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More Evidence Emerges Elizabeth Warren Lied About Being Fired for Pregnancy
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Nope. This still does not show that she lied when she said the principal let her go. In the context of this interview, the precise actions of the principal at that time are not relevant. It is not surprising that she left them out here.
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Horton
Guest
So it is clear that you wouldn’t believe any evidence out there that proves she is lying. Those were her own words recorded in an interview 10 or years ago. She was teaching and had to stop as she didn’t have the proper qualification. She then went to grad school, took some courses, decided it wasn’t her deal, had a baby and stayed home.
There is nothing in her comments stating she was teaching at the same time she was pregnant and was fired for it. Her words state she was in grad school, stopped, had a baby and stayed home for a couple of years.
There is nothing in her comments stating she was teaching at the same time she was pregnant and was fired for it. Her words state she was in grad school, stopped, had a baby and stayed home for a couple of years.
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dvdjs
Guest
No. It is clear that you have provided none.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Your “evidence” is all negative. “She *didn’t” say this. She didn’t say that." Evidence for lying is quite strict. You have to show that what she said was not true. In this case it is very hard to do, but that is not her fault. The comment about not having the proper education courses is not inconsistent with her story. She was initially given an OK for a second year on an “emergency certificate”. Perhaps she wanted to move up in status, and saw the forced departure as an opportunity to do just that. There really is no problem here.
What I would take as evidence is a statement from the principal saying that he never suggested she leave. And even then I would want to weigh that with the obvious motivation he would have for saying that.
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dvdjs
Guest
If you would like evidence of her being pregnant at the time she was engaged as a teacher you can look at the birth of her children and the records of her employment that have been publicized.
If you would like independent evidence of the the policy against visibly pregnant women in the classroom, you can read the statement of fellow women teachers in the school at the time.
The evidence is clear and compelling.
That is second hand at best.
Can you produce the actual policy?
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Horton
Guest
Once again
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dvdjs
Guest
How is that second hand? Women who worked there at the time affirmed the policy.
What is your basis for denying their testimony? Do you have contrary evidence?
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But we don’t have the policy.
We only have what some claim it to be.
I have no reason to exclude or include their testimony.
So I need a reason to believe them.
The actual policy would be a good place to start.
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dvdjs
Guest
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
What you need is a reason to disbelieve Elizabeth Warren, and no such reason has been given. If you do a little reading about the position of women in the workforce who got pregnant in the 1970’s you would see that it was common for women to be “strongly encouraged” to leave their jobs when they got pregnant. Treating this premise as if it was something brand new is a waste of time.dvdjs:
I have no reason to exclude or include their testimony.
So I need a reason to believe them.
She has been dishonest in the past.
I have sufficient reason to demand evidence rather than take her word.
So it isn’t a policy at all…?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
You can demand whatever you want. But you don’t have evidence to positively say she is lying. The most you can say truthfully is that you doubt her story. However I find her story to me a nothing burger, because what happened to her was happening to many many women at the time. She is not special in this regard.LeafByNiggle:
She has been dishonest in the past.
I have sufficient reason to demand evidence rather than take her word.
If you mean an official written policy, no, that would not be expected of something like this. It was just done.
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dvdjs
Guest
It would be dishonest to claim the context of my questions were not about the written policy.
I made it very clear that I wanted to see the policy. One cannot readily see something that is not written down.
It was then made very clear that these women affirmed the policy.
So I am expecting a link or a quote from the policy that obviously exists based upon what has been provided this far.
Leaf correctly understoodbwhat I was looking for, and specified that it was ‘just done’.
I made it very clear that I wanted to see the policy. One cannot readily see something that is not written down.
It was then made very clear that these women affirmed the policy.
So I am expecting a link or a quote from the policy that obviously exists based upon what has been provided this far.
Leaf correctly understoodbwhat I was looking for, and specified that it was ‘just done’.
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Cathoholic
Guest
LeafByNiggle . . .
If a school was fortunate enough to have a speech pathologist, you did not flippantly fire them.
Women go INTO Speech Pathology for this reason in part sometimes (they can get employment almost anywhere geographically that they want. They make many of their own proverbial “rules” – “I can give you 20 hours a week max.”).
They can also frequently switch in and out of part time due to their advantage of scarcity. (Many women go into areas like audiology and dental hygenics for some of the same reasons.)
Speech Pathologists are in short supply even now and can often name where they will work. That was even more true back then.
Not to Speech Pathologists and Speech Therapists it wasn’t.
If a school was fortunate enough to have a speech pathologist, you did not flippantly fire them.
Women go INTO Speech Pathology for this reason in part sometimes (they can get employment almost anywhere geographically that they want. They make many of their own proverbial “rules” – “I can give you 20 hours a week max.”).
They can also frequently switch in and out of part time due to their advantage of scarcity. (Many women go into areas like audiology and dental hygenics for some of the same reasons.)
Speech Pathologists are in short supply even now and can often name where they will work. That was even more true back then.
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dvdjs
Guest
The suggestion of dishonesty is uncharitable and unfortunate. I request that you edit your post.
You entered into a conversation that I was having with another poster about evidence supporting Warren’s claims regarding her loss of employment owing to her pregnancy. That evidence included the testimony of people subject to and knowledgeable about this policy.
Policy does not have to be written - a quick google led instantly to this:
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-an-employer-s-policies-have-to-be-written-in--2060760.html
There was no reason to think that my use of “policy” suggested that it was written. And while it was clear that you were looking for an official document, it remains unclear why that is needed to dispel the accusation against Warren.
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