justice opportunity for Catholics, whether single and well off, or whether parents whose children have already graduated: Let’s start a Sponsor-a-Catholic-student campaign. Token monthly contributions by even 20 parishioners with a local school could support one student in need, or subsidize a couple of students who otherwise would not be able to afford it.

Personally, I think I will approach some of our local pastors with this idea, so it can be published in the bulletin. I do so with the intention of contributing something, myself.

bigshouldersfund.org/

This is an organization in Chicago “to provide support to the Catholic schools in the neediest areas of inner-city Chicago.”

 

[BobCatholic]

Has there ever been a study done on the correlation between orthodoxy of a (arch)diocese and the number of closings?

I would think that an orthodox diocese would have fewer or no closings of Catholic schools, than dioceses of lesser orthodoxy.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

Has there ever been a study done on the correlation between orthodoxy of a (arch)diocese and the number of closings?

I would think that an orthodox diocese would have fewer or no closings of Catholic schools, than dioceses of lesser orthodoxy.

On an entirely different topic: do you know of any studies of a similar nature but regarding priestly and religious formation? I heard a claim that more orthodoxy in a diocese = more priestly/religious vocations, but the info was second-hand.

 

[Elizabeth502]

bigshouldersfund.org/

This is an organization in Chicago “to provide support to the Catholic schools in the neediest areas of inner-city Chicago.”

I appreciate your sincere efforts, Lotus Cars. However, the link you directed me to (I assumed as an example, since I am not in the Chicago area) is not a program I would seek to duplicate necessarily, in my region. The brochure highlights the positives of aid going to so many non-Catholics. Rather, my intent was to keep Catholics in Catholic schools. The Chicago effort appears to have an economic focus, with poverty apart from religion being the emphasis.

 

[barb_finnegan]

Check out: napcis.org/

This is the national association of private catholic and independent schools.

These are schools that teach sound Catholic doctrine but are not affiliated with any parish.

I’m sure there are many great Catholic Schools, but there is also a growing number of Catholics who want more solid faith formation and a higher academic standard from their schools. They also want schools that are affordable to large families.

There is also a huge Catholic home schooling movement.

Catholicsm, like much of America, was flooded with liberal ideology in the 60s and 70s. This damaged many once great Catholic schools.

There is a revival in the Catholic faith taking place in America today.

How about the schools run by the Ann Arbor and Nashville Dominican Sisters?

 

[manualman]

I just wanted to point out that in fact, we only receive funding for the students who actually attend our schools. That is, at least here in Colorado, if you have 375 kids in a school, you receive a per capita amount for those kids and no one else. We have “count days” every year in October and we bribe the children with all kinds of surprises and goodies to get them to come to school those three (+/-) days. If they don’t show, we don’t get the funding for them.

So if a private school closed and a hundred more kids showed up, we would, in fact, receive funding for them. Not sure about the timeline, but that’s the way it works.

Gertie

So the state administers school funding for you, not local property tax levies by the local school district? Does the state set property and income taxes based on the number of total kids in school? If not, your state’s budget problem merely gets transferred from the local district to the state. The state has a fixed tax rate, so a fixed income to spread amongst all the kids. Take the private school kids and send 'em to public schools and the state must either raise taxes or spend at a deficit to maintain the per child funding level. Either way, us private school parents are subsidizing the public school system TWICE (taxes and private tuition).

 

[Gertabelle]

So the state administers school funding for you, not local property tax levies by the local school district? Does the state set property and income taxes based on the number of total kids in school? If not, your state’s budget problem merely gets transferred from the local district to the state. The state has a fixed tax rate, so a fixed income to spread amongst all the kids. Take the private school kids and send 'em to public schools and the state must either raise taxes or spend at a deficit to maintain the per child funding level. Either way, us private school parents are subsidizing the public school system TWICE (taxes and private tuition).

Now you’re getting a little too specific for ignorant brain So honestly, I can’t answer your questions. My point was that the schools here are funded by enrollment in the school/district, not enrollment in all schools (public and private) in the city, county, or state. The per capita amount is a set amount for each year, not a number set after we see how many kids need to be funded in the public schools.

I can also tell you that districts do place “bond issues” on the ballots to raise money for repairing buildings and the like.

As for you private school parents – I am soon to be one of them myself, thank you very much. And my parents also had to pay TWICE for the whole 12 years I attended Catholic schools. I understand where you’re coming from, and I did not in any way mean to imply that I agree with the current system of funding (and not funding).

Incidentally, although the union leadership is very vocal and anti-vouchers and all that, the teachers in those unions are not necessarily so. I’ve met very few who “tow the party line.” And thanks be to God, here in Colorado we passed a law last November barring unions from financially supporting any political cause!!! Can hardly wait to see how they try to get around that one with my union dues…

Gertie