More Discussion of LDS & Christian Tithing

[garyo49]

Thanks , Lori. This is going to be an interesting thread.

I would appreciate any corrections. This is only the information I have been able to accumulate.

Ten percent of minimal subsistence is too much. Isn’t it better to send your kids to college than to participate in temple rituals? It is still a deep cut into the John Brown family income, as compared to the Mitt Romney family income.

The temple Recommend is a PURCHASE, because it is dependent on paying tithes, which is defined as 10% of one’s income. The money spent on that purchase should therefore be considered taxable. The LDS church, further, should be taxed for income on the sale of the Temple Recommends. That money is sent to SLC, and then filtered back to the local LDS community-- as a tax dodge, because it is considered a “gift” to the local LDS.

Most churches also give of their excess for charity. This does not happen with the LDS church. That comes from fast-offerings, above the ten percent. Originally, tithes, as stated in the D&C, were to be used to help the poor members, but this was forgotten long ago.

Other churches, as a rule, consider any offerings to be free will. And any preacher who reminds congregants of their responsibility generally does so to the whole congregation. Only in a crisis would he go to the most wealthy members to ask for donations for something like repairing a leaky roof.

I wish I would never have seen this thread because there isn’t anything that burns me up like Mormon extortion, I mean tithing. Anyway compare this to Mormon tithing. Remember Mormon tithing is ten percent of your GROSS income. Last summer because of the economy we were falling behind with collections. Instead of a homily on donations or big speech about it, Father casually mentioned at the end of Mass that we should notice the bulletin insert. The bulletin insert simply stated that we were falling behind and that if the ones who were already donating would just keep donating what they were and everyone that wasn’t donating would just put in $5.00 a week we would be just fine. What a difference!! Oh, btw the LDS church just opened their 2 billion dollar mall in Salt Lake. They said no tithing money was used for that. Just think what two billion dollars would have done for the worlds underclass.

I have a suggestion for the LDS Church. If you truly are Gods one and only church and Jesus Christ sits at the head of it, instead of pouring all of that profit back into your already bulging pockets so you can just buy more real estate and ranches in Hawaii, you could do the Christ like thing and use those profits for the worlds poor. How about it?

 

[garyo49]

Welcome home, Gary! Isn’t it grand?

It is Paul. There was nothing like putting the word " former" before the word Mormon. Now I need to do something about my wife. But, I’m sure pigs will fly first.

 

[TheExorcist]

Just think what two billion dollars would have done for the worlds underclass.

HEY! They use that tithing money so all those poor people can have chapels so they can go and be bored three hours a week!

When I handed my last check in, about 2 months ago, I told the member of the bishopric “this is my LAST mall payment”. He just kinda chuckled

 

[TAO1]

For us, it is a commandment to pay tithing… and we need to pay tithing, in order to be worthy to attend the temple. So generally, tithing settlement helps ensure this is happening. I guess it also is a friendly reminder which helps you be accountable to the Lord.

Best of Wishes,
-TAO

 

[RebeccaJ]

The temple Recommend is a PURCHASE, because it is dependent on paying tithes, which is defined as 10% of one’s income. The money spent on that purchase should therefore be considered taxable. The LDS church, further, should be taxed for income on the sale of the Temple Recommends. That money is sent to SLC, and then filtered back to the local LDS community-- as a tax dodge, because it is considered a “gift” to the local LDS.

For us, it is a commandment to pay tithing… and we need to pay tithing, in order to be worthy to attend the temple. So generally, tithing settlement helps ensure this is happening. I guess it also is a friendly reminder which helps you be accountable to the Lord.

Best of Wishes,
-TAO

 

[TAO1]

Rebecca, church income isn’t taxable, regardless of whether it’s considered a purchase or not. irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-023.html

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, church income isn’t taxable, regardless of whether it’s considered a purchase or not. irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-023.html

 

[TAO1]

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t think it should be taxed. Still, looks like a purchase and not a charitable donation.

“and she’s buying a stairway to heavennnnn”

 

[TAO1]

I don’t think it should be taxed. Still, looks like a purchase and not a charitable donation.

“and she’s buying a stairway to heavennnnn”

You can believe that if you want to =p. In my experience though, that hasn’t been the case.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You can believe that if you want to =p. In my experience though, that hasn’t been the case.

I’m sure you feel charitable, and enjoy tax deductions! Nothing wrong with that. Just, tying it so close to something you believe is required for your ultimate eternal destiny…:tsktsk:

Screams RUN, to me.

 

[TAO1]

I’m sure you feel charitable, and enjoy tax deductions! Nothing wrong with that. Just, tying it so close to something you believe is required for your ultimate eternal destiny…:tsktsk:

Screams RUN, to me.

Lol, it’s not just 10% of my income. I guess I wish to take the statement “whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it” a bit more than just literally. So I guess you could say it’s also time, service, effort… and especially faith. It all goes in, that it does. =D

 

[RebeccaJ]

Lol, it’s not just 10% of my income. I guess I wish to take the statement “whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it” a bit more than just literally. So I guess you could say it’s also time, service, effort… and especially faith. It all goes in, that it does. =D

So, you view your Salvation as an exchange? If you give enough (10% + change) to your church you are saved?

 

[TAO1]

So, you view Salvation as an exchange?

LDS look at salvation a bit differently than Catholics do.

In LDS theology, every person is saved from ‘physical death’, that is, they are resurrected. Every one is judged. And almost all overcome spiritual death by obtaining faith in Christ on Earth, or in Spirit Prison (missionary work after death).

Exaltation, on the other hand, does require obedience to the commandments of the Lord.

If you give enough (10% + change) to your church you are saved?

Nope, that wouldn’t be correct.

 

[RebeccaJ]

LDS look at salvation a bit differently than Catholics do.

In LDS theology, every person is saved from ‘physical death’, that is, they are resurrected. Every one is judged. And almost all overcome spiritual death by obtaining faith in Christ on Earth, or in Spirit Prison (missionary work after death).

Exaltation, on the other hand, does require obedience to the commandments of the Lord.

So why did you tie a quote regarding salvation to your beliefs regarding tithing, when you aren’t talking about salvation?

BTW, Scripture does not separate salvation from eternal destiny. One cannot be saved by Jesus Christ, and then require the result of salvation to be independent of salvation. The result of salvation is eternal life in the presence of God.

So you pay for the results of salvation? Did Jesus not pay enough for you?

Or, do you tie your sacrifice to His?

 

[TAO1]

So why did you tie a quote regarding salvation to your beliefs regarding tithing, when you aren’t talking about salvation?

That’s why I said I was taking a bit further than literally. I was talking about losing myself in service to Christ. And losing myself in faith and obedience to him. That sort of thing =).

BTW, Scripture does not separate salvation from eternal destiny. One cannot be saved by Jesus Christ, and then require the result of salvation to be independent of salvation. The result of salvation is eternal life in the presence of God.

I would disagree. There are several verses which I believe separate salvation from eternal destiny. The verse LDS often use to show this is 1 Corinthians 50:40-41.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

It can also be seen in 2 Corinthians 12:2.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Now, whether Catholics interpret the verses the same way we do, I don’t know, but that is how we interpret them.

So you pay for the results of salvation?

As I said, no.

Did Jesus not pay enough for you?

Of course Jesus payed enough for me. But, the commandments aren’t there to be ignored either.

Or, do you tie your sacrifice to His?

We all tie our sacrifice to his; that is what I think it means to lose yourself… it’s gratitude =).

 

[CHRISTINE77]

For us, it is a commandment to pay tithing… and we need to pay tithing, in order to be worthy to attend the temple. So generally, tithing settlement helps ensure this is happening. I guess it also is a friendly reminder which helps you be accountable to the Lord.

Best of Wishes,
-TAO

Where is there a commandment for tithing? Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10 percent of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle/Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). In fact, the Old Testament Law required multiple tithes which would have pushed the total to around 23.3 percent, not the 10 percent which is generally considered the tithe amount today. Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give (James 1:5). Above all, all tithes and offerings should be given with pure motives and an attitude of worship to God and service to the body of Christ. “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

from:gotquestions.org/tithing-Christian.html

 

[RebeccaJ]

That’s why I said I was taking a bit further than literally. I was talking about losing myself in service to Christ. And losing myself in faith and obedience to him. That sort of thing =).

Personal opinion/practice then?

I would disagree. There are several verses which I believe separate salvation from eternal destiny. The verse LDS often use to show this is 1 Corinthians 50:40-41.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

It can also be seen in 2 Corinthians 12:2.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Neither of those say anything about salvation being separate from eternal destiny.

Of course Jesus payed enough for me. But, the commandments aren’t there to be ignored either.

Where did Jesus command tithing?

We all tie our sacrifice to his; that is what I think it means to lose yourself… it’s gratitude =).

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean saying, “Thanks Jesus!”, with real sincerity, means you have lost yourself?

 

[Patavium]

How about mormons claim to direct ancestry to the apostles?

youtube.com/watch?v=f5x0wjT9Uq8 see 2:40

 

[Jerusha]

How about Mormons’ claim to direct ancestry to the apostles?

youtube.com/watch?v=f5x0wjT9Uq8 see 2:40

And Jesus. According to the JoD, the early Mormons in Utah taught that Jeus and the apostles were polygamists. That is the reason why the early Christians were so persecuted. The apostasy began when the last of the polygamist Apostles were killed off.

Of course Modern Mormons don’t teach that, and deny it when asked. It just sort of fell by the wayside.

But this is a derail. Let us get back to the modern LDS church, and tithing.